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Old July 26, 2014, 03:11 PM   #1
ART338WM
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Need experienced based information

Been looking to buy a AR for long time and by way of my research came across Palmetto Arms and went to their website. while there I found one of their complete AR kits on sale for $499 and am seriously considering buying it, but a couple of things first and a couple of questions.

First I am a complete AR newbee and although I have read extencively about them from when Stoner first created the original AR up to present day AR's but have no practicle hands on experience with them.

I am looking for a entry level AR and wish to use it only for plinking and fun shooting for myself and my young sons, and need to keep my investment reasonable and as close to the $600 make as I can get, can go to as high as $700, but only if Im actually getting something upgrades I actually need that will justify the extra $150-$200 as I could with out doubt use that money else where like on a decent optic for it.

Next, exactly how hard is it to assemble a AR kit, Ive done a fair ammount of my own smithing and I am very hady and capable with guns, but I'm no smith. I have read many times it is quite easy to build your own AR and been told the same by those who have built their own AR's. I will admit I find building my own AR quite a atractive idea.

Lastly does anyone reading this have first hand experience with Palmmeto AR's? I have googled reviews of them and the concensis was over 95% that they make good quality AR's but their CS is a little lacking.

And if this is not a good idea, and I wish to build my own entry level AR that will shoot both 5.56/.223 what are some of the better (I know there are plenty out there) uppers and lowers for a entry level buid. Lastly what is considered the most or among the most reliable after market trigger assemblies for a AR?

Thanks,
Arthur.
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Old July 26, 2014, 03:19 PM   #2
dean1818
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Its relatively easy to complete an AR15

There are MANY youtube videos on how to do it

Welcome to the AR world..........

A heroin addiction would be cheaper......
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Old July 26, 2014, 03:46 PM   #3
velocette
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Art;
As many will tell you, its easy to build an AR. They are essentially simple, modular and difficult to get wrong.
I recognize that you are on a budget, like the rest of us, you want your best bang for your hard earned dollars.
Some ideas and recommendations:
1, Get a good trigger to begin with. The standard AR kit triggers are HORRIBLE. Gritty, heavy, stagey, they don't get much better with use and usually cannot be improved upon safely.
2, Start with an A2 stock. It's durable, stable and will not wobble. It's also inexpensive. Avoid the cheap tacticool folding, expanding, adjustable stocks.
3. Buy a Flat top upper receiver. It is enormously flexible as far a different sights, optics, options etc. You will be shooting this rifle for years and learning as you do. You WILL change your mind about sights as you proceed.
4, Get the best barrel you can possibly afford. Accuracy is a long term benefit. The barrel and trigger together are the bedrock of quality.
5, Pistol grips, barrel covers etc are easily replaced, save your $ there. As you learn, you can upgrade easily.
6, Remember, get a good trigger and barrel from the start, they are the heart of an AR and will pay dividends for years to come.
When it is all said and done, remember that the sting of price is soon forgotten while the agony of poor quality lingers on and on and on.

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Old July 26, 2014, 04:29 PM   #4
Ibmikey
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PSA kits are A+ but make sure it says "premium" as they also offer lesser grade items. You will also need a stripped lower which requires only basic skills..but be careful of launching detents across the planet. The upper will be complete (except for sights) and previously test fired.
Your best bet is to purchase a S&W Sport and have quality and shoot-ability out of the box ($600).
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Old July 26, 2014, 06:03 PM   #5
SHE3PDOG
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The lower is easy to complete with some punches, masking tape, and a small rubber mallet. There are many small parts that will be hard to find if you drop or let them spring out of their respective holes, so be careful with that. The upper is probably easier than the lower as far as nimble fingers, but there are some important details that you don't want to mess up so some people prefer to just buy them instead of building.

While people build them with practically nothing, the right tools help tremendously. I'm far too lazy to find the link, but midwayusa.com has an AR armorer's kit that might come in handy now and down the road when you inevitably start your second build.

Also, PSA makes good stuff. I wouldn't hesitate to buy from them.
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Old July 26, 2014, 07:02 PM   #6
Metal god
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Like stated above . the rifle kits don't come with the stripped lower . You will need a FFL to buy one . That is the part of the rifle that has the serial number .
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...view/id/10446/

As for triggers . I agree that the Mil-Spec ones are not all that great but every lower parts kit and budget AR will come with one so don't worrie about that right away . It is very easy to put a new one in later . They range from $80 to $400 . I don't own one but I here the $120 Rock River NM trigger is one of the best bang for buck triggers out there .

As for PSA . I like there stuff and have used and or built a few guns using there parts . I've never had an issue . You may want to take a look at there new Freedom line . I've not shot them but it appears they put the perfect little plinker together at a great price . SS barrel Mid length gas system . I will own one soon .

Full rifle with MOE furniture $600
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...m-carbine.html

They also have the freedom rifle kits for $450 and $500 but sold out right now
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...rifle-kit.html

I just built a rifle using this kit http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...rifle-kit.html


As it sits the cost is $770 but thats with a Spikes colored lower at California prices and Mapul stock and grip . You could put the same thing to gether for under $700 easy . I'm shooting right around 1moa @ 100yds with hand loads with it

I also recommend a Mid length gas system on any AR you get

If buying from PSA , Wait for what you want . There out of stock items will be back in stock pretty quick . At the same time If what you want is in stock , get it because it will sell out fast
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Last edited by Metal god; July 26, 2014 at 07:14 PM.
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Old July 27, 2014, 01:10 PM   #7
jabraun98
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As many have stated before, PSA makes some good quality stuff! My build consists of a PSA upper, and a mag tactical lower. I have assembled another AR lower by myself in roughly an hour and I'm only 16! Just go on YouTube and watch a few videos to see what you're getting into.
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Old July 27, 2014, 03:36 PM   #8
marine6680
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This may be a bit long... but it may help someone new to ARs


I would say Palmetto State Armory is a good bet for someone looking to build a good rifle without spending a ton of money. As you can often get a full featured rifle with some added improvements for the same cost as the cheaper brands and "sport" versions.

Stick with a basic flat top configuration, and you will come out the cheapest on overall build.



Remember that mil spec is only a standard... not a guarantee of absolute top quality. Mil spec refers to both the dimensions and materials used to make the parts. You can exceed the mil spec for materials used and get better parts, but it will cost you more money. You can go with cheaper parts that use different alloys or steels than the spec, but they can be more prone to breakage. The difference in cost right now is so low, that it makes little sense to me to go with cheaper lower than spec parts.


Mil spec as far as dimensions go is very important, as they help ensure that parts fit together as intended. Its the reason a PSA lower will mate with a BCM upper. (substitute other brands repeat... basically, they should all fit if made to spec)

Watch out for parts labeled "mil spec" but only being mil spec in dimensions only, and not in material used. I have seen "mil spec" buffer/receiver extensions made from cheaper alloys.


Also remember that there are two types of buffer tubes... commercial and mil spec. While you can get both made from proper material, the dimensions are different. Commercial tubes are slightly larger in diameter. While they fit in a standard receiver because the thread size is the same, the way they are made is different, and that is what makes them slightly larger in diameter.

Both will work well, but the mil spec tube has more aftermarket stock compatibility. Magpul makes two versions of their stock to fit both, but other companies may not.



As was mentioned, building the lower is fairly easy with a few basic smithing tools. A few small parts and springs to watch out for though.


The upper isn't difficult but has critical areas that may be difficult to get right without a few extra tools and prep. (Like the barrel/sight alignment, and proper barrel torque) You can buy them fully assembled for about the same cost as parts anyway, so many go that route unless they want to use special barrels or special configurations.

Watch a few different build videos on youtube to get prepared. They may offer a few helpful tips, so watching several can help you identify the critical areas and a good way to get it together easily.



Feel free to get a carbine buffer tube and stock... they work well and allow adjustment to the shooter. They wobble a little, but improved aftermarket versions can be gotten later if you want an upgrade. They are also the most common and available. The rifle stock is good too, and is sometimes cheaper, but I feel it looks odd unless on a rifle with 20 inch or longer barrel.



PSA has a few different quality lines.

Premium which is the best, and usually has a chrome lined hammer forged FN made barrel. So you get a quality barrel.

The standard line has a standard chrome lined barrel. It is a good barrel.

The Ptac line is the budget line... it works but skimps out on quality and materials to cut costs. 7075 alloy is the standard, but the Ptac line may use 6061 alloy to cut cost.



When it comes to reliability of an AR... The barrel, magazine and bolt are the most important parts of the system.

The barrel, for long life and good accuracy. Hammer forged chrome lined barrels from a quality maker (like FN) can be long lasting and have good accuracy. (not match accuracy, but at least MOA often times) A good stainless barrel can provide great accuracy, but I have found quality hammer forged to be so close that the longer barrel life is more a benefit to me.

Magazine, as poor quality mags are the leading cause of malfunctions in ARs. Magpul is the defacto standard for quality mags now, and they are pretty cheap to boot, but other makers have good to excellent mags as well. Good GI style mags work, more so if they use the magpul follower. Lancer makes a good mag too. Just stay away from promag stuff.

The bolt, for general reliability and resistance to breakage. 158 carpenter steel... that is the mil spec, and while you can get better, it costs more. The bolt carrier spec is 8620 steel and chrome lined inside. The gas key on top of the bolt carrier is held on with screws, and the key should be "staked" to prevent them from getting loose. Staking is literally deforming the metal near the screw head to cause it to touch the screw and prevent it from turning.


You also want a full auto profile bolt carrier group (BCG, the bolt and carrier together as an assembly) They weigh a little more and that is beneficial to the function of the rifle. Avoid bolts made of 8620, they are more prone to breakage, some cheap BCG come with both the carrier and bolt made of 8620.



As I said before... 7075 is the standard spec for all aluminum parts in ARs. Some cheap brands use different alloy to lower cost. The only place where 6061 is standard, is aftermarket free float handguards, because the properties of the alloy suit the purpose.



If you are building a rifle with a 16-18 inch barrel... Get an upper with a mid gas system. That is in reference to the length of the gas tube. They tend to be smoother operating and have the proper dwell time for the system to function at its best. Dwell time is the length of time that the gas system is under pressure. It is determined by the length of barrel between the gas port and muzzle. A 16 inch barrel with the shorter carbine length gas system (the one that matches the M4 length) has too much dwell time, and that can cause reliability issues. The extra length of barrel needed to be legal to own by civilians is the culprit here.



Buffer weight... they make different weights to tune the action to the dwell time of the rifle, heavier buffers slow the cycling rate of the bolt, lighter speeds it up... I like to use an H2 buffer when combined with a mid length gas rifle, I find they work with the widest range of ammo, even cheap weak steel cased stuff. If I shot only 5.56 spec ammo, I would use an H3 buffer.


Most build kits come with the lightest buffer. It works, but can cycle too fast for a lot of ammo, and that can wear the parts out faster.

If you get a kit that has a standard buffer, you can actually buy an H3 buffer, and between them, have all the parts to make any of the buffer weights without needing to buy several buffers. All you need is a punch and pliers to remove the rubber stopper.


The weight is controlled by the material used in the 3 small cylindrical weights inside the buffer. A standard has 3 steel weights inside, and an H3 has 3 tungsten weights. If you replace one steel weight with one tungsten, then you have an H buffer... replace two, you have an H2.



Good triggers are nice, but not necessary. PSA offers build kits that do not include the trigger and hammer parts. This kit costs a little less, and is for people who are using replacement triggers.

ALG makes what they call the ACT... it is a mil spec trigger but of better quality, with a better/smoother pull, and is probably one of the best mil spec triggers you can get. They cost less than $50... so its a cheap trigger improvement option.



PSA has specials on Blemish items as well. Nine times out of ten, the blemish is small and hard to see, or otherwise minor. Nothing that effects functionality, so do not be afraid of buying them.



Know that PSA shipping can be a little slow, sometimes a week or two to get shipped. Though I find it is orders that contain items that must be sent to a FFL dealer that take the longest time to ship. (complete pistols/rifles and AR lower receivers) Their customer service can also be slow... emails may take a few days to get answers, and calling them can lead to half an hour on hold. They need more CS reps, but that would cost money, and could affect product pricing... So I am fine with it, as I have never had a problem they didn't fix if I was patient.

Last edited by marine6680; July 27, 2014 at 03:43 PM.
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