new to black powder

rifleman152000 · January 23, 2008, 06:07 PM

recently purchased a cabella's hawken. can you use pyrodex pellets in these? and how about using sabot's?

mykeal · January 23, 2008, 06:35 PM

Yes and yes.

However, sabotted conicals may not shoot well depending on the load and barrel twist rate. Conicals over heavy (100 gr or more) loads in a slow twist barrel (1 in 60 or more) often suffer in accuracy.

Hawg · January 23, 2008, 06:59 PM

I'm thinking all the Cabela's Hawkens(Investarms) are 1:48 twist. I know mine is but it's 20 some odd years old. Mine doesn't shoot sabots for squat, they tumble. Having said that I haven't tried any in 15 years or so, maybe they've improved. Lead conicals work just fine for me and I don't have to clean melted plastic out of my bore.

arcticap · January 24, 2008, 04:22 AM

Sabots work great in my 1 in 48" twist Traditions Deerhunter, but you have to realize that every gun is different. They give very reliable 1st shot accuracy out of a cold, clean barrel which I've never able to get using 90 grains of Pyrodex P shooting a patched round ball.
I use the TC Break-O-Way sabots and a 240 grain lead hollowpoint.

ffrooster · January 24, 2008, 09:41 AM

I have 2 I have an older CVA Hawken that I shoot loose powder and buffalo bullets by hornady, but I only shoot 70 grains of powder, I have killed plenty of deer with it and its accurate at 70 grains of powder you try to step up the powder and accuracy goes out the window.....I also have a CVA Optima I shoot pellets and power belt bullets out of it with 100 grains of powder in 2 pellets....its shoots good ....it took me a few different rounds and powder charges to find the right load for the gun.

Gbro · January 24, 2008, 10:16 AM

Is it a flint or cap lock? I have both.
Flinters only are reliable with good old fashion BP. No substitutes.
On the cap locks, some like the T/C Hawkins, are designed for pellet powder use.
Like what they call fire storm ignition IIRC

rifleman152000 · January 24, 2008, 11:38 AM

thanks for the info guys. someone told me i may want to change to a different nipple, so that i can use a hotter cap if i'm planning on using the pellets. any thoughts on this?
i have to say, that there is alot more to bp shooting than shooting centerfire rifles. for years i've collected ar's, ak's and such. then one day while looking at my collection, it hit me. i don't have one traditional looking rifle. so, 4 years ago my collection began to change bigtime. i now have a number of classic looking rifles. lever actions, bolt actions.....etc. i now think no rifle collection is complete without at least one black powder muzzle loader. this hawken is my first. i am planning on a flintlock kentucky rifle next, and maybe a cap and ball revolver.
with a number of military style rifles, rimfires, air rifles, handguns, shotguns and now the black powder bug biting me i should never get bored with shooting. lol.
i love this sport, and ain't it grand to be an American?

Gbro · January 24, 2008, 12:01 PM

I am not convinced there is any benefit in changing from #11 caps to a musket cap, other than musket caps are much easier to deal with. But as for ignition value i am skeptical.

Pahoo · January 24, 2008, 12:35 PM

I have found a definite advantage to using a musket cap and do convert from a #11 when applicable. Believe the vent is the same although I will have to measure. There is increased ignition. Some B/P substitutes required a hotter spark. Probably too late but also try some FFFG up to and including a .50. Range time is important and what works for one may not work for another. Have no doubt that you will find the right combination. Be safe !!!

shortwave · January 24, 2008, 09:08 PM

i too agree on advantage of musket cap especially if shooting pellets which burn from inside out. also fyi in case you don`t know, watch loading pressure as you don`t want to crush pellets.have fun

l.cutler · January 25, 2008, 05:48 AM

I have a Cabela's Hawken in percussion and a Lyman Trade rifle in flint, which is almost the same rifle. Both of these shoot excellent with real blackpowder and a patched round ball, one ragged hole at fifty yards when I do my part.

January 24, 2008, 09:41 AM	#5
ffrooster Member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: North of Alexandria, Louisiana Posts: 39	a I have 2 I have an older CVA Hawken that I shoot loose powder and buffalo bullets by hornady, but I only shoot 70 grains of powder, I have killed plenty of deer with it and its accurate at 70 grains of powder you try to step up the powder and accuracy goes out the window.....I also have a CVA Optima I shoot pellets and power belt bullets out of it with 100 grains of powder in 2 pellets....its shoots good ....it took me a few different rounds and powder charges to find the right load for the gun.

January 24, 2008, 10:16 AM	#6
Gbro Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,084	Is it a flint or cap lock? I have both. Flinters only are reliable with good old fashion BP. No substitutes. On the cap locks, some like the T/C Hawkins, are designed for pellet powder use. Like what they call fire storm ignition IIRC __________________ Gbro CGVS For the message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, But to us who are being saved, It Is The Power Of God. 1Corinthians 1-18

January 24, 2008, 12:01 PM	#8
Gbro Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,084	I am not convinced there is any benefit in changing from #11 caps to a musket cap, other than musket caps are much easier to deal with. But as for ignition value i am skeptical. __________________ Gbro CGVS For the message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, But to us who are being saved, It Is The Power Of God. 1Corinthians 1-18

January 23, 2008, 06:07 PM	#1
rifleman152000 Junior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Posts: 3	new to black powder recently purchased a cabella's hawken. can you use pyrodex pellets in these? and how about using sabot's?

January 23, 2008, 06:35 PM	#2
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Yes and yes. However, sabotted conicals may not shoot well depending on the load and barrel twist rate. Conicals over heavy (100 gr or more) loads in a slow twist barrel (1 in 60 or more) often suffer in accuracy.

January 23, 2008, 06:59 PM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	I'm thinking all the Cabela's Hawkens(Investarms) are 1:48 twist. I know mine is but it's 20 some odd years old. Mine doesn't shoot sabots for squat, they tumble. Having said that I haven't tried any in 15 years or so, maybe they've improved. Lead conicals work just fine for me and I don't have to clean melted plastic out of my bore.

January 24, 2008, 04:22 AM	#4
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	Sabots work great in my 1 in 48" twist Traditions Deerhunter, but you have to realize that every gun is different. They give very reliable 1st shot accuracy out of a cold, clean barrel which I've never able to get using 90 grains of Pyrodex P shooting a patched round ball. I use the TC Break-O-Way sabots and a 240 grain lead hollowpoint.

January 24, 2008, 11:38 AM	#7
rifleman152000 Junior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Posts: 3	thanks for the info guys. someone told me i may want to change to a different nipple, so that i can use a hotter cap if i'm planning on using the pellets. any thoughts on this? i have to say, that there is alot more to bp shooting than shooting centerfire rifles. for years i've collected ar's, ak's and such. then one day while looking at my collection, it hit me. i don't have one traditional looking rifle. so, 4 years ago my collection began to change bigtime. i now have a number of classic looking rifles. lever actions, bolt actions.....etc. i now think no rifle collection is complete without at least one black powder muzzle loader. this hawken is my first. i am planning on a flintlock kentucky rifle next, and maybe a cap and ball revolver. with a number of military style rifles, rimfires, air rifles, handguns, shotguns and now the black powder bug biting me i should never get bored with shooting. lol. i love this sport, and ain't it grand to be an American?

January 24, 2008, 12:35 PM	#9
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	I have found a definite advantage to using a musket cap and do convert from a #11 when applicable. Believe the vent is the same although I will have to measure. There is increased ignition. Some B/P substitutes required a hotter spark. Probably too late but also try some FFFG up to and including a .50. Range time is important and what works for one may not work for another. Have no doubt that you will find the right combination. Be safe !!!

January 24, 2008, 09:08 PM	#10
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	i too agree on advantage of musket cap especially if shooting pellets which burn from inside out. also fyi in case you don`t know, watch loading pressure as you don`t want to crush pellets.have fun

January 25, 2008, 05:48 AM	#11
l.cutler Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2005 Posts: 275	I have a Cabela's Hawken in percussion and a Lyman Trade rifle in flint, which is almost the same rifle. Both of these shoot excellent with real blackpowder and a patched round ball, one ragged hole at fifty yards when I do my part.