Anyone get decent accuracy from an SKS? - Page 2

MythBuster · February 2, 2008, 01:03 PM

Our club is full of benchrest hunters. They pay out the ass for the best rifles and scopes money can buy and $3 a round ammo.

They shoot on the bench for hours at a time trying to find that one hole group. After they finally shoot one they are ready to go hunting.

On the opening day of deer season they completely miss the biggest deer in history at a range of 35 yards because they don't have any rifleman skills.

The same deer runs over to the next farm where is is shot through the heart from 200 yards away by the old WW-II vet with the old worn out 30-30 rifle with iron sights.

The Marine Corp taught him to shoot without a bench back in 1942 and he still remembers what he was taught.

He could bearly see the deer but he could see his front sight and he knows that is all that matters.

If I had to share a fighting hole with someone I would much rather have the old man with the 30-30 watching my six than the benchrest guy.

Kivaari · February 2, 2008, 01:41 PM

I've fired a Russian '51 Tula in testing many different kinds of ammo. Setup was prone on a mat, 100 yards, std sights, and using a USGI sling set up for loop.......and a kivaari trigger....with 10 shot groups.

Most of the Russian mfg ammo was in the 3-4 Moa range. American mfg commercial ammo varied somewhat with the Winchester white box shooting about 3 moa or only some better. However, the soft primered commercial ammo would double at least once per magazine...this kinda' opened up the groups.

Best accuracy was with "Cheetah" ammo unfortunately made in Zimbabwe on ChiCom equipment...nice brass cased ammo and clean powder. I fired in a fairly quick cadence with a very warm barrel. Eight of the ten rounds were under 2" and 2 flew out. I credit the flyers to the shooter due to the "crawling" on the stock. Great ammo now extinct... This suggests that a quality bullet 125-130 gr on well prepared cases and 23-24 grains or so of AA1680 might produce groups consistently under 2 moa.

kivaari

STAGE 2 · February 2, 2008, 06:05 PM

With my 52' non-refurbed Russian and a superb trigger job by SKS master Kivaari, I can get tennis ball sized groups (and by groups I mean the entire clips worth... and yet is it a clip) freestanding at 40-50 yards with american ammo. I figure this is minute of face at 100 yards, and I'm quite pleased with that given that this is a cheap commie carbine.

Which brings me to a second point. It would behoove SKS users who shoot american ammo (and its softer primers) to have the FP spring mod done. This eliminates the chance of you having a "moment", which would undoubtedly be followed by a "movement".

Additionally, to echo what some others have said here, its the user and not the tool. The biggest baddest rifle around won't save a benchrest fudd from a rifleman with some knowhow and (insert your choice of crappy rifle here).

Don't get me wrong, if bench rest shooting is what makes you happy then by all means enjoy your hobby. However using bench rest shooting as practice for hunting/combat/fundamentals is about the same as racing in a car on rails to get ready for daytona.

Chris Phelps · February 2, 2008, 06:24 PM

Quote:

and yet is it a clip

Actually, it is an internal box magazine with a Hinged floor plate...

sorry, had to say it.

Quote:

Don't get me wrong, if bench rest shooting is what makes you happy then by all means enjoy your hobby. However using bench rest shooting as practice for hunting/combat/fundamentals is about the same as racing in a car on rails to get ready for daytona.

Nothing was said about bench rest shooting... what was being discussed is weather a bench shooter with a tack driver would be more likely to hit his target than a rifleman with a 5moa rifle. The argument is left-field anyway. He was bringing up things that had nothing at all to do with the topic at hand, and on top of that, it was a comparison between a good shooter with a crappy firearm and a shooter of unknown skill with a good firearm. I stick to my previous arguement... if a 5 moa rifle is clamped in a vice, it will STILL only shoot 5" groups at 100 yards.

Besides that entire point of view, he also left the reader with the assumption that a benchrest shooter cannot be a rifleman, and vice versa.

That being said... my preference would still be with an experienced shooter AND the tack driver.

Now, can we please get back on topic? (SKS accuracy, for those who have forgot).

1.5" groups would suit me just fine. It really seems like the SKS is a hit or miss when it comes to accuracy, though. Unless we can get some kind of pattern from this... like maybe everyone reporting smaller groups owns an SKS from the same country of manufacture?

Willie D · February 2, 2008, 07:38 PM

I can get 10 shot s in 4-5 inches at 100 yds from rest.

I think shooting a bunch of 3 shot groups lets you be too selective. Yes, I have put 3 shots in 2 inches, but not on command and not consistantly so I don't feel like I can claim 2moa.

rrp · February 2, 2008, 07:58 PM

ArmyGI, that is really funny stuff. Still laughing, but what you say seems to be the norm lately.

res45 · February 2, 2008, 10:24 PM

Not sure how to reply to this thread but I will give it my best shot from my prospective. First off I have two SKS rifle one 1970 unissued YUGO M59/66A1 I have had for three years and a Chinese factory /26\ early 60's that I lucked up on NIB,both rifle have all matching #,Milled receivers,trigger groups & threaded barrels.

I primarily shoot reloads in both rifle,it didn't take me long after working up a few different loads to realize both MY rifle would shoot MOA groups five and ten shots,and yes I did shoot them from a rest. I really don't know of any other way to actually test the accuracy of a particular rifle & load combination and set up your scope or sights,if your ammo is inconsistent and your sights are set to who know where then the problem only compounds itself when your shoot from other position.

I don't know if shooting from the standing position is a requirement for being a good marksman I just never have found it necessary in any particular situations i have been in. About the only time I shoot from that position is plinking with the 22,or dropping a few Doves or Quail with the 12 Ga. or popping a few Rds. out of the 357. In hunting situations or target shooting I always take advantage of whats available to give me the most steady shot,whether it be a tree,side of a building or shooting bag or shooting sticks.

As far as how accurate an SKS is or can be,well thats pretty much limited to two things,the inherent accuracy or inaccuracy of the rifle and YOU. What did you buy the rifle for plinking,hunting etc. what are you willing to put into it as far a taking the time to practice,expense to reload or test different commercial ammo's or add a different sight. You get out of it what you put into it. Back 40 Yrs. ago when I was 9 I got my first Rem. single shot 22 and the one box of ammo per Squirrel hunting season thats what my father could afford, you soon learn the one shot one kill if you want to eat. Sorry for the ramble. How about a couple 5 shot targets.

YUGO SKS

Reloads with Winchester Boxer Primed brass

Chinese SKS I kinda flinched on this one

Reloads made from Laupa Berdan Primed wooden bullet pratice ammo

Chris Phelps · February 3, 2008, 02:22 AM

I've got to say... those are nice groups. I was expecting a shotgun pattern with what I have been reading through lately. That top target is marked "50". Is that "50 Yards"?

res45 · February 3, 2008, 07:25 AM

Yes both targets we shot at 50 Yds. with iron sights set to the battle position,with that setting and loads hitting those clay white flyers out to 150 Yds. is about as easy as spitting on the ground. Actually zeroing your sights at 50 Yds. will give you more consistent groups at 100 because you have a better sight picture and can see allot more clearly where your shots are going so your adjustment are more precise. Plus any movement you see in your iron sights or scope is just doubled at 100 yds trying to zero it there first. Rezero your rifle out to 100 yds. or whatever your desired distance is after you get it dialed in at 50 it just helps eliminate basic sight in problems. Both my rifles ar stock except the YUGO has a replacement front sight pin from TechSight.

texastweeter · February 3, 2008, 08:59 PM

I recently purchased a sight rail that is attached to the gas tube on an sks. i figure it CANT have as much play as the ones tat ate attaced to the dust cvover. anyone have any experience with these and pistol scopes or possably with a good quality red dot sight?

res45 · February 3, 2008, 09:16 PM

texastweeter I don't have any personal experience with that type of mount but I have read several post that is only slightly better than a dust cover mount. I wouldn't use a long eye relief scope on it because of the movement its very unlikely it will hold zero. If I were going to put a good quality scope or red dot sight on it I would use this mount if I didn't want to do the drill and tap choate mount. http://161.58.206.244/store/merchant...y_Code=skscope

How to install
http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews2...emnt/index.asp

texastweeter · February 3, 2008, 10:18 PM

will pass tis info along to one of my brothers as it is actually for him. i do not own any milsurp guns, but they ARE fun to shoot.

riddleofsteel · February 3, 2008, 10:25 PM

Detail of back of scope mount. It screws down to a plate bolted to the receiver. You can take off the scope, mount and rings is seconds and replace them without loss of zero.

Norinco SKS with K-Loc quick disconnect scope mount and a Simmons 4X wide angle scope, Bell and Carlson stock and reworked trigger group.

Off of a sandbag rest this rifle will regularly shoot 1.5 MOA groups at 100 yards with Chi-Com steel jacket steel core ammo. With Russian steel jacket hollow points those groups grow to 2 or 2.5 MOA. With Federal soft points it will shoot in the 2.5 MOA range.

More than good enough for plinking and varmits around the farm. I have taken deer with this rifle but to be honest it is not my first choice for that duty. I think it more falls in the category of a "ranch rifle."

ISC · February 3, 2008, 11:25 PM

that chinese steel core is the most accurate 7.62x39 ammo I ever shot. wish we could get it back in the country again.

res45 · February 3, 2008, 11:36 PM

Cost you a new one but it's still around
http://ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/p...e&%3CosCsid%3E

pbrktrt · February 4, 2008, 08:05 PM

the Lapua is still available from skeeter bob on auction arms. very accurate in my mini-30. seems warm but shoots great.

U.S.SFC_RET · February 5, 2008, 07:02 AM

I wonder if thet is the same chicom steel core I picked up in the white and green box from china north industries.

Lawyer Daggit · February 5, 2008, 09:07 AM

SKS & Kalashnikovs are designed to shoot groups into a human torso at 200 yards or a mans head at 100 yards all day. Accuracy seems quite consistently of this ability. In a Russian unit a designated sniper with a Dragulov was there to take shots at ranges their capability.

Before access to them was made difficult in Australia I saw and spoke to hundredsof owners and results were consistent.

February 2, 2008, 01:41 PM	#27
Kivaari Member Join Date: August 7, 2005 Location: McKinney Texas Posts: 34	sks accuracy I've fired a Russian '51 Tula in testing many different kinds of ammo. Setup was prone on a mat, 100 yards, std sights, and using a USGI sling set up for loop.......and a kivaari trigger....with 10 shot groups. Most of the Russian mfg ammo was in the 3-4 Moa range. American mfg commercial ammo varied somewhat with the Winchester white box shooting about 3 moa or only some better. However, the soft primered commercial ammo would double at least once per magazine...this kinda' opened up the groups. Best accuracy was with "Cheetah" ammo unfortunately made in Zimbabwe on ChiCom equipment...nice brass cased ammo and clean powder. I fired in a fairly quick cadence with a very warm barrel. Eight of the ten rounds were under 2" and 2 flew out. I credit the flyers to the shooter due to the "crawling" on the stock. Great ammo now extinct... This suggests that a quality bullet 125-130 gr on well prepared cases and 23-24 grains or so of AA1680 might produce groups consistently under 2 moa. kivaari __________________ Kivaari quality SKS trigger tuning / repair www.kivaari.com

February 2, 2008, 06:05 PM	#28
STAGE 2 Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2002 Posts: 2,676	With my 52' non-refurbed Russian and a superb trigger job by SKS master Kivaari, I can get tennis ball sized groups (and by groups I mean the entire clips worth... and yet is it a clip) freestanding at 40-50 yards with american ammo. I figure this is minute of face at 100 yards, and I'm quite pleased with that given that this is a cheap commie carbine. Which brings me to a second point. It would behoove SKS users who shoot american ammo (and its softer primers) to have the FP spring mod done. This eliminates the chance of you having a "moment", which would undoubtedly be followed by a "movement". Additionally, to echo what some others have said here, its the user and not the tool. The biggest baddest rifle around won't save a benchrest fudd from a rifleman with some knowhow and (insert your choice of crappy rifle here). Don't get me wrong, if bench rest shooting is what makes you happy then by all means enjoy your hobby. However using bench rest shooting as practice for hunting/combat/fundamentals is about the same as racing in a car on rails to get ready for daytona. __________________ Attorneys use a specific analytical framework beaten into the spot that used to house our common sense...

February 2, 2008, 07:58 PM	#31
rrp Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2006 Location: west central Wi Posts: 300	very funny stuff ArmyGI, that is really funny stuff. Still laughing, but what you say seems to be the norm lately.

February 2, 2008, 10:24 PM	#32
res45 Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 753	Not sure how to reply to this thread but I will give it my best shot from my prospective. First off I have two SKS rifle one 1970 unissued YUGO M59/66A1 I have had for three years and a Chinese factory /26\ early 60's that I lucked up on NIB,both rifle have all matching #,Milled receivers,trigger groups & threaded barrels. I primarily shoot reloads in both rifle,it didn't take me long after working up a few different loads to realize both MY rifle would shoot MOA groups five and ten shots,and yes I did shoot them from a rest. I really don't know of any other way to actually test the accuracy of a particular rifle & load combination and set up your scope or sights,if your ammo is inconsistent and your sights are set to who know where then the problem only compounds itself when your shoot from other position. I don't know if shooting from the standing position is a requirement for being a good marksman I just never have found it necessary in any particular situations i have been in. About the only time I shoot from that position is plinking with the 22,or dropping a few Doves or Quail with the 12 Ga. or popping a few Rds. out of the 357. In hunting situations or target shooting I always take advantage of whats available to give me the most steady shot,whether it be a tree,side of a building or shooting bag or shooting sticks. As far as how accurate an SKS is or can be,well thats pretty much limited to two things,the inherent accuracy or inaccuracy of the rifle and YOU. What did you buy the rifle for plinking,hunting etc. what are you willing to put into it as far a taking the time to practice,expense to reload or test different commercial ammo's or add a different sight. You get out of it what you put into it. Back 40 Yrs. ago when I was 9 I got my first Rem. single shot 22 and the one box of ammo per Squirrel hunting season thats what my father could afford, you soon learn the one shot one kill if you want to eat. Sorry for the ramble. How about a couple 5 shot targets. YUGO SKS Reloads with Winchester Boxer Primed brass Chinese SKS I kinda flinched on this one Reloads made from Laupa Berdan Primed wooden bullet pratice ammo __________________ The Reloaders Network discord Channel https://discord.gg/Nafuzht Last edited by res45; February 3, 2008 at 02:17 AM.

February 3, 2008, 02:22 AM	#33
Chris Phelps Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2005 Location: South China, Maine Posts: 814	I've got to say... those are nice groups. I was expecting a shotgun pattern with what I have been reading through lately. That top target is marked "50". Is that "50 Yards"? __________________ Bushmaster Superlight AR-15 5.56mm / Custom 24" Heavy BBL Varmint AR-15 5.56mm / Ruger M77 .257 Roberts / Ruger MKI 22LR Pistol / EAA Witness 9mm Pistol / Daisy 2202 22LR / Remington Viper 522 22LR / Stevens 200 .223 / Savage 10FP 24" .308 / Mauser 98 Sporter 30-06

February 2, 2008, 01:03 PM	#26
MythBuster Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2007 Posts: 629	Our club is full of benchrest hunters. They pay out the ass for the best rifles and scopes money can buy and $3 a round ammo. They shoot on the bench for hours at a time trying to find that one hole group. After they finally shoot one they are ready to go hunting. On the opening day of deer season they completely miss the biggest deer in history at a range of 35 yards because they don't have any rifleman skills. The same deer runs over to the next farm where is is shot through the heart from 200 yards away by the old WW-II vet with the old worn out 30-30 rifle with iron sights. The Marine Corp taught him to shoot without a bench back in 1942 and he still remembers what he was taught. He could bearly see the deer but he could see his front sight and he knows that is all that matters. If I had to share a fighting hole with someone I would much rather have the old man with the 30-30 watching my six than the benchrest guy.

February 2, 2008, 07:38 PM	#30
Willie D Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2007 Posts: 1,149	I can get 10 shot s in 4-5 inches at 100 yds from rest. I think shooting a bunch of 3 shot groups lets you be too selective. Yes, I have put 3 shots in 2 inches, but not on command and not consistantly so I don't feel like I can claim 2moa.

February 3, 2008, 07:25 AM	#34
res45 Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 753	Yes both targets we shot at 50 Yds. with iron sights set to the battle position,with that setting and loads hitting those clay white flyers out to 150 Yds. is about as easy as spitting on the ground. Actually zeroing your sights at 50 Yds. will give you more consistent groups at 100 because you have a better sight picture and can see allot more clearly where your shots are going so your adjustment are more precise. Plus any movement you see in your iron sights or scope is just doubled at 100 yds trying to zero it there first. Rezero your rifle out to 100 yds. or whatever your desired distance is after you get it dialed in at 50 it just helps eliminate basic sight in problems. Both my rifles ar stock except the YUGO has a replacement front sight pin from TechSight. __________________ The Reloaders Network discord Channel https://discord.gg/Nafuzht Last edited by res45; February 3, 2008 at 08:04 AM.

February 3, 2008, 08:59 PM	#35
texastweeter Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Location: East Texas Posts: 115	I recently purchased a sight rail that is attached to the gas tube on an sks. i figure it CANT have as much play as the ones tat ate attaced to the dust cvover. anyone have any experience with these and pistol scopes or possably with a good quality red dot sight? __________________ "I do not need salvation. All I need is the freedom to face my destiny with courage and honor."

February 3, 2008, 09:16 PM	#36
res45 Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 753	texastweeter I don't have any personal experience with that type of mount but I have read several post that is only slightly better than a dust cover mount. I wouldn't use a long eye relief scope on it because of the movement its very unlikely it will hold zero. If I were going to put a good quality scope or red dot sight on it I would use this mount if I didn't want to do the drill and tap choate mount. http://161.58.206.244/store/merchant...y_Code=skscope How to install http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews2...emnt/index.asp __________________ The Reloaders Network discord Channel https://discord.gg/Nafuzht

February 3, 2008, 10:18 PM	#37
texastweeter Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Location: East Texas Posts: 115	will pass tis info along to one of my brothers as it is actually for him. i do not own any milsurp guns, but they ARE fun to shoot. __________________ "I do not need salvation. All I need is the freedom to face my destiny with courage and honor."

February 3, 2008, 10:25 PM	#38
riddleofsteel Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2000 Location: above ground Posts: 1,558	Detail of back of scope mount. It screws down to a plate bolted to the receiver. You can take off the scope, mount and rings is seconds and replace them without loss of zero. Norinco SKS with K-Loc quick disconnect scope mount and a Simmons 4X wide angle scope, Bell and Carlson stock and reworked trigger group. Off of a sandbag rest this rifle will regularly shoot 1.5 MOA groups at 100 yards with Chi-Com steel jacket steel core ammo. With Russian steel jacket hollow points those groups grow to 2 or 2.5 MOA. With Federal soft points it will shoot in the 2.5 MOA range. More than good enough for plinking and varmits around the farm. I have taken deer with this rifle but to be honest it is not my first choice for that duty. I think it more falls in the category of a "ranch rifle." __________________ For him there was always the discipline of steel.

February 3, 2008, 11:25 PM	#39
ISC Junior member Join Date: August 5, 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,982	that chinese steel core is the most accurate 7.62x39 ammo I ever shot. wish we could get it back in the country again.

February 3, 2008, 11:36 PM	#40
res45 Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 753	Cost you a new one but it's still around http://ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/p...e&%3CosCsid%3E __________________ The Reloaders Network discord Channel https://discord.gg/Nafuzht

February 4, 2008, 08:05 PM	#41
pbrktrt Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2008 Posts: 313	the Lapua is still available from skeeter bob on auction arms. very accurate in my mini-30. seems warm but shoots great.

February 5, 2008, 07:02 AM	#42
U.S.SFC_RET Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2005 Location: The Old line State Posts: 282	I wonder if thet is the same chicom steel core I picked up in the white and green box from china north industries. __________________ 1. Treat every firearm as if it were loaded. 2. Never point a firearm at anything you do not intend to shoot. 3. Keep the finger off the trigger and firearm on safe until ready to shoot. 4. Know the target and what's beyond it.

February 5, 2008, 09:07 AM	#43
Lawyer Daggit Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Posts: 1,181	SKS & Kalashnikovs are designed to shoot groups into a human torso at 200 yards or a mans head at 100 yards all day. Accuracy seems quite consistently of this ability. In a Russian unit a designated sniper with a Dragulov was there to take shots at ranges their capability. Before access to them was made difficult in Australia I saw and spoke to hundredsof owners and results were consistent.

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