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July 5, 2013, 10:16 AM | #26 |
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Most houses are made of the usual wallboard material which is not bullet resistant at all. There are things in the wall which might have some resistant properties like pipes, but most walls consist of two wall boards and some insulation. You can kick through most walls.
If you go to the range with a few sheets of wallboard Ill bet money the average round penetrates. |
July 5, 2013, 11:17 AM | #27 | |
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July 5, 2013, 12:27 PM | #28 | ||
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July 5, 2013, 02:39 PM | #29 | |
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As an owner of a 16 inch AK (VEPR 308), I wouldnt advise using it for home defense, unless you have alot of land. The liability is way too high. 7.62 has been known to easily penetrate cinderblock walls, and occasionally penetrate red brick. Be kind to your neighbors, stick with good 9mm JHP's, or 00 buck. |
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July 8, 2013, 04:46 AM | #30 | |
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July 8, 2013, 07:34 AM | #31 |
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A recent arrest for reckless endangerment in Oneida County of NY state of a man who was shooting his .22LR. Stray round penetrated outside wall, glass door (I suspect it was a shower door), another wall and lodged in the third wall. Don't know more details than were in the newspaper.
Of course, the news reporters are not so accurate, but it's worth considering.
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July 9, 2013, 12:06 PM | #32 |
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Friend of mine dated his best friend's sister in high school, had a thing for her even after they all grew up & married other people. She was in her early 20s, lying in her own bed next to her 9 month old baby, when the guy across the street decided to "dry fire" his new rifle.
She died instantly, shot through the head with a bullet that traveled through at least two walls before it came to rest inside her brain. Don't tell me that rifle bullets don't go though walls. They can and do. Saying they don't is as irresponsible as the idiots on Mythbusters telling people it's okay to shoot up into the air, as long as you point straight up. pax |
July 9, 2013, 09:13 PM | #33 |
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Whats the medical field have to gain from this video?
Dr - "You got shot with what?" Patient -"a .338" Dr - "Oh i saw a video, your gonna die." Dont get me wrong, its a fine video. I just hope that this wasnt the most informational video played there. |
July 9, 2013, 09:36 PM | #34 |
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Has any american civilian been shot with a .338? Seems rather unlikely
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July 10, 2013, 05:06 PM | #35 |
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.338 Win Mag? There's probably been a few unlucky hunters got tagged. .338 Lapua? Not so much...
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July 10, 2013, 06:56 PM | #36 | |
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All bullets are not the same. If I were going to keep a loaded 5.56/.223 rifle around for SD/HD, a fairly frangible load (as illustrated in the link) absolutely does not penetrate as much. The reason is the high velocity combined with short range. This test barely got 6 inches of penetration at 200 yards, at close range, probably even more fragmentation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCqmclsRQmM
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July 27, 2013, 01:47 PM | #37 |
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Rifleman1776 & Frank Ettin makes some good points.
Using water bottles for "ballistic comparisons"? Welcome to the 1950's.
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July 28, 2013, 08:02 AM | #38 | |
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I use water jugs and watermellons to impress kids with the explosive aspects of bullets, stressing what really happens (or what they think happens) when bullets hit objects, as part of their firearms safety training.
But it has no relation to reality. I like to use the 204 Ruger, its a small bullet traveling fast and will "blow up" water jugs. Not the big bullet the OP mentions, its a 32 gr bullet a hair over 4000 FPS. Then again, shooting bowling pins at 100 yards is not very effective, it goes right through and hardly moves the pin. Quote:
The only guarantee from any bullet is that you never know what any bullet will do. Chances are no two exact bullets will react the same way when fired from the same gun, into the same target. What does matter is the shooters ability to shoot a given gun. Recoil makes a big difference. It doesn't take a lot of recoil either, take International Rapid Fire Pistol If I remember right you have 7 seconds to shoot five targets, then 5 seconds to shoot five targets, and then 3 seconds to shoot five targets. This is normally shot with 22s. Even then recoil matters, there is a huge difference between 22 LR and 22 shorts. Point being, stop worrying about internet videos, shooting water jugs, phone books etc. Pick a round that you can shoot, a little gun you can shoot beats the heck out of a big gun you can't shoot. Rifles for home defense???? Try this, find out how your house is made, then go to a construction sight and get some scraps that matches your homes construction as close as possible. Build you an frame, using 2X4s (or what ever framing your house has) paneling or sheet rock on one side, siding on the other. Fill it with the same insulation you have, and shoot it with varying guns, rifles, pistols, etc. You're going to be surprised what happens. Think about your results before you decide to fire off some rifle rounds in your house.
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July 28, 2013, 11:57 AM | #39 |
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In a recent case in the area, an SKS was fired inside a home. The bullet penetrated the outer wall, the outer wall of a house 50 yards away, two interior walls of that house, and partway through an outer wall.
The idea that a gunshot, from any gun, will never overpenetrate is absurd, not matter how many rigged tests advocates of this or that gun come up with. Jim |
July 28, 2013, 04:33 PM | #40 |
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For realistic (non-scientific but still verifiable, imo) I like the original box O'truth test using drywall and various ammunition. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm
Then, when you are bored, you get into http://www.theboxotruth.com/index.html such things as the Buick O' truth and the demonstrations against car doors, engine blocks etc. Oth, enough folks have been killed/stopped/scared by everything from a .22 to a 12 gauge. If I had to shoot a bad guy, had the time, the money and the lawyering, I kind of like what the .50 BMG does to the keg of water. Me? I carry a Colt Commander .45 acp because I trust it, like it, shoot it VERY well, and it has proven itself for 100 years. |
July 29, 2013, 05:47 PM | #41 |
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Meh...
Personally I think the AA-12 shotgun would be hard to beat for home defense. I don't need to jug of water to prove that I just have a "feeling" |
July 29, 2013, 10:36 PM | #42 |
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An earlier post asked "why does the water jug jump into the air"
The bullet passing through the water creates a pressure wave. When the wave hits the side and bottom of the plastic water jug, the force of the wave is passed through the plastic wall of the jug and into whatever is on the other side. The bottom of the jug is resting on a firm solid surface, so the plastic flexible bottom "punches" the floor, causing the jug to jump. If you could have your hand on the side of the jug as the bullet passed through, you would feel a sharp impact in your hand. I would imagine it would be similar to catching a baseball. I don't recommend this ! If the jug were sitting on an absorbent foam pad, it probably would not jump. If the jug were a steel drum of the same weight, it probably would not jump because the steel would flex less and transmit less of the wave energy into the floor. In fact most steel drums are designed so that only the rim touches the floor, the bottom of the drum is raised above the floor. In this case, almost no energy would be transmitted to the floor.... no jump. As others have pointed out, people are not plastic water jugs. |
August 23, 2013, 10:03 PM | #43 |
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While it has no real scientific ballistic results and doesn't try to have them, in relation to shooting water filled jugs for visually stimulating results; this video is hard to beat as far as how many cartridges are used and how many different brands of ammunition between them all is featured. Pretty entertaining I think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekc8rs6CAOg |
August 23, 2013, 10:50 PM | #44 |
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Last edited by PAT99MI; August 27, 2013 at 05:23 PM. |
August 23, 2013, 11:07 PM | #45 |
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Pat,
Weclome o the firing line! This is probably the wrong place for your question. My answer is no, do not mix rounds. Hollow point +p's will go through a couch (unless you're sitting on all steel). Unless you're trying to shoot through something like a car door, a hollow point should do it, and that way you're familiar with exactly what is loaded. However, I do recommend starting a new thread to discuss this topic. |
August 23, 2013, 11:13 PM | #46 | |
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Several manufacturers (Remington, Federal, Winchester, Speer, Hornady to name a few) offer several premium JHP designs (Golden Sabre, HydraShok, PDX1, Gold Dot, Critical Duty, respectively) in a broad range of bullet weights (110 gr, 125 gr, 158 gr. etc.) and velocities (from 750-1050 fps) for the .38 Special. Any of these JHPs will make it through typical household furniture.
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QUANTITATIVE AMMUNITION SELECTION Last edited by 481; August 23, 2013 at 11:19 PM. |
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August 23, 2013, 11:36 PM | #47 |
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MarkXIX, thanks for the video link. I didn't think I would enjoy it, but I did. While 40 min long it was interesting to see what all the calibers and different bullets would do. I thought the 50BMG would do more damage than it did.
Thanks again. Jim
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August 24, 2013, 01:58 AM | #48 | |
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And whatever you might think about the Mythbusters guys, they definitely aren't idiots. They never said it was OK to shoot in the air, they only did an experiment that showed bullets fired straight up won't come down with enough velocity to kill someone. They also said that it's easy to accidentallly fire the gun in the air at an angle, and that angle is what allows the bullet to retain enough velocity to kill; they explicitly told people during that episode to NEVER fire a gun into the air.
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August 24, 2013, 02:03 AM | #49 | |
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August 24, 2013, 02:13 AM | #50 |
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Bullets can go through walls.
As some have noted, bullets can be selected that are less likely to do so than are others. Accusations of "rigged tests" are confusing. The 5.56 vs 9mm vs 12ga a few posters mentioned has been discussed on TFL many a time. This is the first time I have seen people suggest results were falsified. Note that the 5.56 used in that test was not penetrator core type ammo, and that it was traveling near max velocity in the test, so it disintegrated at wall impact. |
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