Tell me about this gun!

Mahalaleel · February 11, 2008, 10:00 PM

This was my grandfather's gun, and I believe it's an M1917. I tried wikipedia and found out a little bit about it.

Mostly I'm curious if it's worth anything (I don't intend to sell it) or if I should get a higher magnification scope and have some fun with it.

Thanks!

This says "Model 330 Pats. Pending. R.W. Weaver El Paso Tx., U.S.A.

Baba Louie · February 11, 2008, 10:38 PM

That Weaver scope is similar to that used on the 03-A4 Springfield, probably a 2.5X.
While you could upgrade it, keep it for Grandpa's sake. Go ahead and mount something new, just keep the old Weaver.

Gbro · February 11, 2008, 11:54 PM

Nice looking rifle.
If it were mine I wouldn't leave it laying around on the floor

If I were to use it as a hunting rifle I might re-scope it. But for an occasional range trip, It would stay just like it is,
JMHO

Mahalaleel · February 11, 2008, 11:58 PM

What kind of scopes could I put on it using the weaver mount that's there?

Any recommendations? I'd love to practice long range shooting 300+ yards.

shooter_john · February 12, 2008, 12:33 AM

I don't really know anything about it, but it is COOL... I love seeing 'Grandpa's rifle' pics like that. Wish I had a rifle handed down like that!

Gbro · February 12, 2008, 12:48 AM

Prove the rifle first.
It may not shoot all that well anymore? Maybe it's a tack driver too?

What is the tube diameter? looks 3/4" to me.

Mahalaleel · February 12, 2008, 01:05 AM

3/4" sounds right...

I have shot it with the scope that's on it now, it's very accurate. I took it to the range, and it's perfectly sighted in for 25 yards.

predator86 · February 12, 2008, 05:38 AM

i would look for an older redfield for that rifle.....

Martyn4802 · February 12, 2008, 07:03 AM

If it were my rifle, I'd leave it exactly like it is and shoot it. It's a keepsake handed down from your grandfather.

Martyn

Baba Louie · February 12, 2008, 02:36 PM

Ever hear that old chestnut... "Don't fix it if it ain't broke"?

http://www.swfa.com/c-860-weaver-cla...le-scopes.aspx
You can see the newer version of what's on there.
If you really want to change the glass, contact SWFA and tell them whatcha got and what you want to do with the rifle (those 1917's can be terrifically accurate). (No new holes in receiver please)

Can you photo the mounted base and rings as well? (just cause I'm nosy and love to see old warhorse shooters turned out to deer pastures... as it were)

If it's dead on at 25 yds, you might want to see how good a group you get at 100 - 200 yds with the old Weaver on there. If you have minute of Bambi and plan on just shooting paper, that should do ya. If you want to make small groups on paper, maybe more power is warranted (at what cost?) If you're going to be shooting Bambi at dawn and dusk, you might want at least a 4X with a bigger front end to gather more light in those grey-blue minutes when the deer start to kinda show up.

Then again, ya gotta figure if it was good enough for Gramps...

As to it's value... a non-molested 1917 milsurp in good condition today... $500 easy, maybe more, maybe less if ya get lucky (and are buying). If that one was sporterized by G&H or a big name from the past, it too has a market value for certain collectors.

Mahalaleel · February 12, 2008, 05:45 PM

I don't know what my grandpa modified. The buttpad is obvious, I believe the barrel is floated, I don't know much about when/where/how he served, so I don't know if the scope was an addition.

Baba Louie · February 12, 2008, 09:16 PM

Someone also had an aperature sight, like a Williams or Lyman based on the twin holes on the right rear side of the receiver along with the stock cutout.

Some grip surgery was also performed it appears.

That sight base will preclude many options in terms of a new scope unless you can find another base/mount that aligns with those screw holes. You might want to contact a local gunsmith and ask a few questions.

Personally, I'd leave Grandfathers 90 year old Remington Pattern 17 as is and see how good I could become using it... and know that he's there with you in a manner of speaking, every time you take it out.

I've got several rifles my father left me, tho he left them all in milsurp configuration which I plan on passing down to my son and grandson. (fingers crossed)

BIGR · February 12, 2008, 09:27 PM

If you take it to the range, let us know how it does.

bigbird34 · February 12, 2008, 09:47 PM

When the U.S. enetred the war on 4-6-1917 the British contracts were terminated by mutual agreement between the two governments,after some 600,000 rifles had been completed.remington was at the time tooled up for the Enfield Pattern 1914,so rather than switch production to the standard U.S.M1930 rifle,it was decided the easiest solution was to modifiy the British P14 to take the standard 30-06 Cartridge.Designated the Model 1917,the first US government contract for these rifles was signed on 7-12-1917,and between Sep 1917 and Sept 1918 one million rifles were produced ,a truly astonishing achievment,The eddystone factory ended production in 1-1919 and the buildings were then leased to the gov.as a storage facility.nearly 2/3rd's of all rifles used by US soldiers in France came form the Eddystone factory,where the greatest production achieved was 6000 rifles in one day Many surviving rifles ended up in hands of the British Home Guard in 1940,although as they also had .303 P14's keeping seperate British and US ammunition supplies became a problem....from The illustarted Directory of GUNS....in 1994 in v.g. condition $300.00 exc $350 w/o scope,14 years later and it was your grandfathers "priceless".Enjoy BB34 ....pass it on to your son or daughter .

lockedcj7 · February 12, 2008, 10:07 PM

Quote:

and know that he's there with you in a manner of speaking, every time you take it out.

I don't have any heirloom rifles like that but I do have my grandpa's 20 ga double. When I fist started hunting, my dad and I would borrow that gun when we wanted to hunt. (We didn't have enough money to buy a gun for me at the time.) Both have passed on but I feel them with me when I walk the fencerows with that gun in hand.

That is a super-cool old rifle and scope combo. I would never in a million years swap out the scope unless it was broken. Putting a modern scope on it would ruin the aesthetic and the nostalgia.

Mahalaleel · February 13, 2008, 07:10 AM

I think I'll take y'alls advice and leave it how it is! I have shot it at the range, and it performed flawlessly at 25 yards (indoor range). All inside an inch (maybe less, didn't really measure). I'll have to see what I can do with it further away!

I hadn't thought of it as a piece of my grandfather, thanks for your input. It stays as is.

I also forgot to mention it hadn't been fired in 40+ years until I got my hands on it. (I had a smith check it out to make sure it was safe before firing)

Electronrider · February 13, 2008, 08:33 AM

Wise descision. You can always build up a modern tack driver, it's a whole other game to be dead nuts on with grandpa's rifle. Beautiful gun.

Doyle · February 13, 2008, 12:14 PM

Bigbird's assessment of value was based on the original military configuration. Your rifle is not in its original configuration. After WWII, the US government dumped all of it's WWI era bolt action training rifles onto the civilian market. There were a number of companies that bought these rifles in bulk and converted them into "sporters" - what you have. Additionally, individual owners also bought gov't surplus rifles and sporterized them. Some of the sporterizing jobs were excellent - some were crap.

That being said, there is no way to establish a value on a sporterized rifle the same way that you can on an original collector's gun. That gun now has zero value as a "collectable". The value is now established based on "utility" - that is, what a willing buyer thinks the gun is worth to him for either target shooting or hunting.

In the past year, I've seen sporterized 1917's go from as low as $150 to over $300 for a very well done sporterization job. I wouldn't count on that old scope adding any value - any person looking for a shooter is going to want modern optics.

My advise, for what it's worth, is to replace that scope with a decent one and go out and enjoy grandpa's old gun. I killed my first deer with an original (military version) 1917.

February 11, 2008, 10:00 PM	#1
Mahalaleel Member Join Date: April 5, 2005 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 33	Tell me about this gun! This was my grandfather's gun, and I believe it's an M1917. I tried wikipedia and found out a little bit about it. Mostly I'm curious if it's worth anything (I don't intend to sell it) or if I should get a higher magnification scope and have some fun with it. Thanks! This says "Model 330 Pats. Pending. R.W. Weaver El Paso Tx., U.S.A.

February 11, 2008, 10:38 PM	#2
Baba Louie Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2001 Posts: 1,552	That Weaver scope is similar to that used on the 03-A4 Springfield, probably a 2.5X. While you could upgrade it, keep it for Grandpa's sake. Go ahead and mount something new, just keep the old Weaver. __________________ A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." - George Washington, January 8, 1790, First State of the Union Address

February 11, 2008, 11:54 PM	#3
Gbro Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,084	Nice looking rifle. If it were mine I wouldn't leave it laying around on the floor If I were to use it as a hunting rifle I might re-scope it. But for an occasional range trip, It would stay just like it is, JMHO __________________ Gbro CGVS For the message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, But to us who are being saved, It Is The Power Of God. 1Corinthians 1-18

February 12, 2008, 12:33 AM	#5
shooter_john Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2002 Location: ALABAMA Posts: 1,472	I don't really know anything about it, but it is COOL... I love seeing 'Grandpa's rifle' pics like that. Wish I had a rifle handed down like that! __________________ TROTAC.com

February 12, 2008, 12:48 AM	#6
Gbro Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,084	Prove the rifle first. It may not shoot all that well anymore? Maybe it's a tack driver too? What is the tube diameter? looks 3/4" to me. __________________ Gbro CGVS For the message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, But to us who are being saved, It Is The Power Of God. 1Corinthians 1-18

February 11, 2008, 11:58 PM	#4
Mahalaleel Member Join Date: April 5, 2005 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 33	What kind of scopes could I put on it using the weaver mount that's there? Any recommendations? I'd love to practice long range shooting 300+ yards.

February 12, 2008, 01:05 AM	#7
Mahalaleel Member Join Date: April 5, 2005 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 33	3/4" sounds right... I have shot it with the scope that's on it now, it's very accurate. I took it to the range, and it's perfectly sighted in for 25 yards. Last edited by Mahalaleel; February 12, 2008 at 05:34 PM.

February 12, 2008, 05:38 AM	#8
predator86 Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: wisconsin Posts: 549	i would look for an older redfield for that rifle..... __________________ Beware the man with one gun.

February 12, 2008, 07:03 AM	#9
Martyn4802 Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2007 Location: Grayling, Michigan Posts: 737	If it were my rifle, I'd leave it exactly like it is and shoot it. It's a keepsake handed down from your grandfather. Martyn __________________ US Army Retired NRA Benefactor Life Member JPFO

February 12, 2008, 02:36 PM	#10
Baba Louie Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2001 Posts: 1,552	Ever hear that old chestnut... "Don't fix it if it ain't broke"? http://www.swfa.com/c-860-weaver-cla...le-scopes.aspx You can see the newer version of what's on there. If you really want to change the glass, contact SWFA and tell them whatcha got and what you want to do with the rifle (those 1917's can be terrifically accurate). (No new holes in receiver please) Can you photo the mounted base and rings as well? (just cause I'm nosy and love to see old warhorse shooters turned out to deer pastures... as it were) If it's dead on at 25 yds, you might want to see how good a group you get at 100 - 200 yds with the old Weaver on there. If you have minute of Bambi and plan on just shooting paper, that should do ya. If you want to make small groups on paper, maybe more power is warranted (at what cost?) If you're going to be shooting Bambi at dawn and dusk, you might want at least a 4X with a bigger front end to gather more light in those grey-blue minutes when the deer start to kinda show up. Then again, ya gotta figure if it was good enough for Gramps... As to it's value... a non-molested 1917 milsurp in good condition today... $500 easy, maybe more, maybe less if ya get lucky (and are buying). If that one was sporterized by G&H or a big name from the past, it too has a market value for certain collectors. __________________ A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." - George Washington, January 8, 1790, First State of the Union Address

February 12, 2008, 05:45 PM	#11
Mahalaleel Member Join Date: April 5, 2005 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 33	I don't know what my grandpa modified. The buttpad is obvious, I believe the barrel is floated, I don't know much about when/where/how he served, so I don't know if the scope was an addition.

February 12, 2008, 09:16 PM	#12
Baba Louie Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2001 Posts: 1,552	Someone also had an aperature sight, like a Williams or Lyman based on the twin holes on the right rear side of the receiver along with the stock cutout. Some grip surgery was also performed it appears. That sight base will preclude many options in terms of a new scope unless you can find another base/mount that aligns with those screw holes. You might want to contact a local gunsmith and ask a few questions. Personally, I'd leave Grandfathers 90 year old Remington Pattern 17 as is and see how good I could become using it... and know that he's there with you in a manner of speaking, every time you take it out. I've got several rifles my father left me, tho he left them all in milsurp configuration which I plan on passing down to my son and grandson. (fingers crossed) __________________ A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." - George Washington, January 8, 1790, First State of the Union Address

February 12, 2008, 09:27 PM	#13
BIGR Senior Member Join Date: June 13, 2000 Location: Mountains Posts: 1,385	If you take it to the range, let us know how it does.

February 12, 2008, 09:47 PM	#14
bigbird34 Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2007 Location: N.W.Vermont Posts: 291	Whats it worth ??? When the U.S. enetred the war on 4-6-1917 the British contracts were terminated by mutual agreement between the two governments,after some 600,000 rifles had been completed.remington was at the time tooled up for the Enfield Pattern 1914,so rather than switch production to the standard U.S.M1930 rifle,it was decided the easiest solution was to modifiy the British P14 to take the standard 30-06 Cartridge.Designated the Model 1917,the first US government contract for these rifles was signed on 7-12-1917,and between Sep 1917 and Sept 1918 one million rifles were produced ,a truly astonishing achievment,The eddystone factory ended production in 1-1919 and the buildings were then leased to the gov.as a storage facility.nearly 2/3rd's of all rifles used by US soldiers in France came form the Eddystone factory,where the greatest production achieved was 6000 rifles in one day Many surviving rifles ended up in hands of the British Home Guard in 1940,although as they also had .303 P14's keeping seperate British and US ammunition supplies became a problem....from The illustarted Directory of GUNS....in 1994 in v.g. condition $300.00 exc $350 w/o scope,14 years later and it was your grandfathers "priceless".Enjoy BB34 ....pass it on to your son or daughter .

February 13, 2008, 07:10 AM	#16
Mahalaleel Member Join Date: April 5, 2005 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 33	I think I'll take y'alls advice and leave it how it is! I have shot it at the range, and it performed flawlessly at 25 yards (indoor range). All inside an inch (maybe less, didn't really measure). I'll have to see what I can do with it further away! I hadn't thought of it as a piece of my grandfather, thanks for your input. It stays as is. I also forgot to mention it hadn't been fired in 40+ years until I got my hands on it. (I had a smith check it out to make sure it was safe before firing)

February 13, 2008, 08:33 AM	#17
Electronrider Member Join Date: October 24, 2006 Posts: 28	Wise descision. You can always build up a modern tack driver, it's a whole other game to be dead nuts on with grandpa's rifle. Beautiful gun.

February 13, 2008, 12:14 PM	#18
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	Bigbird's assessment of value was based on the original military configuration. Your rifle is not in its original configuration. After WWII, the US government dumped all of it's WWI era bolt action training rifles onto the civilian market. There were a number of companies that bought these rifles in bulk and converted them into "sporters" - what you have. Additionally, individual owners also bought gov't surplus rifles and sporterized them. Some of the sporterizing jobs were excellent - some were crap. That being said, there is no way to establish a value on a sporterized rifle the same way that you can on an original collector's gun. That gun now has zero value as a "collectable". The value is now established based on "utility" - that is, what a willing buyer thinks the gun is worth to him for either target shooting or hunting. In the past year, I've seen sporterized 1917's go from as low as $150 to over $300 for a very well done sporterization job. I wouldn't count on that old scope adding any value - any person looking for a shooter is going to want modern optics. My advise, for what it's worth, is to replace that scope with a decent one and go out and enjoy grandpa's old gun. I killed my first deer with an original (military version) 1917.