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Old September 4, 2014, 08:17 PM   #26
Double Naught Spy
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I go to an outdoor range that has been there for 20yrs or so, some one bought a piece of land and built a house straight downrange and 4000 yards away. they constantly complained about the noise and filed many complaints. after getting nowhere in our very pro-gun town, they began complaining of their house getting shot over and over. they eventually filed suit and go a trial with a jury, they showed pictures of the bullet holes and satellite photos of the area. the range lost the case and settled with the homeowners to buy their house and give them a agreed upon $$ for moving expenses, although he adamantly stood by that they didn't shoot the house. so, long story short, the range now owns the house, and they pulled 16 bullets of .380 out of the one side of their house, obviously shot at close range. they had an NRA study come out and check the range, and they also concluded there was no way the bullets came from the range. so the homeowners shot their own house to get paid to move because of the noise. which the noise was very loud, but they moved there knowing there was a gun range. the range was out nearly a million dollars n the end. the owner said he was supposed to be retiring this year, but now fears he will never be able to. the range is Advanced Bullets in Temple, GA. there are a few news stories about it
We discussed this case at length here. Your contention that the owner's shot their own house doesn't fit with the court's ruling. If what you say is true, then where is the countersuit?
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...+range+lawsuit
http://www.guns.com/2013/06/27/ga-co...n-range-video/

You failed to mention that the owner of the house complained for years about his house being shot and asked for changes to the range and the range refused. The range only made changes AFTER the suit.
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Old September 4, 2014, 10:43 PM   #27
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skizzums
I go to an outdoor range that has been there for 20yrs or so, some one bought a piece of land and built a house straight downrange and 4000 yards away. they constantly complained about the noise and filed many complaints. after getting nowhere in our very pro-gun town, they began complaining of their house getting shot over and over. they eventually filed suit and go a trial with a jury, they showed pictures of the bullet holes and satellite photos of the area. the range lost the case and settled with the homeowners to buy their house and give them a agreed upon $$ for moving expenses, although he adamantly stood by that they didn't shoot the house. so, long story short, the range now owns the house, and they pulled 16 bullets of .380 out of the one side of their house, obviously shot at close range. they had an NRA study come out and check the range, and they also concluded there was no way the bullets came from the range. so the homeowners shot their own house to get paid to move because of the noise. which the noise was very loud, but they moved there knowing there was a gun range. the range was out nearly a million dollars n the end. the owner said he was supposed to be retiring this year, but now fears he will never be able to. the range is Advanced Bullets in Temple, GA. there are a few news stories about it
Sounds fishy to me. 4000 yards is 2-1/4 miles. I live just about that far from a gun club. On Saturdays and Sundays I can hear shooting at the club -- if I'm outdoors and listen really hard when none of the neighbors are running a lawn mower. Inside the house I never hear it at all.

And why wasn't the investigation that proved the shots were faked done while the situation was still in dispute/negotiation? Why doesn't the range owner sue them for fraud?

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; September 4, 2014 at 10:51 PM.
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Old September 5, 2014, 04:45 AM   #28
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A friend of mine used to live on a 60 acre farm in Gainsville VA. He had his own range/berm for pistol and rifle shooting, and both of his sons shot competitively and practiced a lot. There was a housing area about a half mile from his place, not in line with the range so there would never be a stray bullet issue, but one resident of the housing area constantly complained to the cops about the noise. So, the cops asked my friend to have his kids go start shooting and he would test the noise level at the complainer's house. The boys shot 9mm, 45acp, and .500 S&W that day. Turned out the db level was less than the guys own air conditioner unit. Basically the cops told him he was full of crap, but still, they would come to my friends house every time the guy called to complain. Not to give him any grief mind you. It just gave them an excuse to ask permission to use the range, which they did a lot.
Awesome. I like to see officers who do things like that, instead of just telling them to stop.
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Old September 5, 2014, 06:19 AM   #29
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I hope that never happens where I shoot. We did have one range close because
(IMHO) a bunch of young snot kids started shooting up equipment at the Company next door. That range had been there over 40 years with the same company next door always. The one I shoot at now is in the middle of no where. Farmers fields all around,county road access. Farmer shoots there. His house is the closest and that is about 1.5 miles away. He says he will never sell the land,so I hope that stays that way. It's only a 300 yard range,but better than nothing.
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Old September 5, 2014, 07:34 AM   #30
Double Naught Spy
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Sounds fishy to me. 4000 yards is 2-1/4 miles. I live just about that far from a gun club. On Saturdays and Sundays I can hear shooting at the club -- if I'm outdoors and listen really hard when none of the neighbors are running a lawn mower. Inside the house I never hear it at all.
Yeah, AB, skizzums has that wrong as well. As noted in the other thread, the house was only about 160 yards beyond the 100 yard backstop for the range, not 4000 yards. I am not sure where he go 4000 yards. Spruill Road on which the Caldwells lived and the range is located isn't even that long.

Go back and reread the thread, if you like. You participated in it.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...lawsuit&page=3

Note that the range is located at 35 Spruill Road and the Caldwells lived at 99 Spruill Road in Temple, GA.
http://www.peoplefinders.com/propert...eth+d+caldwell

Here is 99 Spruill Road on Google Maps and the range and notice it is the property behind the berms.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/99...b945411ccb258b
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ad...69fbefaac2dcdd

It is interesting that skizzums said the range owned the property now. The range was not required to buy the property by the court. So why would the range buy the property after paying a settlement of $175K for damages, especially if it was the claimed 4000 yards away? Does that make sense?
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/socie...arby-gun-range

If accurate, more likely the range bought the distressed property after the settlement to preclude future lawsuits and to increase their down range safety fan for errant rounds.

Bottom line here is that skizzum's information does not jive with the actual facts, and this was all examined in detail by the courts and the range was definitely found liable.
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Last edited by Double Naught Spy; September 5, 2014 at 07:45 AM.
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Old September 5, 2014, 04:01 PM   #31
Machineguntony
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I live in central Texas, and near my city, there is only one range that allows .308 full auto. The other range, Best of the West, allows full auto, but only up to .223.

There is a lady, who lives like 200 yards behind the 308 range, who has complained, directly to me, when I shot my 9mm subguns and M16s. These people live really close, so they can clearly hear gun fire. They're going to go nuts when they hear my 308.
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Old September 5, 2014, 04:17 PM   #32
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If you travel a little further south to San Antonio, you could find the National Shooting Complex. Which has had both its rifle and pistol ranges closed due to complaints. Only thing other than shotguns firing there are some SASS meets and CHL classes. A darn shame really. Or that was the case when I went to visit the place in 2012.
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Old September 5, 2014, 06:38 PM   #33
NateKirk
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My local range is run by the DNR and they were getting complaints about noise. They just put a bunch of sound baffles so that should solve the problem.
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Old September 5, 2014, 07:47 PM   #34
243winxb
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Pennsylvania Range Noise Law

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI...98/0/0130..HTM Pennsylvania law -Noise
Quote:
NOISE POLLUTION - AMEND IMMUNITY FROM NUISANCE ACTIONS

Act of Dec. 21, 1998, P.L. 986, No. 130 Cl. 35



Session of 1998

No. 1998-130





SB 56





AN ACT



Amending the act of June 2, 1988 (P.L.452, No.74), entitled "An act exempting owners of shooting ranges from any civil or criminal actions relating to noise pollution," further defining the granted immunity from nuisance actions.



The General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania hereby enacts as follows:



Section 1. Sections 1 and 2 of the act of June 2, 1988 (P.L.452, No.74), entitled "An act exempting owners of shooting ranges from any civil or criminal actions relating to noise pollution," are amended to read:

Section 1. General immunity for noise.

All owners of rifle, pistol, silhouette, skeet, trap, blackpowder or other ranges in this Commonwealth shall be exempt and immune from any civil action or criminal prosecution in any matter relating to noise or noise pollution resulting from the normal and accepted shooting activity on ranges, provided that the owners of the ranges are in compliance with any applicable noise control laws or ordinances extant at the time construction of the range was initiated. If there were no noise control laws or ordinances extant at the time construction of the range was initiated, then the immunity granted by this act shall apply to said ranges.

Section 2. Nuisances and injunction.

The owners of the ranges shall not be subject to any action for nuisance, and no court in this Commonwealth shall enjoin the use or operation of the ranges on the basis of noise or noise pollution, provided that the owners of the ranges are in compliance with any applicable noise control laws or ordinances extant at the time construction of the range was initiated. If there were no noise control laws or ordinances extant at the time construction of the range was initiated, then the immunity granted by this act shall apply to said ranges.



Section 2. This act shall be retroactive to June 2, 1988.



Section 3. This act shall take effect immediately.





APPROVED--The 21st day of December, A. D. 1998.



THOMAS J. RIDGE
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Old September 5, 2014, 08:46 PM   #35
4V50 Gary
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Better work on legislation that prevents ranges in your state from being closed for public nuisance (noise) or other frivolous lawsuits.
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Old September 5, 2014, 08:50 PM   #36
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I had an issue with a couple at a BCPR shoot one time. They didn't like me smoking on the firing line and said something to me. It was an outdoor venue. I seriously thought they were kidding. I looked up and down the line...there were clouds of black powder smoke hovering on the breeze. Some people just feel like it is their right to impose their views, opinions and sometimes stupidity on others...
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Old September 5, 2014, 08:57 PM   #37
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yes I apologize, its about 400 yards away. I cant say who was right and who was wrong, I was siding with the range because he's a pretty decent old guy, but really I am just relating what was said to me by him. I am not sure why he owns the house now, just know he does and he rents it out to an employee. he states nearly a million dollars after laywers, settlement, inspections, insurance(which apparenty, he didn't have before) and buying the property. not to mention the range was closed for an extended period of time.

I know absolutely zero facts about the case, I just frequent the range and have a good relationship with everyone that works there, and they like to vent about the case
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Old September 5, 2014, 11:03 PM   #38
Double Naught Spy
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skizzums, it isn't even 400 yards from the shooting tables, LOL. I am sure they like to vent about the case and I am sure the stories will continue to change over the years.

A truism of many ranges is that there are bullets that leave the immediate range/firing/backstop area. Some outdoor ranges own extensive land holdings to preclude rounds from actually leaving their own property. Other ranges have extensive baffle systems in place to help keep rounds in the range. Advanced Bullets had neither. They appeared to be relying on the foliage beyond the range to stop any escaping rounds and the foliage let them down. Foliage is NOT a reliable backstop.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Advanced Bullets to House Distance.jpg (179.3 KB, 17 views)
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Old September 6, 2014, 12:13 AM   #39
skizzums
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the backstop is not just foliage. its huge walls of tires, I don't know how tall, but very tall. im not saying tires are the best idea, just clarifying. I do know that the ne insurance company had them get an audit by the NRA and they cleared the range, I don't know what that means, but it must be worth something. I also know they had no complaints until THOSE people moved in, and haven't had any more strays since they left
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Old September 6, 2014, 03:32 AM   #40
Pond, James Pond
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Quote:
so, long story short, the range now owns the house, and they pulled 16 bullets of .380 out of the one side of their house, obviously shot at close range. they had an NRA study come out and check the range, and they also concluded there was no way the bullets came from the range. so the homeowners shot their own house to get paid to move because of the noise.
If that didn't come out in the courtroom for the defence, I'd say that the defence lawyers dropped the ball on that one...
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Old September 6, 2014, 04:46 AM   #41
ljnowell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jag2 View Post
So exactly what do you think the owner of that land should do, just keep it undeveloped for the convenience of the of the gun range? Civilization does creep in to uninhabited areas. A range in the Dallas area got hit for 1 mil because a homeowner over a mile down range got hit. The range has been able to stay open by making many court ordered improvements. Yes they were in the sticks when they opened over 30 years ago but not now. If the owner had invested in safety improvements years ago he could have saved himself a lot of money. I do think the judgement was over the line but the jury (I think) was ****** that this guy did nothing over the years to make the place safer. The worst part of the story is that the owner didn't have any liability insurance.

What exactly do you think a safe and legal range should do? Close down because people bought land around them and don't like the range?
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Old September 6, 2014, 08:08 AM   #42
Double Naught Spy
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Quote:
the backstop is not just foliage. its huge walls of tires, I don't know how tall, but very tall.
LOL skizzums. Yes, they had backstops and the extensively remodeled versions are in the picture I provided, but backstops don't stop rounds from going over the top of them, do they? Just because you have a backstop doesn't mean that is where the bullets are going. Besides, if you go into Google Earth and look at what the old dirt backstops looked like, you can see that they were much smaller than they are now. You can see extensive work on the berms since Oct 29, 2010

Also, What is the ground elevation of the shooter's tables, ground elevation of the shooter's tables, berms, and Caldwell house? According to Google Earth,...

Tables 1060 ft
25 yard berm 1058 ft
50 yard berm 1055 ft
100 yard berm 1046 ft
Caldwell home 1087 ft

So the berms are down slope from the shooting tables, the land falling away down to a drainage between the range and Caldwell house, but the Caldwell house was HIGHER than the shooting tables. At 100 yards, the berm would have to have 14 ft of elevation just to be LEVEL with the ground at the shooting tables, plus another 2.5 feet for the height of the shooting table. As ground level for the Caldwell house was 27 feet higher, the berm at 100 yards would need to be in the neighborhood of 30 ft tall just to be out of direct line of sight from the shooting tables. As can be seen in the after-suit images, they still are not that tall today. http://advancedbullets.com/

Quote:
im not saying tires are the best idea, just clarifying. I do know that the ne insurance company had them get an audit by the NRA and they cleared the range, I don't know what that means, but it must be worth something.
No, the COURT had them get inspected by the NRA.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local...range-b/nYT7p/

The range may have met NRA standards, but that doesn't mean rounds were not going over the berm, LOL. Once over, the only thing to stop the rounds is the foliage.

Quote:
I also know they had no complaints until THOSE people moved in, and haven't had any more strays since they left
To quote you...

Quote:
I know absolutely zero facts about the case,
Then you don't know if there were complaints before or not and it does not matter if there weren't. You just got the story the owner gave you. That the house is now rented by a range employee tells you something. You think the employee is going to complain out loud if there is a problem? You think the owner is going to tell you if there was a problem?
-------------------------------------------------

Quote:
What exactly do you think a safe and legal range should do? Close down because people bought land around them and don't like the range?
The range is NOT safe and legal if rounds are leaving the property.
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Old September 6, 2014, 10:01 AM   #43
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Some firing range operators are totally lacking in common sense. Any public firing range owner who operates without liability insurance is an idiot. Many private shooting ranges are negligent homicide cases in waiting. i've had guys argue that big round hay bales make good "backstops" for centerfire rifle rounds.

One civil court case i testified at was against a guy who owned about eight acres of land. He had a 200 yard firing range with a "berm" of old tires, broken concrete and junk about six feet high located 20 feet from the property line: He made a big deal about the woods on the other property stopping bullets. Along with lesser calibers, the guy fired .300 and .338 Win Mag rifles on that inadequate "range".

The neighbor complained about bullets hitting his home and out buildings to no avail. Finally the neighbor sued, and won.

Every bullet that leaves a firing range is engraved with the shooters name.
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