Handgun: 3 die or 4 die

stang46gt · May 7, 2009, 07:46 AM

I am ordering (or back ordering) die sets for .40 S & W and .45 ACP. Which is better, lee 3 die sets or lee 4 die sets? I know the difference is the FCD in the 4 die set.

Any info is appreciated.

DavidAGO · May 7, 2009, 08:05 AM

I reload .45, and use a Rockchucker single stage press. To me, it is worth the extra effort to use the factory crimp die. I would go 4 die.

DavidAGO

stang46gt · May 7, 2009, 08:14 AM

I have the same press. It's not set-up yet. I have all the components and some die but I am going through 3 manuals before I begin. I should have asked this question beofre I ordered the 9mm dies. I got the lee 3 die set.

thanks again.

markr · May 7, 2009, 08:25 AM

You can still order the Crimp die by itself.

stang46gt · May 7, 2009, 08:27 AM

I will order the 9mm FCD when I order the .40 and .45 4 die sets.

Thanks

SL1 · May 7, 2009, 08:29 AM

The real value of 4 die sets to me, at least, is not the so called "factory crimp" aspect of the 4th die. It is the ability to seat the bullet fully before starting to crimp, and usually being able to get more crimp, if needed, than a single die can provide without scraping bullets. (The more crimp aspect is usually only an issue with roll-crimped bullets using heavy charges in revolvers, though.)

In pistol die sets, "factory crimp" means that there is a carbide ring in the base of the die, just like in a sizing die, except that it is a little larger in diameter. ("Factroy crimp means something entirely different in Lees rifle die sets.) The carbide ring's "job" is to make sure that the finished round does not exceed SAAMI diameter specs, which can happen with poor die adjustments elsewhere in the loading process. But, that ring can also tend to resize the case mouth and bullet, especially with lead bullets, which DECREASES case mouth tension because the brass springs back a couple thousandths and the lead does not. That can be a safety issue if it is happening. In one of Lee's FCDs that I have, it will slightly resize the case mouths even on factory loaded jacketed bullets, so that one must be a little too tight. I solved the problem by just using the die body for the next larger cartridge, so that the ring would not touch the cartridge I was actually using. (The internals of all pistol FCDs fit all of the pistol FCD die bodies.)

So, for me, the carbide ring is not doing anything, and I am getting a separate crimping operation just like I would with any other manufacturer's separate taper crimp die. But, it is a good crimp at a good price, so I don't fault the die set.

I actually have other uses for the FCD body. For instance, I can run afired .357 Sig case into a .40 S&W FCD before I run it into the NONcarbide .357 Sig sizing die, and avoid a lot of lubrication problems. I can also use them to size the lower body of by revolver brass, and use the regular sizer just on the upper part of the case where it needs to grip the bullet. That allows me to size all the way down on case bulges without getting that wasp-waist look in my finished loads.

SL1

stang46gt · May 7, 2009, 11:10 AM

SLR1 thanks for the very detailed explanation. I copied it in with my notes for future reference. I appreciate the information and help.

stang

May 7, 2009, 07:46 AM	#1
stang46gt Member Join Date: August 24, 2005 Posts: 84	Handgun: 3 die or 4 die I am ordering (or back ordering) die sets for .40 S & W and .45 ACP. Which is better, lee 3 die sets or lee 4 die sets? I know the difference is the FCD in the 4 die set. Any info is appreciated.

May 7, 2009, 08:14 AM	#3
stang46gt Member Join Date: August 24, 2005 Posts: 84	Thanks for the feedback I have the same press. It's not set-up yet. I have all the components and some die but I am going through 3 manuals before I begin. I should have asked this question beofre I ordered the 9mm dies. I got the lee 3 die set. thanks again.

May 7, 2009, 08:25 AM	#4
markr Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: Arsenal of Democracy Posts: 405	You can still order the Crimp die by itself. __________________ I like to make beer, bullets, and jerky.....but not at the same time. Washed up 11B1P

May 7, 2009, 08:27 AM	#5
stang46gt Member Join Date: August 24, 2005 Posts: 84	Markr I will order the 9mm FCD when I order the .40 and .45 4 die sets. Thanks

May 7, 2009, 08:29 AM	#6
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	The real value of 4 die sets to me, at least, is not the so called "factory crimp" aspect of the 4th die. It is the ability to seat the bullet fully before starting to crimp, and usually being able to get more crimp, if needed, than a single die can provide without scraping bullets. (The more crimp aspect is usually only an issue with roll-crimped bullets using heavy charges in revolvers, though.) In pistol die sets, "factory crimp" means that there is a carbide ring in the base of the die, just like in a sizing die, except that it is a little larger in diameter. ("Factroy crimp means something entirely different in Lees rifle die sets.) The carbide ring's "job" is to make sure that the finished round does not exceed SAAMI diameter specs, which can happen with poor die adjustments elsewhere in the loading process. But, that ring can also tend to resize the case mouth and bullet, especially with lead bullets, which DECREASES case mouth tension because the brass springs back a couple thousandths and the lead does not. That can be a safety issue if it is happening. In one of Lee's FCDs that I have, it will slightly resize the case mouths even on factory loaded jacketed bullets, so that one must be a little too tight. I solved the problem by just using the die body for the next larger cartridge, so that the ring would not touch the cartridge I was actually using. (The internals of all pistol FCDs fit all of the pistol FCD die bodies.) So, for me, the carbide ring is not doing anything, and I am getting a separate crimping operation just like I would with any other manufacturer's separate taper crimp die. But, it is a good crimp at a good price, so I don't fault the die set. I actually have other uses for the FCD body. For instance, I can run afired .357 Sig case into a .40 S&W FCD before I run it into the NONcarbide .357 Sig sizing die, and avoid a lot of lubrication problems. I can also use them to size the lower body of by revolver brass, and use the regular sizer just on the upper part of the case where it needs to grip the bullet. That allows me to size all the way down on case bulges without getting that wasp-waist look in my finished loads. SL1 Last edited by SL1; May 7, 2009 at 02:37 PM. Reason: spelling and typing errors

May 7, 2009, 08:05 AM	#2
DavidAGO Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2008 Location: Magnolia, AR Posts: 340	I reload .45, and use a Rockchucker single stage press. To me, it is worth the extra effort to use the factory crimp die. I would go 4 die. DavidAGO

May 7, 2009, 11:10 AM	#7
stang46gt Member Join Date: August 24, 2005 Posts: 84	SLR, Thanks SLR1 thanks for the very detailed explanation. I copied it in with my notes for future reference. I appreciate the information and help. stang