New to reloading and loading .40 S&W....

RED inSOXicated · January 27, 2013, 07:50 PM

I bought a 1000 brass casings (once fired) from an online store and I have my press set up, got my dies yesterday and getting my measuring tools tomorrow.

I bought a Hornady lock-n-load single stage press and Lee deluxe carbide dies.

When I started with the depriming and sizing die, I noticed a small buckle at the bottom of the casing, it looks like the casing is bellying (if that's the correct terminology) near the bottom, it's slightly noticeable before sizing and gets bigger after sizing.

What's the deal with this? Are these ok to load or better to avoid and toss? Some of the cases are more effected than others but it looks like all of them have some kind of buckle after the sizing die is done with them. (I'm guessing the bad ones were put through a Glock)

I'm pretty sure I have the dies set up correctly according to Lee's directions.

Am I doing something wrong here or is the brass and/or the die bad?

Sevens · January 27, 2013, 08:31 PM

The .40 S&W is a high pressure round and has a sordid history of pooching brass in the manner you describe...and this was much more prevalent in earlier versions of .40 S&W chambered pistols (especially Glock) than it is now. Glock pistols made within the last 4 or so years have very much improved across the board in the support for the case head, which in turn is a safer way to run .40 S&W...or, well, any round.

It sounds like your brass isn't all too desirable at the least, and even less-so for an inexperienced handloader.

I'm sure that many will have an opinion on where you should go from this point, and some will even suggest yet another tool to attempt to specifically address the problem area in that brass.

I will not get on board with that. As a brand new handloader, I think you are better served by starting without that problem. Do you have any of your own fired brass? What's the condition of it?

.40 S&W isn't the handloader's "best ever" friend at the load bench. In handguns, .38 Special absolutely fills that role, but I realize that suggestion isn't likely to help you a whole lot.

I'd like to give you a big flag-waving green light, but I can't do in that in all confidence. Start with better brass...and if possible, start with a different caliber all together.

twice barrel · January 27, 2013, 08:39 PM

If you have "Glocked" cases its difficult to imagine that all of them are. I have to wonder if you still get a bulge upon sizing with those that do not have a bulge before?

If not, then take the time to separate your cases between those with bulges and those that don't (before sizing). Make certain you can load the healthy cases just fine. Later depending upon how many bulged cases you have to deal with if you decide to fool with it you may can lightly lube the cases just as you would without carbide dies and then size them s-l-o-w-l-y. Sometimes this will permit you to restore them to use. If its only a relative few cases I'd just toss'm.

TB

jim8115 · January 27, 2013, 09:12 PM

I am not sure exactly what you mean, a pic would help. But, if you mean that after sizing, the base, right above the rim is slightly larger than the rest of the case.. that appears normal to me. After resizing, mine measure .418, but at the base just above the rim .422. I think this is the base that doesnt make it into the die.

JIM

RED inSOXicated · January 27, 2013, 09:37 PM

according to the Hornady handbook, the nomenclature of the casing, the bellying is happening at bottom of the base of the casing. I'd say the bellying is about maybe an 1/8 of an inch.

I guess I wont be able to make any decision on this until i get my digital measuring tools.

Ill see if my sized casings are within your measurements.

zplinker · January 27, 2013, 10:14 PM

I have seen fired .40 brass measuring as large as .436'', near the base. None of these will ever go through a standard sizing die w/o creating the bulge.

Running them through a Sizemaster Jr., or the Redding/Lee die, should remove the bulge. Realize that the brass has still been weakened in that area, and could be prone to rupture.

For target level loads, they may do fine for a few loadings, but never for top end loads. JMO

oldpapps · January 28, 2013, 11:15 AM

Yo Red, welcome to the forum.

As listed above, it sounds like the bulge effect of a limited supported case. (That was a nice way of saying shot in a glock. I have personnel dis-likes for glocks, so I will not get into that.)

Is the brass reloadable? Yes.
Would I recommended 'that' brass for full house loads? No.

What to do? Lee has/makes a tool to take care of the dreaded glock bulge, http://leeprecision.com/case-conditi...ge-buster-kit/
I have never tried one. No reason, refused to fire a glock.

The .40S&W is a fatter 9MM, ie. pressures run above the 30,000 mark (Pounds per square inch or lead units or copper units pressure or what ever those numbers mean, it's in the 30 thousand range compared to the .45 ACP's 12 to 16 thousand). This is not an indictment, just a fact. Being a short, high pressure case/load, seating depth must be consistent for consistent pressures and velocities. The 40 as with the 9 is small cases and old arthritic fingers sometimes don't deal with them well. Other than that, I have no little problem with the 40.

My 40 loads are new Star Brass and (my) first fired brass for business loads. After that all brass is for practice stuff with lead bullets. I prefer 155 grain bullets, Hornady XTPs and 155 Missouri Bullet's FP cones, both loaded to just over 1000FPS.

As with all loading, always error on the side of safety, take your time and enjoy,

OSOK

greentick · January 28, 2013, 11:24 AM

Just got the lee bulge buster accessory. You use it in conjuntion the the factory crimp die. You take the crimper out of the FCD and are left with the carbide sizer ring. The bulge buster pushes the case all the way through the die and the case pops out the top. I shoot a G20 and figured I can rehab some brass for plinking as prevously mentioned.

I did run some 40cal through and it took the bulge out.

rajbcpa · January 28, 2013, 11:48 AM

...run ALL the cases through a push through re-sizing die like those availible from Lee or Reading. Preferrably, this is done as the first step but Lee says in its push through die directions that it can be used on completed (loaded) cases. I don't recommend this, but apparently, according to Lee, it is safe to do so.

You have bulged (glocked) cases. No big deal. Expect this with this calaber.

greentick · January 28, 2013, 12:48 PM

I've yet to do scientific tests but I suspect the FCD was causing issues with loading rainier 180s in my 10mm. I think the projo was getting resized resulting in keyholing and many shots not even on a 25m target. I had had great results with the rainier 180s in the past. I just dont have any left to set up an experiment. Didn't see to have an issue running FMJs through the FCD, at least not particularly noticable.

In the scheme of this thread, I'd run them thought the bulge buster before loading.

RED inSOXicated · January 28, 2013, 01:21 PM

I appreciate all the replies and the welcome!

looks like that's what I'll have to buy to fix my problem.

Thanks for all the info!

serf 'rett · January 28, 2013, 04:06 PM

Interesting reading.

While I've only loaded about 1.7K 40S&W to date, I have processed over 14K pieces of brass, mostly LEO range pick ups with the signature Glock Belly and rectangle on the primers. I can't remember ever having the belly get worse by sizing. Bellies all iron out and reloaded rounds go "plunk". Makes me wonder if my RCBS die is something special?

rajbcpa · January 28, 2013, 04:38 PM

yes - dies can make a difference. I use a hornady and the bulges do NOT go away after resizing and if they are not pushed through a Lee or Reading bulge die they do not go plunk.....

I have heard the same claim from others, so I do not doubt that your RCBS die re-sizes these without issue.

Maybe I should buy an RCBS die.

serf 'rett · January 28, 2013, 06:36 PM

rajbcpa - Maybe you should borrow a RCBS die, from a friend, before buying...it just might be the way I'm holding my mouth or that suped up Rock Chucker Supreme II just scares the brass belly away.

KillThe9Ball · January 29, 2013, 08:59 AM

I'm new to reloading, but I've yet to have any "crunch's" while resizing.

You have Carbide dies, good. Can't really blame the lack of lube...

While I'm a new re-loader, the 'crunch' you describe kinda sounds like perhaps
you left the 'shell holder' off of the ram before setting the die...

I'm new and have 'crunched' a few cases while learning, but just don't see how this could happen with carbide dies on a straight walled case with a proper shell holder.

What brand of press are you using, and what brand of shell holder (and number) are you using. As I understand it, you are using Lee Carbide dies?

If everything is correct, are the dies clean? I believe that if everything is set correct, but there is a problem with the dies (dirt, gunk), that could cause a crushed case.

Just a few thoughts, things that should be verified.

Please keep in mind, I'm still learning myself.

Good Luck and God Bless

January 27, 2013, 07:50 PM	#1
RED inSOXicated Junior Member Join Date: January 16, 2013 Posts: 3	New to reloading and loading .40 S&W.... I bought a 1000 brass casings (once fired) from an online store and I have my press set up, got my dies yesterday and getting my measuring tools tomorrow. I bought a Hornady lock-n-load single stage press and Lee deluxe carbide dies. When I started with the depriming and sizing die, I noticed a small buckle at the bottom of the casing, it looks like the casing is bellying (if that's the correct terminology) near the bottom, it's slightly noticeable before sizing and gets bigger after sizing. What's the deal with this? Are these ok to load or better to avoid and toss? Some of the cases are more effected than others but it looks like all of them have some kind of buckle after the sizing die is done with them. (I'm guessing the bad ones were put through a Glock) I'm pretty sure I have the dies set up correctly according to Lee's directions. Am I doing something wrong here or is the brass and/or the die bad? Last edited by RED inSOXicated; January 27, 2013 at 08:27 PM.

January 27, 2013, 08:31 PM	#2
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,755	The .40 S&W is a high pressure round and has a sordid history of pooching brass in the manner you describe...and this was much more prevalent in earlier versions of .40 S&W chambered pistols (especially Glock) than it is now. Glock pistols made within the last 4 or so years have very much improved across the board in the support for the case head, which in turn is a safer way to run .40 S&W...or, well, any round. It sounds like your brass isn't all too desirable at the least, and even less-so for an inexperienced handloader. I'm sure that many will have an opinion on where you should go from this point, and some will even suggest yet another tool to attempt to specifically address the problem area in that brass. I will not get on board with that. As a brand new handloader, I think you are better served by starting without that problem. Do you have any of your own fired brass? What's the condition of it? .40 S&W isn't the handloader's "best ever" friend at the load bench. In handguns, .38 Special absolutely fills that role, but I realize that suggestion isn't likely to help you a whole lot. I'd like to give you a big flag-waving green light, but I can't do in that in all confidence. Start with better brass...and if possible, start with a different caliber all together. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

January 28, 2013, 11:24 AM	#8
greentick Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2011 Location: Deep South Posts: 261	Just got the lee bulge buster accessory. You use it in conjuntion the the factory crimp die. You take the crimper out of the FCD and are left with the carbide sizer ring. The bulge buster pushes the case all the way through the die and the case pops out the top. I shoot a G20 and figured I can rehab some brass for plinking as prevously mentioned. I did run some 40cal through and it took the bulge out. __________________ nous défions

January 28, 2013, 12:48 PM	#10
greentick Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2011 Location: Deep South Posts: 261	I've yet to do scientific tests but I suspect the FCD was causing issues with loading rainier 180s in my 10mm. I think the projo was getting resized resulting in keyholing and many shots not even on a 25m target. I had had great results with the rainier 180s in the past. I just dont have any left to set up an experiment. Didn't see to have an issue running FMJs through the FCD, at least not particularly noticable. In the scheme of this thread, I'd run them thought the bulge buster before loading. __________________ nous défions

January 28, 2013, 04:06 PM	#12
serf 'rett Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2009 Location: Stuttgart, AR Posts: 1,569	Interesting reading. While I've only loaded about 1.7K 40S&W to date, I have processed over 14K pieces of brass, mostly LEO range pick ups with the signature Glock Belly and rectangle on the primers. I can't remember ever having the belly get worse by sizing. Bellies all iron out and reloaded rounds go "plunk". Makes me wonder if my RCBS die is something special? __________________ A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part. Last edited by serf 'rett; January 28, 2013 at 06:39 PM.

January 27, 2013, 08:39 PM	#3
twice barrel Member Join Date: November 11, 2009 Posts: 98	If you have "Glocked" cases its difficult to imagine that all of them are. I have to wonder if you still get a bulge upon sizing with those that do not have a bulge before? If not, then take the time to separate your cases between those with bulges and those that don't (before sizing). Make certain you can load the healthy cases just fine. Later depending upon how many bulged cases you have to deal with if you decide to fool with it you may can lightly lube the cases just as you would without carbide dies and then size them s-l-o-w-l-y. Sometimes this will permit you to restore them to use. If its only a relative few cases I'd just toss'm. TB

January 27, 2013, 09:12 PM	#4
jim8115 Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2011 Location: Arkansas Posts: 229	I am not sure exactly what you mean, a pic would help. But, if you mean that after sizing, the base, right above the rim is slightly larger than the rest of the case.. that appears normal to me. After resizing, mine measure .418, but at the base just above the rim .422. I think this is the base that doesnt make it into the die. JIM

January 27, 2013, 09:37 PM	#5
RED inSOXicated Junior Member Join Date: January 16, 2013 Posts: 3	according to the Hornady handbook, the nomenclature of the casing, the bellying is happening at bottom of the base of the casing. I'd say the bellying is about maybe an 1/8 of an inch. I guess I wont be able to make any decision on this until i get my digital measuring tools. Ill see if my sized casings are within your measurements.

January 27, 2013, 10:14 PM	#6
zplinker Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2011 Location: way out here Posts: 262	I have seen fired .40 brass measuring as large as .436'', near the base. None of these will ever go through a standard sizing die w/o creating the bulge. Running them through a Sizemaster Jr., or the Redding/Lee die, should remove the bulge. Realize that the brass has still been weakened in that area, and could be prone to rupture. For target level loads, they may do fine for a few loadings, but never for top end loads. JMO

January 28, 2013, 11:15 AM	#7
oldpapps Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2011 Location: Middle America Posts: 518	Yo Red, welcome to the forum. As listed above, it sounds like the bulge effect of a limited supported case. (That was a nice way of saying shot in a glock. I have personnel dis-likes for glocks, so I will not get into that.) Is the brass reloadable? Yes. Would I recommended 'that' brass for full house loads? No. What to do? Lee has/makes a tool to take care of the dreaded glock bulge, http://leeprecision.com/case-conditi...ge-buster-kit/ I have never tried one. No reason, refused to fire a glock. The .40S&W is a fatter 9MM, ie. pressures run above the 30,000 mark (Pounds per square inch or lead units or copper units pressure or what ever those numbers mean, it's in the 30 thousand range compared to the .45 ACP's 12 to 16 thousand). This is not an indictment, just a fact. Being a short, high pressure case/load, seating depth must be consistent for consistent pressures and velocities. The 40 as with the 9 is small cases and old arthritic fingers sometimes don't deal with them well. Other than that, I have no little problem with the 40. My 40 loads are new Star Brass and (my) first fired brass for business loads. After that all brass is for practice stuff with lead bullets. I prefer 155 grain bullets, Hornady XTPs and 155 Missouri Bullet's FP cones, both loaded to just over 1000FPS. As with all loading, always error on the side of safety, take your time and enjoy, OSOK

January 28, 2013, 11:48 AM	#9
rajbcpa Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2012 Posts: 321	...run ALL the cases through a push through re-sizing die like those availible from Lee or Reading. Preferrably, this is done as the first step but Lee says in its push through die directions that it can be used on completed (loaded) cases. I don't recommend this, but apparently, according to Lee, it is safe to do so. You have bulged (glocked) cases. No big deal. Expect this with this calaber.

January 28, 2013, 01:21 PM	#11
RED inSOXicated Junior Member Join Date: January 16, 2013 Posts: 3	I appreciate all the replies and the welcome! looks like that's what I'll have to buy to fix my problem. Thanks for all the info!

January 28, 2013, 04:38 PM	#13
rajbcpa Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2012 Posts: 321	yes - dies can make a difference. I use a hornady and the bulges do NOT go away after resizing and if they are not pushed through a Lee or Reading bulge die they do not go plunk..... I have heard the same claim from others, so I do not doubt that your RCBS die re-sizes these without issue. Maybe I should buy an RCBS die.

January 28, 2013, 06:36 PM	#14
serf 'rett Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2009 Location: Stuttgart, AR Posts: 1,569	rajbcpa - Maybe you should borrow a RCBS die, from a friend, before buying...it just might be the way I'm holding my mouth or that suped up Rock Chucker Supreme II just scares the brass belly away. __________________ A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part.

January 29, 2013, 08:59 AM	#15
KillThe9Ball Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Location: DFW Posts: 33	I'm new to reloading, but I've yet to have any "crunch's" while resizing. You have Carbide dies, good. Can't really blame the lack of lube... While I'm a new re-loader, the 'crunch' you describe kinda sounds like perhaps you left the 'shell holder' off of the ram before setting the die... I'm new and have 'crunched' a few cases while learning, but just don't see how this could happen with carbide dies on a straight walled case with a proper shell holder. What brand of press are you using, and what brand of shell holder (and number) are you using. As I understand it, you are using Lee Carbide dies? If everything is correct, are the dies clean? I believe that if everything is set correct, but there is a problem with the dies (dirt, gunk), that could cause a crushed case. Just a few thoughts, things that should be verified. Please keep in mind, I'm still learning myself. Good Luck and God Bless

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