.357 mag. loads at .38 velocities

neight · May 29, 2008, 11:38 PM

Recently picked up a S&W 686 4" revolver. I have been putting some full-power rounds through it, but would like to develop a reload for plinking (while still using the .357 mag cases I have as opposed to .38 special). What I'm thinking is that I would like to use cast lead bullets (158 g., probably hornady SWC's) and unique powder to make some loads at about 900 fps out of that 4" barrel. Can I just go ahead and use the .38 special powder charges listed by Alliant, or will I need to put a little more powder in the larger capacity case to get that velocity? any other alternatives that I should think about here for a good plinking round in .357? shooting the full-bore .357 mag is a lot of fun for about 3 or 4 cylinders full ... then i start getting a little weary of the concussion

Grandpa Shooter · May 29, 2008, 11:47 PM

Look in your book for target loads in .357. You can find some softer loads without any big deal.

Scorch · May 30, 2008, 01:04 AM

Sure you can. Here's what I shoot:
Cast lead 158 gr SWC, 5.5 gr Unique- app 950 fps

Very accurate out of my 6" Python, but everything is.

6thMichCav · May 30, 2008, 07:19 AM

Yes, you can use the .38 Special data for your .357. However, the larger case capacity will cause a loss of pressure and therefore velocity, and possibly a change in accuracy.

I also like the idea of using the full-length .357 cases in a .357 revolver. While I'm not concerned as much about cylinder wear from using 'Special cases, using .357's does seem to reduce leading and fouling in the cylinder in my gun.

That said, smaller charges of .357 appear to be position-sensitive in my gun (and some others, according to what I have read). If you shake the powder down against the primer before shooting and carefully level the gun, you will get higher velocity (but not always consistent) than if you shot normally, OR, if you shake the powder down against the bullet.

For that reason, if I want better consistency at lower velocity, I try to go to a higher volume powder, such as SR 4759 or IMR 4227. These aren't the cleanest loads at lower charge weights, but the high powder volume vs. weight (compared to a lower volume powder like 231, Unique, etc.) seems to create more consistent velocity and accuracy results for me.

WESHOOT2 · May 30, 2008, 09:29 AM

Suggest trying 357 Magnum "cowboy" data.

Recommend instead of Unique easier-metering cleaner-burning ballistically-equivalent Hodgdon Universal Clays.

Recommend varying amount of crimp.

Crazy4nitro · May 30, 2008, 10:37 AM

The Old "Standard" .38spcl load was 5.0grs of Unique. *A lil Hot for my .38 IMO*
But That load in a .357 case should make you happy. I have used it for Years.

This is for a 158gr Lead Bullet.

'Nitro

DMZX · May 30, 2008, 10:45 AM

Like WES' said. Look at 'cowboy' load data. And if you want to fill the case, try some Trailboss.

Here is some data from Hodgdon's website:

158 GR. CAST LSWC
IMR Trail Boss
.357" COL 1.610"
Start load - 3.2gr velocity 754 16,500 CUP
Max load - 4.2gr velocity 865 20,400 CUP

AlaskaMike · May 30, 2008, 02:47 PM

I agree with 'Nitro's recommendation of 5 gr. Unique, if you want to stick with Unique. If you're open to other powders, I like 4.5 gr. 231 under a 158 grain SWC.

Mike

neight · May 30, 2008, 08:03 PM

thanks for the input, fellas. i am not dead-set on unique, i just happen to have a lb. of it. seems to work very well in my .44 magnum w/ just 8.0 g. and a 240 g. lead SWC. makes a little smoke cloud, and does seem to foul a little more. but nothing i havent been able to clean up in short order.

jamaica · May 30, 2008, 11:37 PM

I load some for the wife in her S&W Model 60, using Berry's 158 gr RN bullets and 4.5 gr of unique. COL 1.59 Yes, the magnum brass. She is happy with these.

She won't shoot the hot loads in the little gun and I don't blame her. Its a little too much noise and recoil in the Mod 60.

I used the 38 loading data. I don't know what the velocity is, but it is a comfortable load for her to shoot and that is what its all about.

Yoosta B. Blue · May 31, 2008, 07:32 AM

This thread illustrates the need to go back and proofread your post a second and third time before posting. I'm certain that DMZX did not mean to post the bullet weight as "58 GR." and many of us would know that he obviously meant "158 GR." However, for the sake of all readers concerned, let's strive for accuracy, especially when it comes to posting bullet and powder weights. Just my two cents...

Yoosta B. Blue

Bones507 · June 2, 2008, 02:31 AM

I was shooting a 158 gr under 4.0 grs of 231 in a 38 special case and i was getting rounds that were keyholing. Now a buddy of mine showed up with some 158 gr LSWC, same bullet i was shooting, in Win factory 38 +p and they were shooting fine thru my GP-100. Think maybe i should have gone to 4.1 or 4.2 for the next loading or could be i was seating the bullet too far in. Not sure of the reason but i will play with the next batch load up.

pete5409 · June 2, 2008, 10:48 AM

With a 158 grain cast LSWC, dropped in a big bucket of cold water immediately after pouring for tempering, (Lee Alox lubed), try 5.0 grains of red dot or 6.0 grains of bullseye in that .357 case. They´re both accurate and not that much recoil and no fouling at all!!! Check out this link: http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/Index.htm

May 29, 2008, 11:38 PM	#1
neight Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Posts: 24	.357 mag. loads at .38 velocities Recently picked up a S&W 686 4" revolver. I have been putting some full-power rounds through it, but would like to develop a reload for plinking (while still using the .357 mag cases I have as opposed to .38 special). What I'm thinking is that I would like to use cast lead bullets (158 g., probably hornady SWC's) and unique powder to make some loads at about 900 fps out of that 4" barrel. Can I just go ahead and use the .38 special powder charges listed by Alliant, or will I need to put a little more powder in the larger capacity case to get that velocity? any other alternatives that I should think about here for a good plinking round in .357? shooting the full-bore .357 mag is a lot of fun for about 3 or 4 cylinders full ... then i start getting a little weary of the concussion

May 29, 2008, 11:47 PM	#2
Grandpa Shooter Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2007 Posts: 140	Look in your book for target loads in .357. You can find some softer loads without any big deal. __________________ Old enough to know better and way too old to care!

May 30, 2008, 01:04 AM	#3
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Sure you can. Here's what I shoot: Cast lead 158 gr SWC, 5.5 gr Unique- app 950 fps Very accurate out of my 6" Python, but everything is. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

May 30, 2008, 07:19 AM	#4
6thMichCav Member Join Date: May 26, 2008 Posts: 52	Yes...and no... Yes, you can use the .38 Special data for your .357. However, the larger case capacity will cause a loss of pressure and therefore velocity, and possibly a change in accuracy. I also like the idea of using the full-length .357 cases in a .357 revolver. While I'm not concerned as much about cylinder wear from using 'Special cases, using .357's does seem to reduce leading and fouling in the cylinder in my gun. That said, smaller charges of .357 appear to be position-sensitive in my gun (and some others, according to what I have read). If you shake the powder down against the primer before shooting and carefully level the gun, you will get higher velocity (but not always consistent) than if you shot normally, OR, if you shake the powder down against the bullet. For that reason, if I want better consistency at lower velocity, I try to go to a higher volume powder, such as SR 4759 or IMR 4227. These aren't the cleanest loads at lower charge weights, but the high powder volume vs. weight (compared to a lower volume powder like 231, Unique, etc.) seems to create more consistent velocity and accuracy results for me.

May 30, 2008, 09:29 AM	#5
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	"Cowboy" data Suggest trying 357 Magnum "cowboy" data. Recommend instead of Unique easier-metering cleaner-burning ballistically-equivalent Hodgdon Universal Clays. Recommend varying amount of crimp. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

May 30, 2008, 10:37 AM	#6
Crazy4nitro Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2007 Location: Lou-a-vul KY Posts: 142	The Old "Standard" .38spcl load was 5.0grs of Unique. A lil Hot for my .38 IMO But That load in a .357 case should make you happy. I have used it for Years. This is for a 158gr Lead Bullet. 'Nitro __________________ Long Live the .41Mag.........IMO It's the .270 of Magnum Revolvers.

May 30, 2008, 10:45 AM	#7
DMZX Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2007 Location: E. Oregon Posts: 563	Like WES' said. Look at 'cowboy' load data. And if you want to fill the case, try some Trailboss. Here is some data from Hodgdon's website: 158 GR. CAST LSWC IMR Trail Boss .357" COL 1.610" Start load - 3.2gr velocity 754 16,500 CUP Max load - 4.2gr velocity 865 20,400 CUP Last edited by DMZX; May 31, 2008 at 07:45 AM.

May 30, 2008, 02:47 PM	#8
AlaskaMike Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 941	I agree with 'Nitro's recommendation of 5 gr. Unique, if you want to stick with Unique. If you're open to other powders, I like 4.5 gr. 231 under a 158 grain SWC. Mike

May 30, 2008, 08:03 PM	#9
neight Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Posts: 24	thanks for the input, fellas. i am not dead-set on unique, i just happen to have a lb. of it. seems to work very well in my .44 magnum w/ just 8.0 g. and a 240 g. lead SWC. makes a little smoke cloud, and does seem to foul a little more. but nothing i havent been able to clean up in short order.

May 30, 2008, 11:37 PM	#10
jamaica Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2006 Location: Northern Utah Posts: 705	I load some for the wife in her S&W Model 60, using Berry's 158 gr RN bullets and 4.5 gr of unique. COL 1.59 Yes, the magnum brass. She is happy with these. She won't shoot the hot loads in the little gun and I don't blame her. Its a little too much noise and recoil in the Mod 60. I used the 38 loading data. I don't know what the velocity is, but it is a comfortable load for her to shoot and that is what its all about.

May 31, 2008, 07:32 AM	#11
Yoosta B. Blue Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2008 Location: Just a tad NE of the Alamo... Posts: 252	This thread illustrates the need to go back and proofread your post a second and third time before posting. I'm certain that DMZX did not mean to post the bullet weight as "58 GR." and many of us would know that he obviously meant "158 GR." However, for the sake of all readers concerned, let's strive for accuracy, especially when it comes to posting bullet and powder weights. Just my two cents... Yoosta B. Blue

June 2, 2008, 02:31 AM	#12
Bones507 Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2007 Posts: 132	I was shooting a 158 gr under 4.0 grs of 231 in a 38 special case and i was getting rounds that were keyholing. Now a buddy of mine showed up with some 158 gr LSWC, same bullet i was shooting, in Win factory 38 +p and they were shooting fine thru my GP-100. Think maybe i should have gone to 4.1 or 4.2 for the next loading or could be i was seating the bullet too far in. Not sure of the reason but i will play with the next batch load up.

June 2, 2008, 10:48 AM	#13
pete5409 Member Join Date: March 26, 2008 Location: Mexico Posts: 37	With a 158 grain cast LSWC, dropped in a big bucket of cold water immediately after pouring for tempering, (Lee Alox lubed), try 5.0 grains of red dot or 6.0 grains of bullseye in that .357 case. They´re both accurate and not that much recoil and no fouling at all!!! Check out this link: http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/Index.htm