USA Today Article 2/19/13 - Teachers Should Confront Intruder

Buford_Tannen · February 19, 2013, 08:23 PM

So in this mornings edition of USA Today there is a story on Law Enforcement now recommending that teachers confront intruders instead of running or being the victims. In the byline it mentions do so without guns in the school of course. It instructs the teachers to react as violently as possible, including throwing things at the intruder. One LEO states that "We learned from flight 93 that crashed in Pennsylvania on 9/11 that sometimes you have to fight for your life"

Maybe its just me but if I am a teacher I am thinking to myself, "Ok, now I have to confront the armed intruder with by bare hands because the politically correct in this world have deemed I get no armed guard for my school or a weapon of my own." Haven't I now been reduced to cannon fodder for the mentally ill?

If fighting for my life or that of my students is now the recommended course of action, quit being an idiot and give me some lead to throw at my attacker at 1000 ft/sec.

Dr Big Bird PhD · February 19, 2013, 08:35 PM

While I might catch flak for this, what is indeed happening is that these PC people are realizing that gun/violence free zones dont work. By saying that teachers should fight back, they are admitting that the only way to fight evil and violence, is with an equal force. Them moving in this direction can possibly lead to armed teachers, which is the ideal.

Joe_Pike · February 19, 2013, 08:49 PM

Quote:

"We learned from flight 93 that crashed in Pennsylvania on 9/11 that sometimes you have to fight for your life"

Those people still died, and some of them heroes. However, if someone, employed by the airline, would have been armed then it is possible that the outcome would have been totally different for those on that flight.

MTSCMike · February 19, 2013, 08:54 PM

This comes from the latest advice from DHS and the point is this:

If you are confronted with an active shooter and you can't (1) escape or (2) barricade in a safe place, then (3) FIGHT. Why die in the fetal position begging for your life? Stand up and fight. You may still die but you will do so standing on your own two feet and fighting like a free person instead of being a willing victim.

**Aguila Blanca** · February 19, 2013, 09:28 PM

The principal and the school psychologist at Sandy Hook Elementary School "confronted" the shooter. Hardly even slowed him down, and they both died. Teacher Victoria Soto didn't "confront" him, she chose to try to shelter her students. Didn't matter -- she was killed, too.

I find myself becoming very angry when I read "advice" such as this being shoveled out to the masses through the media. It really is a conspiracy. And it's shameful that so many people actually pay attention to it. What sane person would see anything to be gained by having an unarmed teacher (many of whom are women, and many of whom are of smaller stature and/or not in peak physical condition) try to "confront" an active shooter?

Yes, we learned a lot from 9/11 and Todd Beamer, but they (USA Today) forgot to mention that Todd and everyone else on that flight died. They prevented the plane from hitting its intended target, but the passengers are just as dead.

Kevin Rohrer · February 19, 2013, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Why die in the fetal position begging for your life? Stand up and fight. You may still die but you will do so standing on your own two feet and fighting like a free person instead of being a willing victim.

This was recommended by The Colonel >30-years ago.

DVC

David13 · February 19, 2013, 09:56 PM

Fight.
That is pure comedy. Throw a paper clip at him. Or get real serious and throw an eraser, off the chalk board.
How can humans be so stupid.
Ah ...
dc

mehavey · February 19, 2013, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Fight.
That is pure comedy.
How can humans be so stupid.

Words fail me.

Know that were I, or any of those who I raised over the last 45 years, faced with the choice of fight,
or run away to not only leave others to die, but to eventually die myself in some cringing corner...

I would simply go absolutely Berserk.
I have already seen it work.
Sometimes it doesn't.
.
.
.
.
And you'd be amazed at what one man's actions can suddenly instill in others.
Suddenly it's not just one man anymore.

Cowards die many times before their death. The valiant taste of death but once.
Julius Caesar (II, ii, 32-37)

pnac · February 19, 2013, 11:29 PM

It's just more "progressive" nonsense, check this out:

Quote:

Colorado College Advises Vomiting Or Urinating To Stop Rapists After Lawmakers Pass Gun Control Bills

http://www.ibtimes.com/colorado-coll...-control-bills

And this, from Homeland Security no less!:

WASHINGTON — Is your workplace getting shot up by a crazed gunman?

No problem — just grab a pair of scissors and fight back!

That’s some of the helpful advice in a new instructional video from the Department of Homeland Security that was posted on the agency’s Web site just a month after the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nationa...puVezePd6trYoM

Buford_Tannen · February 20, 2013, 09:01 PM

Saw the "Urinate or tell the attacker you have VD" on the news this morning.
Really? How stupid is that? Its been known for years that rapists do not rape people for sex. So how is having VD going to keep a victim from getting maimed or killed?

pnac · February 20, 2013, 09:32 PM

It's like the "lie back and enjoy it" advice of a few years back, anything but the common sense approach of arming yourself so you can fight back.

More and more people are waking up to the fact that self defense is their own responsibility and arming themselves accordingly, some folks seem to find that troubling.

mayosligo · February 20, 2013, 09:41 PM

I guess I would fight back, but how much better would fighting be if I actually had a weapon worth a damn.

Double Naught Spy · February 21, 2013, 08:18 AM

Quote:

So in this mornings edition of USA Today there is a story on Law Enforcement now recommending that teachers confront intruders instead of running or being the victims. In the byline it mentions do so without guns in the school of course. It instructs the teachers to react as violently as possible, including throwing things at the intruder. One LEO states that "We learned from flight 93 that crashed in Pennsylvania on 9/11 that sometimes you have to fight for your life"

You diidn't post a link to the story and after a brief search, I could not find the particular story to which you were referring (internet force not strong with me this morning). The only story from the 19th I could find was on teachers carrying guns in AZ. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...hools/1931429/

However, confronting an intruder is NOT exclusive from being a victim. Having a gun is not exclusive from being a victim. Lots of

Quote:

Maybe its just me but if I am a teacher I am thinking to myself, "Ok, now I have to confront the armed intruder with by bare hands because the politically correct in this world have deemed I get no armed guard for my school or a weapon of my own." Haven't I now been reduced to cannon fodder for the mentally ill?

You apparently didn't pay attention to the article or what you wrote to summarize it. Why would you necessarily use your bare hands when you can use various weapons of opportunity in the classroom? Also, nobody says you HAVE TO confront the intruder. It is just a suggested course of action, one of which is your call to implement given the situation.

Quote:

It's like the "lie back and enjoy it" advice of a few years back, anything but the common sense approach of arming yourself so you can fight back.

That comment was made by pro-gun Republican Texas gubernatorial candidate Clayton Williams back around 1980 (more than just a few years ago). It was made in the context of a joke about the weather, not actually meant as true self defense advice. The statement was so outrageous and offensive that it became a signifificant factor in Willimams' loss of the election...to Democrat Ann Richards, the first elected female governor of Texas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clayton_Williams
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Richards

thallub · February 21, 2013, 08:40 AM

Link to the USA Today article dated 2/18/2013:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...oters/1920601/

Yep, some teachers in CT confronted Adam Lanza.

BTW: There was an altercation between Adam Lanza and teachers at the school a day or two before the massacre.

Allow teachers who hold concealed carry permits to pack at school. Silly me, the anti-self defense, anti-gun blissninnies won't allow that.

From the article:

Quote:

Police officials said they were not advocating arming teachers, students, office workers or others to prepare for such attacks; they also emphasized that confronting the attacker should always be the last option.

Double Naught Spy · February 21, 2013, 09:42 AM

Thanks for finding the correct story.

Right, so fighting back means you have a chance to forcefully help determine your fate, but does not preclude you from being a victim. With that said, this notion of fighting back is not a new idea. There have been instructional videos on this distributed or shown to various districts for several years. Maybe fighting back is gaining steam.

Quote:

BTW: There was an altercation between Adam Lanza and teachers at the school a day or two before the massacre.

So not completely random and he apparently killed three of the four with whom he had the confrontation.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...-lanza-1493709

Buford_Tannen · February 21, 2013, 07:06 PM

Double Naught

Yes, I summarized because I think spending time to look for a weapon is pretty close to a no win scenario. Perhaps a teacher could quickly search the classroom for things to throw at the intruder. The reality is in pre-school or grade school classroom, someone with a gun comes into the room the teacher is going to be immediately surrounded by 28+ scared children. What teacher would leave them unprotected by going to get something to throw? (Oh and things dangerous to adults are usually more so to young children.)

Sorry but your, think fast, look for a weapon approach is flawed. There is no time to do so. Not an expert but it would seem 3-5 seconds at most before bad things start to happen. Only thing I have to throw at the intruder is me. That's what some teachers in Newton did. Not a very successful strategy.

Evan Thomas · February 21, 2013, 07:19 PM

I just ran through the "Active Shooter Preparedness" online course on the DHS website. It goes into much more depth about before/after stuff, but the basic advice for "during" is still (1) evacuate if you can, (2) hide if you can't, (3) fight back as a last resort if your life is in imminent danger.

Despite a great deal of attention paid to how to prepare for the possibility of such an event: know where the exits are even if you're a visitor, etc. -- NO mention was made of considering, ahead of time, what objects in the immediate area might serve as weapons of opportunity.

I'd conclude from this that the folks who put this together don't really see fighting back as a real possibility, nor do they want to encourage it.

thallub · February 21, 2013, 08:16 PM

It seems the term "active shooter" has become vogue. Are there any "inactive shooters."

Never mind, i looked it up. Looks like the term originated with the Dep't of Homeland Security.

USMC EOD · February 21, 2013, 09:21 PM

They want you to fight back, but disarm you so you cannot fight back effectively. Liberals are so stupid!

**Frank Ettin** · February 21, 2013, 09:37 PM

What's significant here is what may be essentially the beginnings of a paradigm shift.

It's very important and hopeful that the notion of fighting back is, perhaps, starting to gain some traction. We've been becoming too inclined to passivity.

The first step is coming to the understanding that there are times and circumstances when the right thing is for the good guy to fight back against the bad guy. That realization needs to begin to take root. From there we can start talking about the right ways, the right tools, when and how.

But first we need to break through that "violence is always bad, even by good guys" conceptual barrier that seems to have become pervasive in our modern, urbanized world.

pax · February 21, 2013, 10:34 PM

I had a long conversation with a relative of mine the other day. She's an elementary school teacher in a rough district in another state. We started talking about what she could do, within the rules of her district, to protect her children.

First, she decided to place some useful things in her classroom. These are all common objects that absolutely no one would think twice about, not even the kids.

1) There's a baseball bat leaning in the corner near the door.
2) Heavy three-hole punch located conveniently on the corner of her desk.
3) Grownup scissors inside her desk drawer.

Her classroom door has a window in it. She has a stack of black construction paper and some tape right next to the door. If they go into lockdown, she will cover that window after she locks the door.

The door swings outward, so no use getting a rubber door stop. However, she has a paracord bracelet on a high shelf, along with a plan for lashing the doorknob to her heavy desk in case the intruder has a master key to the school.

One wall of the classroom has knee-to-ceiling windows. She has visualized breaking one of those windows with a chair, and has a heavy rug from the classroom that she could throw over the opening to keep anyone from getting cut as they climb out, if they need to flee for any reason.

The kids all know that if the lockdown alarm sounds, the "class monitor" (special kid for the day) needs to pull the big curtains closed while everyone else gets out of sight in the safest corner of the room.

This isn't the same thing as if she had a gun and was prepared to use it, but it's a whole lot better than, "If the alarm sounds, just hide."

pax

SPEMack618 · February 21, 2013, 10:38 PM

Pax,

Thanks for sharing that. I'm going to print that and give it to my Mother and ask her what she thinks.

Obviously, not all of that will apply to her classroom, for instance her door swings inward and she only has one window, but the rest of your advice is superb!

KBP75 · February 21, 2013, 10:46 PM

Hopefully, I can add something to this discussion. I am a retired High School teacher with 32 years of teaching. For many years, I kept a handgun and hunting rifle in my truck to go hunting after school. The shop teacher had students bring in their guns to school to do minor repairs(he was a gunsmith) In metal shop, he taught the students how to make knives and black powder cannons. We had a rifle team that practiced after school.(on SCHOOL PROPERTY) For Health class, the health teacher brought in several types of handguns to teach handgun safety. We never had a problem, no shootings, or mass murders of any kind! Since the "no gun zone for schools" laws have been passed, there have been hundreds of school shootings and it seems only to be getting worse. In our school, since the first mass killings at Colinbine, we have had a SRO( School Resource Officer) and that has worked out fine. I am against requiring or expecting teachers to provide security for students, but by making it illegal for teachers with concealed carry permits or hunting licenses to even possess firearms locked up in their vehicles or handy in case of need, the politicians have made us all easy marks for mass killings. Even the smallest penknife, pictures of guns or discussions of guns has become illegal and bad. People are killed every day by cars and we have drivers education and it isn't illegal for students of age with licenses to drive to school! We are allowed to talk about disease and how to keep healthy but not talk about gun safety or even show the do's and don'ts of proper firearms safety. We are not allowed to protect ourself anymore and most schools are soft targets of high interest by mentally ill individuals. Ask the President, are his kids protected by just anti-gun laws or by armed guards? And yes, our school kids are at risk today because sick people know if they get in to a school, they will be able to kill at will. What are we as teachers going to do? Throw pencils at the killers?

lockedcj7 · February 21, 2013, 10:52 PM

One of our local school districts is adopting the A.L.I.C.E. training model. I've read as much as I can and watched the videos. It makes a helluva lot more sense than anything else out there. The only thing that would make more sense would be to let me actually carry a weapon that I might be able use to defend my students.

tynman · February 21, 2013, 10:52 PM

WOW they say teachers make to much money and have the summer off.... They don't work hard enough... Now they want them to be targets for the nut with a bunch of guns and ammo... How could you ask anyone to do something like that..... What is wrong with these people!!!!

I say give a few teachers in every school the training and a concealed weapon and make them qualify 2 times a year like the cops do and there is your security when they are needed to protect our kids in school....

February 19, 2013, 08:23 PM	#1
Buford_Tannen Member Join Date: November 5, 2012 Posts: 25	USA Today Article 2/19/13 - Teachers Should Confront Intruder So in this mornings edition of USA Today there is a story on Law Enforcement now recommending that teachers confront intruders instead of running or being the victims. In the byline it mentions do so without guns in the school of course. It instructs the teachers to react as violently as possible, including throwing things at the intruder. One LEO states that "We learned from flight 93 that crashed in Pennsylvania on 9/11 that sometimes you have to fight for your life" Maybe its just me but if I am a teacher I am thinking to myself, "Ok, now I have to confront the armed intruder with by bare hands because the politically correct in this world have deemed I get no armed guard for my school or a weapon of my own." Haven't I now been reduced to cannon fodder for the mentally ill? If fighting for my life or that of my students is now the recommended course of action, quit being an idiot and give me some lead to throw at my attacker at 1000 ft/sec.

February 19, 2013, 08:35 PM	#2
Dr Big Bird PhD Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2012 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 779	While I might catch flak for this, what is indeed happening is that these PC people are realizing that gun/violence free zones dont work. By saying that teachers should fight back, they are admitting that the only way to fight evil and violence, is with an equal force. Them moving in this direction can possibly lead to armed teachers, which is the ideal. __________________ I told the new me, "Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads: 'Today is the first day of the rest of your life.'" But the old me met me with a sign that read: "Welcome back." Who you are is not a function of where you are. -Off Minor

February 19, 2013, 08:54 PM	#4
MTSCMike Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2011 Location: Middle TN Posts: 164	This comes from the latest advice from DHS and the point is this: If you are confronted with an active shooter and you can't (1) escape or (2) barricade in a safe place, then (3) FIGHT. Why die in the fetal position begging for your life? Stand up and fight. You may still die but you will do so standing on your own two feet and fighting like a free person instead of being a willing victim. __________________ IDPA Member A00640 Founding Charter Member - Middle Tennessee Shooter's Club

February 19, 2013, 09:28 PM	#5
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,460	The principal and the school psychologist at Sandy Hook Elementary School "confronted" the shooter. Hardly even slowed him down, and they both died. Teacher Victoria Soto didn't "confront" him, she chose to try to shelter her students. Didn't matter -- she was killed, too. I find myself becoming very angry when I read "advice" such as this being shoveled out to the masses through the media. It really is a conspiracy. And it's shameful that so many people actually pay attention to it. What sane person would see anything to be gained by having an unarmed teacher (many of whom are women, and many of whom are of smaller stature and/or not in peak physical condition) try to "confront" an active shooter? Yes, we learned a lot from 9/11 and Todd Beamer, but they (USA Today) forgot to mention that Todd and everyone else on that flight died. They prevented the plane from hitting its intended target, but the passengers are just as dead. Last edited by Aguila Blanca; February 20, 2013 at 06:13 AM. Reason: spelling

February 20, 2013, 09:32 PM	#11
pnac Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2008 Posts: 550	It's like the "lie back and enjoy it" advice of a few years back, anything but the common sense approach of arming yourself so you can fight back. More and more people are waking up to the fact that self defense is their own responsibility and arming themselves accordingly, some folks seem to find that troubling. __________________ In my hour of darkness In my time of need Oh Lord grant me vision Oh Lord grant me speed - Gram Parsons

February 19, 2013, 09:56 PM	#7
David13 Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2012 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 243	Fight. That is pure comedy. Throw a paper clip at him. Or get real serious and throw an eraser, off the chalk board. How can humans be so stupid. Ah ... dc

February 20, 2013, 09:01 PM	#10
Buford_Tannen Member Join Date: November 5, 2012 Posts: 25	Saw the "Urinate or tell the attacker you have VD" on the news this morning. Really? How stupid is that? Its been known for years that rapists do not rape people for sex. So how is having VD going to keep a victim from getting maimed or killed?

February 20, 2013, 09:41 PM	#12
mayosligo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 301	USA Today Article 2/19/13 - Teachers Should Confront Intruder I guess I would fight back, but how much better would fighting be if I actually had a weapon worth a damn.

February 21, 2013, 07:06 PM	#16
Buford_Tannen Member Join Date: November 5, 2012 Posts: 25	Double Naught Yes, I summarized because I think spending time to look for a weapon is pretty close to a no win scenario. Perhaps a teacher could quickly search the classroom for things to throw at the intruder. The reality is in pre-school or grade school classroom, someone with a gun comes into the room the teacher is going to be immediately surrounded by 28+ scared children. What teacher would leave them unprotected by going to get something to throw? (Oh and things dangerous to adults are usually more so to young children.) Sorry but your, think fast, look for a weapon approach is flawed. There is no time to do so. Not an expert but it would seem 3-5 seconds at most before bad things start to happen. Only thing I have to throw at the intruder is me. That's what some teachers in Newton did. Not a very successful strategy.

February 21, 2013, 07:19 PM	#17
Evan Thomas Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2008 Location: Upper midwest Posts: 5,631	I just ran through the "Active Shooter Preparedness" online course on the DHS website. It goes into much more depth about before/after stuff, but the basic advice for "during" is still (1) evacuate if you can, (2) hide if you can't, (3) fight back as a last resort if your life is in imminent danger. Despite a great deal of attention paid to how to prepare for the possibility of such an event: know where the exits are even if you're a visitor, etc. -- NO mention was made of considering, ahead of time, what objects in the immediate area might serve as weapons of opportunity. I'd conclude from this that the folks who put this together don't really see fighting back as a real possibility, nor do they want to encourage it. __________________ Never let anything mechanical know you're in a hurry.

February 21, 2013, 08:16 PM	#18
thallub Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Location: South Western OK Posts: 3,112	It seems the term "active shooter" has become vogue. Are there any "inactive shooters." Never mind, i looked it up. Looks like the term originated with the Dep't of Homeland Security. Last edited by thallub; February 21, 2013 at 08:36 PM.

February 21, 2013, 09:21 PM	#19
USMC EOD Member Join Date: January 6, 2013 Location: Virginia Posts: 60	They want you to fight back, but disarm you so you cannot fight back effectively. Liberals are so stupid!

February 21, 2013, 09:37 PM	#20
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	What's significant here is what may be essentially the beginnings of a paradigm shift. It's very important and hopeful that the notion of fighting back is, perhaps, starting to gain some traction. We've been becoming too inclined to passivity. The first step is coming to the understanding that there are times and circumstances when the right thing is for the good guy to fight back against the bad guy. That realization needs to begin to take root. From there we can start talking about the right ways, the right tools, when and how. But first we need to break through that "violence is always bad, even by good guys" conceptual barrier that seems to have become pervasive in our modern, urbanized world. __________________ "It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

February 21, 2013, 10:34 PM	#21
pax Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: In a state of flux Posts: 7,520	I had a long conversation with a relative of mine the other day. She's an elementary school teacher in a rough district in another state. We started talking about what she could do, within the rules of her district, to protect her children. First, she decided to place some useful things in her classroom. These are all common objects that absolutely no one would think twice about, not even the kids. 1) There's a baseball bat leaning in the corner near the door. 2) Heavy three-hole punch located conveniently on the corner of her desk. 3) Grownup scissors inside her desk drawer. Her classroom door has a window in it. She has a stack of black construction paper and some tape right next to the door. If they go into lockdown, she will cover that window after she locks the door. The door swings outward, so no use getting a rubber door stop. However, she has a paracord bracelet on a high shelf, along with a plan for lashing the doorknob to her heavy desk in case the intruder has a master key to the school. One wall of the classroom has knee-to-ceiling windows. She has visualized breaking one of those windows with a chair, and has a heavy rug from the classroom that she could throw over the opening to keep anyone from getting cut as they climb out, if they need to flee for any reason. The kids all know that if the lockdown alarm sounds, the "class monitor" (special kid for the day) needs to pull the big curtains closed while everyone else gets out of sight in the safest corner of the room. This isn't the same thing as if she had a gun and was prepared to use it, but it's a whole lot better than, "If the alarm sounds, just hide." pax __________________ Kathy Jackson My personal website: Cornered Cat

February 21, 2013, 10:38 PM	#22
SPEMack618 Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2010 Location: Central Georgia Posts: 1,863	Pax, Thanks for sharing that. I'm going to print that and give it to my Mother and ask her what she thinks. Obviously, not all of that will apply to her classroom, for instance her door swings inward and she only has one window, but the rest of your advice is superb! __________________ NRA Life Member Read my blog! "The answer to any caliber debate is going to be .38 Super, 10mm, .357 Sig or .41 Magnum!"

February 21, 2013, 10:46 PM	#23
KBP75 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Posts: 315	teachers with guns Hopefully, I can add something to this discussion. I am a retired High School teacher with 32 years of teaching. For many years, I kept a handgun and hunting rifle in my truck to go hunting after school. The shop teacher had students bring in their guns to school to do minor repairs(he was a gunsmith) In metal shop, he taught the students how to make knives and black powder cannons. We had a rifle team that practiced after school.(on SCHOOL PROPERTY) For Health class, the health teacher brought in several types of handguns to teach handgun safety. We never had a problem, no shootings, or mass murders of any kind! Since the "no gun zone for schools" laws have been passed, there have been hundreds of school shootings and it seems only to be getting worse. In our school, since the first mass killings at Colinbine, we have had a SRO( School Resource Officer) and that has worked out fine. I am against requiring or expecting teachers to provide security for students, but by making it illegal for teachers with concealed carry permits or hunting licenses to even possess firearms locked up in their vehicles or handy in case of need, the politicians have made us all easy marks for mass killings. Even the smallest penknife, pictures of guns or discussions of guns has become illegal and bad. People are killed every day by cars and we have drivers education and it isn't illegal for students of age with licenses to drive to school! We are allowed to talk about disease and how to keep healthy but not talk about gun safety or even show the do's and don'ts of proper firearms safety. We are not allowed to protect ourself anymore and most schools are soft targets of high interest by mentally ill individuals. Ask the President, are his kids protected by just anti-gun laws or by armed guards? And yes, our school kids are at risk today because sick people know if they get in to a school, they will be able to kill at will. What are we as teachers going to do? Throw pencils at the killers? Last edited by KBP75; February 21, 2013 at 10:53 PM.

February 21, 2013, 10:52 PM	#24
lockedcj7 Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2007 Posts: 1,215	One of our local school districts is adopting the A.L.I.C.E. training model. I've read as much as I can and watched the videos. It makes a helluva lot more sense than anything else out there. The only thing that would make more sense would be to let me actually carry a weapon that I might be able use to defend my students. __________________ To a much greater extent than most mechanical devices, firearms are terribly unforgiving of any overconfidence, complacency or negligence.

February 21, 2013, 10:52 PM	#25
tynman Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Location: NJ Posts: 361	WOW they say teachers make to much money and have the summer off.... They don't work hard enough... Now they want them to be targets for the nut with a bunch of guns and ammo... How could you ask anyone to do something like that..... What is wrong with these people!!!! I say give a few teachers in every school the training and a concealed weapon and make them qualify 2 times a year like the cops do and there is your security when they are needed to protect our kids in school....