N.J. shootout - which shotgun(s) involved?

Doc Intrepid · July 17, 2009, 12:48 PM

"5 cops shot in N.J. shoot-out" -

"One of the suspects had "some kind of automatic shotgun," Mayor Jerramiah Healy said.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...t_N.htm?csp=34

Recognizing we're talking about politicians and reporters characterizing weapons, I am wondering whether any of you out there have additional facts regarding which shotgun(s) was/were used by the BGs.

I'm familiar with a fully-automatic shotgun known as the AA-12:
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/02/aa-12-automatic/

(link to video clip)

But I hope sincerely that these are not out there in BG hands...

Would anyone better informed kindly educate me as to whether a fully-automatic shotgun (or AA-12 'machine-shotgun') or which other weapon was used on these police officers?

Thanks,

Doc

Sam815 · July 17, 2009, 03:20 PM

I believe it was a 12ga. pump with a pistol grip stock. From the photo in the paper it my have been a Mesa Tactical or some other kind which has the collapsable stock with the shell holders.

johnwilliamson062 · July 17, 2009, 03:36 PM

you could probably make a saiga 12 full auto relatively easily, considering it is the AK action. May be a variant available.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUe4NWiOq5A
and there you go.

Scattergun Bob · July 17, 2009, 08:34 PM

The words Automatic Shotgun, does not necessarily mean Fully-Automatic (class III) shotgun. Many folks in our shooting community interchange the words to mean a self-loading variety of scattergun.

There does not seem to be a clear picture of the weapon, so I can not make a opinion on the weapon.

Very few fully auto scatterguns are in inventory, and converting a semi into full is more difficult than one would think. Most conversions like the Remingtons M7188 and Winchesters box magizined 1400SP were cranky, prone to stoppages and difficulty to keep in the fight.

Latter full auto guns such as the USAS-12, The Atchisson, and the AA-12 are heavily regulated and hopefully should not show up in street punks hands.

Remember in trained hands with a bit of practice a semi in good condition and with the right loads can function at near full auto capabilities. Just watch Mr. Knapp some time!

Good Luck and be safe

Csspecs · July 17, 2009, 09:24 PM

Meh probably a pump gun and the guy was fast with it.

xjmox14x · July 18, 2009, 09:42 AM

Let's not forget that sometimes people see a pistol grip shotgun and automatically think "assault weapon fully auto bazooka!!!!"

...Apparently the mayor said it, who knows when and where he got that info from.

Doc Intrepid · July 18, 2009, 10:46 AM

Thank you, gents, I appreciate your responses.

One of the quotes in an accompanying article was words to the effect "this shotgun was made for combat not hunting", and together with Mayor Healy's comments I hoped to determine what specific weapon had been used.

It could also have been a street sweeper shotgun - I had not seen any AP photos, so could not estimate sizes, etc.

Thanks again for your comments...

Doc

RaisedByWolves · July 18, 2009, 08:07 PM

Local paper had the Mayor quoted as saying, "Guns like that are only used for hunting people".

They should be fined for lies like this.

Double Naught Spy · July 18, 2009, 08:31 PM

Quote:

The words Automatic Shotgun, does not necessarily mean Fully-Automatic (class III) shotgun. Many folks in our shooting community interchange the words to mean a self-loading variety of scattergun.

Many folks use the terminology that way because it has been that way for a very long time. For example, the 1911 is an automatic pistol that fires the Automatic Colt Pistol cartridge in .45 caliber called .45 ACP. So your automatic shotgun is an automatic loading shotgun, not automatic firing shotgun.

Crosshair · July 18, 2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

you could probably make a saiga 12 full auto relatively easily

A "proper" full auto conversion is not easy on the AK. You have to drill holes in the receiver that scream "Attempted conversion" to anyone who looks at the gun. You also need a whole new trigger group.

If your a decent machinist with access to a shop, then yea, it could be "easy".

July 17, 2009, 12:48 PM	#1
Doc Intrepid Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2009 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,037	N.J. shootout - which shotgun(s) involved? "5 cops shot in N.J. shoot-out" - "One of the suspects had "some kind of automatic shotgun," Mayor Jerramiah Healy said. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...t_N.htm?csp=34 Recognizing we're talking about politicians and reporters characterizing weapons, I am wondering whether any of you out there have additional facts regarding which shotgun(s) was/were used by the BGs. I'm familiar with a fully-automatic shotgun known as the AA-12: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/02/aa-12-automatic/ (link to video clip) But I hope sincerely that these are not out there in BG hands... Would anyone better informed kindly educate me as to whether a fully-automatic shotgun (or AA-12 'machine-shotgun') or which other weapon was used on these police officers? Thanks, Doc __________________ *Treat everyone you meet with dignity and respect....but have a plan to kill them just in case.*

July 17, 2009, 08:34 PM	#4
Scattergun Bob Senior Member Join Date: February 29, 2008 Location: Nine Mile Falls, Washington Posts: 1,186	Doc Intrepid The words Automatic Shotgun, does not necessarily mean Fully-Automatic (class III) shotgun. Many folks in our shooting community interchange the words to mean a self-loading variety of scattergun. There does not seem to be a clear picture of the weapon, so I can not make a opinion on the weapon. Very few fully auto scatterguns are in inventory, and converting a semi into full is more difficult than one would think. Most conversions like the Remingtons M7188 and Winchesters box magizined 1400SP were cranky, prone to stoppages and difficulty to keep in the fight. Latter full auto guns such as the USAS-12, The Atchisson, and the AA-12 are heavily regulated and hopefully should not show up in street punks hands. Remember in trained hands with a bit of practice a semi in good condition and with the right loads can function at near full auto capabilities. Just watch Mr. Knapp some time! Good Luck and be safe __________________ First, with the most, WINS! Regards, Scattergun Bob

July 17, 2009, 03:20 PM	#2
Sam815 Member Join Date: October 15, 2004 Posts: 31	I believe it was a 12ga. pump with a pistol grip stock. From the photo in the paper it my have been a Mesa Tactical or some other kind which has the collapsable stock with the shell holders.

July 17, 2009, 03:36 PM	#3
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	you could probably make a saiga 12 full auto relatively easily, considering it is the AK action. May be a variant available. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUe4NWiOq5A and there you go.

July 17, 2009, 09:24 PM	#5
Csspecs Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Posts: 1,111	Meh probably a pump gun and the guy was fast with it.

July 18, 2009, 09:42 AM	#6
xjmox14x Member Join Date: January 21, 2006 Location: NY Posts: 98	Let's not forget that sometimes people see a pistol grip shotgun and automatically think "assault weapon fully auto bazooka!!!!" ...Apparently the mayor said it, who knows when and where he got that info from.

July 18, 2009, 08:07 PM	#8
RaisedByWolves Member Join Date: November 27, 2008 Posts: 48	Local paper had the Mayor quoted as saying, "Guns like that are only used for hunting people". They should be fined for lies like this.