Starline .45 and .45+P brass comparison

imarkay · January 1, 2011, 01:23 PM

I am in the process of setting up my new LnL AP press. I will be loading for my new Springfield Loaded Target 1911 .45acp. I was on the Starline Brass website looking for new .45 brass and noticed they offer the .45acp in 2 variations....the original .45 and a +P variation.

The site says "The 45 Auto+P is a strengthened version of the 45 Auto with the same external dimensions. A thicker web and heavier sidewall at base strengthens the case in potentially unsupported areas. This case has approximately 2 grains less internal water capacity than the standard 45 Auto."

I think it runs an extra 10 bucks per 500 for the stronger case. Would I be making any mistake buying the +P brass...? I plan to load a conventional .45 round like 230gr ball at 850fps or so. If the brass is stronger maybe it would last longer? Or am I being a Tim Allen about this, stronger, thicker must be better?

**Unclenick** · January 1, 2011, 01:35 PM

Welcome to the forum.

The 1911's leave an unsupported back underside edge of the cases. Even commercial hardball can get pregnant (bulge on one side) in them, so the +P brass is not a bad idea in them for case life. If the gun (I haven't looked it up) has an integral ramp barrel, though, which supports the case pretty completely, then I wouldn't spend the extra money.

WESHOOT2 · January 1, 2011, 06:13 PM

Not worth the expense for your intended purpose.

That'll Do · January 1, 2011, 06:54 PM

I'd purchase the standard (non +P) version, based on the loads you intend to work up and use.

jake556 · January 16, 2011, 10:42 PM

whichever is cheaper, you can find once fired for $55 per 1000 IMHO this is where I would get my brass. No more new brass for me

goodspeed(TPF) · January 16, 2011, 10:47 PM

Don't waste your money.

**Mal H** · January 17, 2011, 12:18 AM

Another reason not to buy the +P cases if you're not actually going to be loading +P rounds is because the internal capacity being less than a standard case, the pressure from published loads will be higher, all other things being equal. That means none of your .45 ACP load manuals will be correct. They may not be off by much, but the hassle and uncertainty isn't worth it.

Clark · January 17, 2011, 03:16 AM

I called Starline about the 45acp +P brass and talked to the man.

He says +P brass is for hot loads in pistols with poor case support.

He says the 45 Super brass is for even hotter loads for pistols with good case support. He says it has some better heat treat.

He says that the 460 Rowland brass is the same as the 45 Super brass, but longer.

My experiments show that all brands of 45acp brass [including Starline 45 Super] fails at the same point in a work up, except Starline +P, which has thicker walls, and thus less case capacity.

Joe D'Alessandro at realguns has different conclusions than me, and he usually knows what he is talking about.

So either we got different batches to cross section or one of us made a mistake.

I built this 45acp 11 years ago on a 1903 Turk Mauser, and it has served me will for high performance testing and shooting groups at 100 yards.

CherokeeT · January 17, 2011, 06:33 PM

For 1911 use, standard 45 ACP brass is what you want.

overkill0084 · January 18, 2011, 11:59 AM

^^^ what he said. If you were shooting hot loads out of a pistol that that doesn't support the brass, then maybe. Spend the extra money on something else.

Poodleshooter · January 18, 2011, 04:22 PM

This is why they make thicker web .45 brass:

(This is about 100+ rounds of an under maximum load of either Clays,Titegroup or Bullseye under a 230gr LRN in a Glock 30 that I no longer own).

RickB · January 18, 2011, 06:06 PM

I'm currently running Clays at .3 over max recommended load, and have never seen any evidence of bulging in any of my guns or with any of my mixed commercial and G.I. brass. There's something very wrong with the gun that fired the rounds that produced the pictured cases.

chiefr · January 18, 2011, 09:48 PM

I would like to add that I am very impressed with Starline brass of all calibers. This stuff will take a lot of abuse. You have made a great choice. I consider Starline a superior product.

m&p45acp10+1 · January 19, 2011, 05:08 AM

While the Starline does sound good. I use range brass. I have a 5 gal. bucket full of sized, and belled cases to reload .45 ACP with. If I had to buy brass I would probably buy the cheapest stuff I could find. I loose it long before it splits.

January 1, 2011, 01:23 PM	#1
imarkay Junior Member Join Date: October 13, 2008 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 1	Starline .45 and .45+P brass comparison I am in the process of setting up my new LnL AP press. I will be loading for my new Springfield Loaded Target 1911 .45acp. I was on the Starline Brass website looking for new .45 brass and noticed they offer the .45acp in 2 variations....the original .45 and a +P variation. The site says "The 45 Auto+P is a strengthened version of the 45 Auto with the same external dimensions. A thicker web and heavier sidewall at base strengthens the case in potentially unsupported areas. This case has approximately 2 grains less internal water capacity than the standard 45 Auto." I think it runs an extra 10 bucks per 500 for the stronger case. Would I be making any mistake buying the +P brass...? I plan to load a conventional .45 round like 230gr ball at 850fps or so. If the brass is stronger maybe it would last longer? Or am I being a Tim Allen about this, stronger, thicker must be better?

January 1, 2011, 01:35 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Welcome to the forum. The 1911's leave an unsupported back underside edge of the cases. Even commercial hardball can get pregnant (bulge on one side) in them, so the +P brass is not a bad idea in them for case life. If the gun (I haven't looked it up) has an integral ramp barrel, though, which supports the case pretty completely, then I wouldn't spend the extra money. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 1, 2011, 06:13 PM	#3
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	Not worth the expense for your intended purpose. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

January 16, 2011, 10:47 PM	#6
goodspeed(TPF) Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2009 Location: WI Posts: 1,162	Don't waste your money. __________________ It's a trick. Get an axe. http://www.thepiratefleet.com/index.shtml

January 17, 2011, 06:33 PM	#9
CherokeeT Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2008 Location: Medina, Ohio Posts: 273	For 1911 use, standard 45 ACP brass is what you want. __________________ God Bless America US Army, NRA Endowment TSRA Life, SASS

January 1, 2011, 06:54 PM	#4
That'll Do Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 546	I'd purchase the standard (non +P) version, based on the loads you intend to work up and use.

January 16, 2011, 10:42 PM	#5
jake556 Member Join Date: November 12, 2010 Posts: 25	whichever is cheaper, you can find once fired for $55 per 1000 IMHO this is where I would get my brass. No more new brass for me

January 17, 2011, 12:18 AM	#7
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,955	Another reason not to buy the +P cases if you're not actually going to be loading +P rounds is because the internal capacity being less than a standard case, the pressure from published loads will be higher, all other things being equal. That means none of your .45 ACP load manuals will be correct. They may not be off by much, but the hassle and uncertainty isn't worth it.

January 17, 2011, 03:16 AM	#8
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	I called Starline about the 45acp +P brass and talked to the man. He says +P brass is for hot loads in pistols with poor case support. He says the 45 Super brass is for even hotter loads for pistols with good case support. He says it has some better heat treat. He says that the 460 Rowland brass is the same as the 45 Super brass, but longer. My experiments show that all brands of 45acp brass [including Starline 45 Super] fails at the same point in a work up, except Starline +P, which has thicker walls, and thus less case capacity. Joe D'Alessandro at realguns has different conclusions than me, and he usually knows what he is talking about. So either we got different batches to cross section or one of us made a mistake. I built this 45acp 11 years ago on a 1903 Turk Mauser, and it has served me will for high performance testing and shooting groups at 100 yards.

January 18, 2011, 11:59 AM	#10
overkill0084 Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2010 Location: Northern, UT Posts: 1,162	^^^ what he said. If you were shooting hot loads out of a pistol that that doesn't support the brass, then maybe. Spend the extra money on something else. __________________ Cheers, Greg “At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child – miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats.” — P.J. O’Rourke

January 18, 2011, 04:22 PM	#11
Poodleshooter Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2000 Location: Floating down the James River in VA Posts: 2,599	This is why they make thicker web .45 brass: (This is about 100+ rounds of an under maximum load of either Clays,Titegroup or Bullseye under a 230gr LRN in a Glock 30 that I no longer own).

January 18, 2011, 06:06 PM	#12
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	I'm currently running Clays at .3 over max recommended load, and have never seen any evidence of bulging in any of my guns or with any of my mixed commercial and G.I. brass. There's something very wrong with the gun that fired the rounds that produced the pictured cases.

January 18, 2011, 09:48 PM	#13
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	I would like to add that I am very impressed with Starline brass of all calibers. This stuff will take a lot of abuse. You have made a great choice. I consider Starline a superior product.

January 19, 2011, 05:08 AM	#14
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	While the Starline does sound good. I use range brass. I have a 5 gal. bucket full of sized, and belled cases to reload .45 ACP with. If I had to buy brass I would probably buy the cheapest stuff I could find. I loose it long before it splits. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.