Multiple intruders- worst scenario.

enikkor · June 18, 2007, 07:54 PM

A guy from our town visiting Arizona, got shot while visiting relatives.
Apparently there were at least 2 or 3 BG's who descended from a glass
roof window & surprised the couple and their folks. The guy hide his
wife in a closet, after trying to get out of the window, there was
a car with more ?BG's outside. Not knowing that they were armed,
he confronted one of them and was shot! He died on the spot.
I & a fellow gun enthusiasts talked about it. Both of us came to the
conclusion that it is the worsed possible nightmare scenario and unless
I have a high capacity pistol with ready 2 or 3 clips, the situation is
bad. What is the chance of me having that when visiting relatives?
I thought of barricading the door and shoot whoever comes in, but then
,they may kill the other people in the house. I have been intrigued by this.
I welcome your advice, opinion, and tactical experties.
Thank you.

fisherman66 · June 18, 2007, 08:05 PM

Quote:

2 or 3 BG's who descended from a glass
roof window

Can you cite a newpaper column or sumtin else to verify? I gotta see this one in print.

sigfreak · June 18, 2007, 08:43 PM

i'm no expert by any means,but if the BG's plan an attack were repelling gear,stealth planning,and mulitiable backs ups outside are used,i find it hard to believe it was just a basic home invasion or robbery.they was after something special.if you are unlucky enough to ever find yourself in the middle of something like,your probably screwed.as great as it would be,we can't all walk around with M-4's around our necks and four thousand rounds of ammo just to spend a weekend with the inlaws.we can just try to be ready for the basics.remember,the BG's already got the advantage because they know when,where,and how the attack will take place.

Doug.38PR · June 18, 2007, 09:46 PM

Quote:

unless
I have a high capacity pistol with ready 2 or 3 clips, the situation is
bad.

how is a high capacity pistol going to save you any more or less than a revolver? I mean it is 2 or 3 guys. 2 or 3 shots from either will determine the outcome one way or another. Remember the man was shot right on the spot right when he confronted them.

If it is a real advantage you want then the choice should not be between a semi automatic or a revolver pistol but a handgun of any kind and a shotgun/rifle.

FS2K · June 19, 2007, 02:12 AM

That the dude was a drug dealer eh? Decending from the glass roof? Who were they, Ninja's?!?

Sounds more like an all out assault than a break-in. Eaither that, or someones been watching "Tomb Raider" too much.

Mr Beta · June 19, 2007, 02:22 AM

Sounds like they could've been some kinda uber mall ninjas. With their tacticool AR-15s with their collapsible stocks.

Back to the topic, I'd try to get everyone into a room and barricade it.
At least you'll have some chance at defending yourself if they bust in the door. At that point, you'd shoot them or hit them with a lamp or something..?

FS2K · June 19, 2007, 02:52 AM

Well, the truth of the matter is, no one can predict such things. There is no guarantee that your home will be broken into, and I'd imagine the odds are ever higher against your home being raided by multiple highly trained individuals. I suppose any one of us could prepare for the very worst case scenerio, but for the majority of us probably don't have to due to our occupations and areas that we live in.

Sounds to me like these people were there for a specific reason, a reason that has nothing to do with you and definately something to do with either your relative OR your relatives house. There are too many variables to make a discission on what to do. For instance:

Who's to say these people weren't the Police?

Was anything taken from the house?

What happened to the guys wife? She is THE key eye witness to the entire event.

To me, a high capacity pistol wouldn't have done much good. If one of these people were armed, chances are they weren't the only one in the group....AND think of the trouble you'd be in if you shot one of these people and they were the Police?

Then again, just because someone yells out "Police!" doesn't make them real cops.

In my opinion, the best bet would be to hit the floor in a non threatening posture. they aren't there for you. The man could have been accidentally shot simply for confronting a nervous rookie.

newerguy · June 19, 2007, 07:17 AM

Quote:

2 or 3 BG's who descended from a glass
roof window

If they tried that in my house. they'd just fall into the shark tank.

Seriously, I have never heard of a home invasion robbery, or even an organized crime/gang hit so intricately planned as to involve two guys decending into a room from a skylight, and multiple back ups.

Here's the deal, if somebody wants you that badly, they'll kill you unless you run (disappear) or pay for a lot of security (and change your life accordingly). High capacity pistols won't save you, and if they know you are always armed, they'll kill you in your sleep, or in your car, or whatever. Don't worry about it.

mikejonestkd · June 19, 2007, 08:47 AM

if they really want you they will just pick you off from a safe distance with a ' high powered sniper rifle ' like a rem 700 or a win 70.... LOL

Preparing for such a confrontation is a bit over the top - a bit like a SHTF senario. I am surprised that none of the assailants were ZOMBIES!!!!

newarcher · June 19, 2007, 01:57 PM

Well, that's it. Now we aren't even safe leaving our skylights uncovered by supression fire.

I just can't take the paranoia....I am going to have both arms converted into some sort of high capacity AR15 type weapons, who needs hands anyway? I am also gonna have Mr. Johnson converted to a 50 cal BMG for long range sniper fire! I'd get two 50 cal's but the barrels are very heavy and my arms aren't strong enough!

I smell a rat on this one!

New

Tim Burke · June 19, 2007, 02:53 PM

Sometimes you are just toast; you can't plan for everything.
However, if my home gets invaded through the skylight, and I manage to escape outside unnoticed, I'm not confronting the covering element either verbally or unarmed.

Zor Omega · June 20, 2007, 02:09 AM

Yes I would have to agree with Newarcher, this one sound fake. But in the event that someone really did do this. Unless you have your own personal security force, and have made the hand to ar-15 conversion there is really nothing you could do.

New that was funny I could'nt stop laughing.

oldbillthundercheif · June 20, 2007, 02:33 AM

I wonder what he did to get the Spetsnaz all worked up?

He wasn't Chechen was he?

El Barto · June 20, 2007, 01:27 PM

I don't read it as being a hi-tech, mission impossible operation:

A couple of guys know of a nice house that may be good to break into. They park out front and watch to see when the homeowner leaves. 1 guy stay in the car as lookout/getaway driver and the others try to get in. All ground floor windows and doors are locked so they look up and see an open window (could be a sky light or something under the eaves).

The bad guys climb on the roof and through the window and start to burgle. They did not know that the homeowner has guests. The guests startle the bad guys and chase them out, where the guy in the car opens fire.

Ian2005 · June 20, 2007, 02:04 PM

Maybe my reading comprehension is not so good. Super-duper repelling robbers come down from skylight, guy hides wife. Guy slips out window (leaving wife to hide while intruders plunder his home). See's more bad guys out front, and gets in fight with them ending up dead. All this - as opposed to ahh.. going to neighbor & calling police, or sneaking with of window -wife first & going to the neighbors to call police, or just plain beat your feat till your in a new zipcode. This story smells funny.

enikkor · June 20, 2007, 07:25 PM

Why don't some of you guys read it again, then react according to how you
think the situation is, rather than dismissing it as not true.
Point of fact, this was a true story. A prominent Guy from our town in
the midwest visited his relatives(folks) in Phoenix, Arizona, and more or less
that's what happened. It is all over the papers here a few months ago.

My account was actually lifted from a newpaper article. You may question
some details of what happened but the truth is that this was a
multi-intruder home robbery. If you think that all intrusion is done by a single
idiotic, low IQ , unarmed BG, think again!

The reason, I brought this story up, was that I was really intrigued by this
sad story, and I am in the process of learning SD shooting. I was not trying
to dramatize this sad situation. The victim was a former star player in the
school here, and the funeral service was done in the college gym.

oldbillthundercheif · June 20, 2007, 07:54 PM

How about a link to a story or just the guy's name? I just searched for home-invasion death stories from Arizona and came up with a pile of stories... none of them involving ninjas.

I think the reason everyone is questioning this is you have not provided any specific info about the event and you wrote that the burglars "descended from a glass roof window". That wording implies that they rappelled down using a well-designed rope setup, not that they just kicked in a window and jumped into the house.

References, please.

Tamara · June 21, 2007, 05:25 AM

...is to avoid visiting people who are likely to have armed men come rappelling through their skylights.

easyG · June 21, 2007, 06:30 AM

What the heck, I'll play along....

He probably should have heard the car pull up outside, but maybe he lives on a busy road.

He probably should have heard the idiots climbing on the roof, but maybe he had the music turned up.

He probably should have heard the glass breaking, but maybe he was in another part of his, apparantly, very large house.

Anyway, the answer could be:
1) Get a dog that barks when cars pull into the driveway.
2) Get a surveilance camera that watches the surrounding yard.
3) Get an alarm system that detects any window or skylight being opened or broken.
4) Get a Glock 17.

Or skip steps 1 through 4 and just hire Higgins and Magnum PI.

ilikesa · June 21, 2007, 07:18 AM

"Unless you have a high capacity pistol, the situation is bad." The situation is bad if you had a belt fed machine gun! The others are right, if you get caught up in that situation, you're pretty much screwed. May as well shoot to take as many with you as you can.

easyG · June 21, 2007, 10:09 AM

Or maybe you could have a few pipe-bombs handy?

john in jax · June 21, 2007, 10:44 AM

enikkor we would all like more DETAILED information, please provide us, at the very least, some HARD information so we can start Googling. Your version of the story just simply does not have enough details/information for us to go on.

markj · June 21, 2007, 02:20 PM

My sky lights are made from unbreakable glass, the shark tank below has sharks with (In a Dr. Evil voice)

laser beams on their heads

bwa hahahaha bwa hahaha where is mini me at? I miss the smell of waffles and brussels sprouts in the morning......

biere · June 22, 2007, 11:32 AM

Spiffy alarm system for the house that can moniter the perimeter while you are inside the house.

Dogs. Trained dogs.

Wear your ccw when visiting relatives and take some serious classes with that specific handgun so you can learn exactly how things work with that gun.

I take guns when visiting relatives. I have a ccw that is recognized in the states where my relatives live so the gun goes with me.

I sure the heck don't expect to survive going up against 3 armed intruders but I will do my best to give it my best shots.

Ct. · June 22, 2007, 10:14 PM

Quote:

but for the majority of us probably don't have to due to our occupations and areas that we live in.

Don't use that to determine how much protection you should have. You're on a gun forum are you not? That means you have something that bad guys want.

Anyone who has more than a few hunting firearms should fully realise that they could be the perfect target for bad guys of todays generation. One thing you "old guys" don't realise so much is that there are a lot of guys who don't care how much of an easy target you are, If you have what they want they will target you. Gang members are joing the army so the can get CQB and urban operation training. Don't fool yourself into thinking that they wont target you. Most of them will probably start with a cheap rifle like an sks or something but they will use that sks to get your guns.

June 18, 2007, 07:54 PM	#1
enikkor Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2006 Posts: 193	Multiple intruders- worst scenario. A guy from our town visiting Arizona, got shot while visiting relatives. Apparently there were at least 2 or 3 BG's who descended from a glass roof window & surprised the couple and their folks. The guy hide his wife in a closet, after trying to get out of the window, there was a car with more ?BG's outside. Not knowing that they were armed, he confronted one of them and was shot! He died on the spot. I & a fellow gun enthusiasts talked about it. Both of us came to the conclusion that it is the worsed possible nightmare scenario and unless I have a high capacity pistol with ready 2 or 3 clips, the situation is bad. What is the chance of me having that when visiting relatives? I thought of barricading the door and shoot whoever comes in, but then ,they may kill the other people in the house. I have been intrigued by this. I welcome your advice, opinion, and tactical experties. Thank you.

June 19, 2007, 02:12 AM	#5
FS2K Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2006 Posts: 1,853	Guess they forgot to mention... That the dude was a drug dealer eh? Decending from the glass roof? Who were they, Ninja's?!? Sounds more like an all out assault than a break-in. Eaither that, or someones been watching "Tomb Raider" too much. __________________ Just a big fan of guns.

June 19, 2007, 02:22 AM	#6
Mr Beta Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2007 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 232	Sounds like they could've been some kinda uber mall ninjas. With their tacticool AR-15s with their collapsible stocks. Back to the topic, I'd try to get everyone into a room and barricade it. At least you'll have some chance at defending yourself if they bust in the door. At that point, you'd shoot them or hit them with a lamp or something..? __________________ The two loudest sounds in the world are a click when you expect a bang, and a bang when you expect a click.

June 19, 2007, 02:52 AM	#7
FS2K Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2006 Posts: 1,853	Sorry, I couldn't resist the snooty remark... Well, the truth of the matter is, no one can predict such things. There is no guarantee that your home will be broken into, and I'd imagine the odds are ever higher against your home being raided by multiple highly trained individuals. I suppose any one of us could prepare for the very worst case scenerio, but for the majority of us probably don't have to due to our occupations and areas that we live in. Sounds to me like these people were there for a specific reason, a reason that has nothing to do with you and definately something to do with either your relative OR your relatives house. There are too many variables to make a discission on what to do. For instance: Who's to say these people weren't the Police? Was anything taken from the house? What happened to the guys wife? She is THE key eye witness to the entire event. To me, a high capacity pistol wouldn't have done much good. If one of these people were armed, chances are they weren't the only one in the group....AND think of the trouble you'd be in if you shot one of these people and they were the Police? Then again, just because someone yells out "Police!" doesn't make them real cops. In my opinion, the best bet would be to hit the floor in a non threatening posture. they aren't there for you. The man could have been accidentally shot simply for confronting a nervous rookie. __________________ Just a big fan of guns.

June 19, 2007, 08:47 AM	#9
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,717	if they really want you they will just pick you off from a safe distance with a ' high powered sniper rifle ' like a rem 700 or a win 70.... LOL Preparing for such a confrontation is a bit over the top - a bit like a SHTF senario. I am surprised that none of the assailants were ZOMBIES!!!! __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

June 18, 2007, 08:43 PM	#3
sigfreak Member Join Date: June 15, 2007 Posts: 53	i'm no expert by any means,but if the BG's plan an attack were repelling gear,stealth planning,and mulitiable backs ups outside are used,i find it hard to believe it was just a basic home invasion or robbery.they was after something special.if you are unlucky enough to ever find yourself in the middle of something like,your probably screwed.as great as it would be,we can't all walk around with M-4's around our necks and four thousand rounds of ammo just to spend a weekend with the inlaws.we can just try to be ready for the basics.remember,the BG's already got the advantage because they know when,where,and how the attack will take place.

June 19, 2007, 01:57 PM	#10
newarcher Junior member Join Date: May 19, 2007 Posts: 108	Well, that's it. Now we aren't even safe leaving our skylights uncovered by supression fire. I just can't take the paranoia....I am going to have both arms converted into some sort of high capacity AR15 type weapons, who needs hands anyway? I am also gonna have Mr. Johnson converted to a 50 cal BMG for long range sniper fire! I'd get two 50 cal's but the barrels are very heavy and my arms aren't strong enough! I smell a rat on this one! New

June 19, 2007, 02:53 PM	#11
Tim Burke Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 1999 Posts: 551	Sometimes you are just toast; you can't plan for everything. However, if my home gets invaded through the skylight, and I manage to escape outside unnoticed, I'm not confronting the covering element either verbally or unarmed. __________________ TB., NC

June 20, 2007, 02:09 AM	#12
Zor Omega Junior Member Join Date: May 29, 2007 Posts: 9	Yes I would have to agree with Newarcher, this one sound fake. But in the event that someone really did do this. Unless you have your own personal security force, and have made the hand to ar-15 conversion there is really nothing you could do. New that was funny I could'nt stop laughing.

June 20, 2007, 02:33 AM	#13
oldbillthundercheif Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2006 Location: New Orleans Posts: 2,450	I wonder what he did to get the Spetsnaz all worked up? He wasn't Chechen was he?

June 20, 2007, 01:27 PM	#14
El Barto Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: Maywood, CA Posts: 64	I don't read it as being a hi-tech, mission impossible operation: A couple of guys know of a nice house that may be good to break into. They park out front and watch to see when the homeowner leaves. 1 guy stay in the car as lookout/getaway driver and the others try to get in. All ground floor windows and doors are locked so they look up and see an open window (could be a sky light or something under the eaves). The bad guys climb on the roof and through the window and start to burgle. They did not know that the homeowner has guests. The guests startle the bad guys and chase them out, where the guy in the car opens fire.

June 20, 2007, 02:04 PM	#15
Ian2005 Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 355	Maybe my reading comprehension is not so good. Super-duper repelling robbers come down from skylight, guy hides wife. Guy slips out window (leaving wife to hide while intruders plunder his home). See's more bad guys out front, and gets in fight with them ending up dead. All this - as opposed to ahh.. going to neighbor & calling police, or sneaking with of window -wife first & going to the neighbors to call police, or just plain beat your feat till your in a new zipcode. This story smells funny.

June 20, 2007, 07:25 PM	#16
enikkor Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2006 Posts: 193	Before you call this story funny! Why don't some of you guys read it again, then react according to how you think the situation is, rather than dismissing it as not true. Point of fact, this was a true story. A prominent Guy from our town in the midwest visited his relatives(folks) in Phoenix, Arizona, and more or less that's what happened. It is all over the papers here a few months ago. My account was actually lifted from a newpaper article. You may question some details of what happened but the truth is that this was a multi-intruder home robbery. If you think that all intrusion is done by a single idiotic, low IQ , unarmed BG, think again! The reason, I brought this story up, was that I was really intrigued by this sad story, and I am in the process of learning SD shooting. I was not trying to dramatize this sad situation. The victim was a former star player in the school here, and the funeral service was done in the college gym.

June 20, 2007, 07:54 PM	#17
oldbillthundercheif Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2006 Location: New Orleans Posts: 2,450	How about a link to a story or just the guy's name? I just searched for home-invasion death stories from Arizona and came up with a pile of stories... none of them involving ninjas. I think the reason everyone is questioning this is you have not provided any specific info about the event and you wrote that the burglars "descended from a glass roof window". That wording implies that they rappelled down using a well-designed rope setup, not that they just kicked in a window and jumped into the house. References, please.

June 21, 2007, 05:25 AM	#18
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	The best way to survive this scenario... ...is to avoid visiting people who are likely to have armed men come rappelling through their skylights. __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

June 21, 2007, 06:30 AM	#19
easyG Junior member Join Date: August 30, 2004 Location: Right here! Posts: 972	What the heck, I'll play along.... He probably should have heard the car pull up outside, but maybe he lives on a busy road. He probably should have heard the idiots climbing on the roof, but maybe he had the music turned up. He probably should have heard the glass breaking, but maybe he was in another part of his, apparantly, very large house. Anyway, the answer could be: 1) Get a dog that barks when cars pull into the driveway. 2) Get a surveilance camera that watches the surrounding yard. 3) Get an alarm system that detects any window or skylight being opened or broken. 4) Get a Glock 17. Or skip steps 1 through 4 and just hire Higgins and Magnum PI.

June 21, 2007, 07:18 AM	#20
ilikesa Member Join Date: April 5, 2007 Posts: 24	"Unless you have a high capacity pistol, the situation is bad." The situation is bad if you had a belt fed machine gun! The others are right, if you get caught up in that situation, you're pretty much screwed. May as well shoot to take as many with you as you can.

June 21, 2007, 10:09 AM	#21
easyG Junior member Join Date: August 30, 2004 Location: Right here! Posts: 972	Or maybe you could have a few pipe-bombs handy?

June 21, 2007, 10:44 AM	#22
john in jax Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2005 Posts: 1,177	enikkor we would all like more DETAILED information, please provide us, at the very least, some HARD information so we can start Googling. Your version of the story just simply does not have enough details/information for us to go on. __________________ America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. Claire Wolfe

June 21, 2007, 02:20 PM	#23
markj Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2005 Location: Crescent Iowa Posts: 2,971	My sky lights are made from unbreakable glass, the shark tank below has sharks with (In a Dr. Evil voice) laser beams on their heads bwa hahahaha bwa hahaha where is mini me at? I miss the smell of waffles and brussels sprouts in the morning......

June 22, 2007, 11:32 AM	#24
biere Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: tn Posts: 504	Spiffy alarm system for the house that can moniter the perimeter while you are inside the house. Dogs. Trained dogs. Wear your ccw when visiting relatives and take some serious classes with that specific handgun so you can learn exactly how things work with that gun. I take guns when visiting relatives. I have a ccw that is recognized in the states where my relatives live so the gun goes with me. I sure the heck don't expect to survive going up against 3 armed intruders but I will do my best to give it my best shots.