GPS Systems ?????

rr41mag · November 24, 2001, 11:11 PM

OK which one is good? Which one do I need to stay away from?

**Bud Helms** · November 24, 2001, 11:38 PM

Garmin

Moved to Gear and Accessories

Oakleaf · November 25, 2001, 05:28 AM

I have a Garmin G 12.

Purchased it because it was a reconditioned unit from an authorised supplier - about half the cost of new.

Used for about 12 months. Took a while to get around the screens and functions etc, but a useful tool.

Seems to work OK under tree cover etc.

A friend has the Magellan 310 - equally happy with it.

Of the two, the Garmin seems a little more robust - but not much in it.

Both are fairly basic models.

Fred Hansen · November 25, 2001, 05:34 AM

I have a Garmin Summit. I love it.

3 gun · November 25, 2001, 06:32 AM

I use a GARMIN eTrek, the base model in bright yellow. Simple to use, small, good battery life and inexpensive. Mine was under $100 at Dick's on sale. I've found it useful in the car, biking, shooting and Geocaching .

Money well spent, no regrets.

RAThomas · November 25, 2001, 06:09 PM

I use a Magellan for flying and use on the ground. Be careful about buying a Magellan. I just found out that they have gotten out of the aviation field and now do not support it at all, including updates to the data base. If they will do that to one segment of their product line the will they sometime do the same for the rest? Stick with the Garmin.

Edward429451 · November 27, 2001, 09:51 PM

I'm stickin to compasses and maps cause they dont require batteries, and they cant track your compass....some may call it paranoia

Jeff White · November 28, 2001, 12:24 AM

Edward,

It's good to stick with maps and compasses, becuase GPS is an electronic device that can fail. It should never be your primary means of navigation.

But how would one track a GPS? It's only a receiver. I doubt if it emits enough energy on it's own to be detectable from very far away.

Jeff

Foxy · November 28, 2001, 01:34 AM

I don't know about GPS's, but radar detectors (the type that go in your car) can be detected. I read an article on it; apparently, all radio recievers give off a frequency of their own when they pick up a radio signal. This signal is what radar-detector-detectors pick up. In turn, these radar-detector-detectors give off their own signal, so some radar-detectors also have a radar-detector-detector-detector that shut down the unit.
I think the radar-detector-detector has a range of about 2 miles.

Of course, this is all from memory, and I don't even know if it applies to GPS systems

STLRN · November 28, 2001, 04:48 AM

Edward
I hope you don't drive a car because the gunships have a device in them that can pick up the cars electronics.

Let face it just about anything that uses electronics creates a certain electronic field that with the right equipment can be detected.

sgoeing · November 28, 2001, 04:05 PM

I agree that a compass and map should be primary navigation tools or at least a skill one has for emergencies, but gps's are rather amazing. I used to have a Garmin III plus and it was outstanding. Very user friendly and reliable. I now have a Garmen Vista on my christmas list. Those things do everything and have a ton of memory for storing more detailed maps. Hope santa come through!!!!!!!
Michael Goeing

Jeff White · November 28, 2001, 04:29 PM

STLRN,

Back at Joint Firepower Control Course in '83, I saw a film taken from the sensors of an AC-130 gunship over the Ho Chi Ming Trail. It was a line of flickering lights that suddenly blossomed into explosions. The flickering lights were the ignition systems of the trucks in a convoy moving down the trail. The blossoms of exposions were just that, 105mm rounds from the AC-130 hitting the trucks. That was 1970 technology. I'm sure we can track about any electronic emission now.

I think Edward may have thought that the GPS somehow returned a signal to the satellite.

I guess if a person wants to be completely invisible, he needs to not emit any electronic signature (no radios, GPSs, electric razors, flashlights, etc.) and figure a way to keep his body temperature the same as his surroundings.

Jeff

Wunderwaffe · November 28, 2001, 06:28 PM

Can't go wrong with a Trimble GPS. I use a Trimpack III, the thing is built like a tank.

Edward429451 · November 28, 2001, 10:11 PM

I think having a GPS unit would be cool to have and play around with just to be familier with them but it dont have a place in my Bug out bag cause I cant take the chance.

"With the right equipment..." "Only a receiver..." "I (You) Doubt..."

All I'm saying is lets not underestimate thier technology. Didnt you see 'Enemy of the State'? You think thats just a movie? I think thats just scratching the surface. I dont think it farfetched at all to think that they could track your GPS while you have it on at least and maybe even if off with the chip technology. Like the so called InfoPet chips where they insert the chip under the pets skin. Its a passive device with a micro-capacitor in it which receives a signal from the scanner, charges the capacitor and autodumps its ID info which is read by the scanning devices computer,positively identifing your pet. The chip then returns to a passive state. Sorta like scanning your groceries at the store. It dont need the red light and beep either, thats just to let you know its working there at the scanning computer or cash register. If they can read a wristwatch from a satillite then its probably not farfetched to think they could scan you from a satillite. The more technology you use, the easier it will be for them to find you. What is the good old fashioned way?

Yea, I realize I may be walking if worst comes to worst, grim but must be prepared for that eventuality. Alternate planning...A B C...(A&B both have vehicles in the plan!) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. The convenience of pushbutton technology comes with a price, make no mistake about it.

KeithL · December 25, 2001, 09:52 AM

Merry Christmas! I'll add my vote to the Garmin line. I've owned a GPS12 for a couple years now. Works great. I'd recommend checking out their "Etrex" line now--very small and light and only uses 2 AA batteries. They are as low as $120. If you want all the bells & whistles w/ maps & so forth, prices will go past $300. I use mine for backpacking & elk hunting and do not need the maps. I also agree that one should keep their topo map & compass, but my GPS is invaluable. I've selected a "go to" and gone cross-country at night & walked right up to where my buddy had parked his truck waiting for me. I would have found him w/o the GPS, but it sure saves a lot of walking!

Sierra · December 26, 2001, 05:00 PM

KeithL. Keep the Garmin 12. The new stuff is not as rugged. The Garmin 12 is used by the military and non of the new ones are rugged enough. As you know, yours is for land navigation and those new ones are electronic maps. Trendy but fragile. Great if you are looking for a Starbucks but not if you are off the road.

AK103K · December 27, 2001, 02:40 PM

I've got a Garmin GPS40 and a GPSIII+. The III+ locks on a lot better, but both have trouble under a heavy canopy or high rocks etc. so dont leave your compass at home. You should always have a map with the gps anyway, that way you can see where you really are. USGS maps are best for this (or military maps if you can get them) as you can plot and get coorinates from them. If you have trouble getting a signal you can always inverse with the gps to get the magnetic bearing for your compass and a distance from your last fix to the next point so you can keep going till you get another.

If you want to get coordinates online for where you want to go, check out www.topozone.com

You can get coordinates in UTM, or LAT/LONG. The maps are USGS quads that let you put the cursor on the point you want the coord. (it shows at the lower left of your computer screen.) You can get the maps down to 1:25000(not 1:24000 for some reason) It defaults to UTM so if you want LAT/LONG you need to switch it at the bottom of the page.

Jeff White · December 27, 2001, 05:52 PM

Sierra,

What branch of the military uses the Garmin 12? All I've ever seen are the PLGRs (made by Rockwell) and some old commercial Magellans that the aviation unit bought locally years ago. Does the military model take the encryption key so you can get the non spoofed signals?

Jeff

Sierra · December 28, 2001, 01:37 AM

On a previous thread there was an Air Force para-rescue who discussed the Garmin and also a Marine who said they used them in land-nav problems in addition to the map and compass. I don't remember any mention of encryption but they must have some way of sliding through it.

November 24, 2001, 11:11 PM	#1
rr41mag Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2000 Location: Biloxi, Miss. Posts: 180	GPS Systems ????? OK which one is good? Which one do I need to stay away from? __________________ A son is the best friend you'll ever have!

November 24, 2001, 11:38 PM	#2
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	Garmin Moved to Gear and Accessories Last edited by Bud Helms; November 25, 2001 at 04:53 AM.

November 25, 2001, 05:34 AM	#4
Fred Hansen Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2001 Location: The middle of WWIII Posts: 3,335	I have a Garmin Summit. I love it. __________________ "This started out as a documentary on gun violence in America, but the largest mass murder in our history was just committed -- without the use of a single gun! Not a single bullet fired! No bomb was set off, no missile was fired, no weapon (i.e., a device that was solely and specifically manufactured to kill humans) was used. A boxcutter! -- I can't stop thinking about this. A thousand gun control laws would not have prevented this massacre. What am I doing?" Michael Moore

November 25, 2001, 06:32 AM	#5
3 gun Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: N41 24.283 W81 43.370 N.E.Ohio Posts: 561	eTrex I use a GARMIN eTrek, the base model in bright yellow. Simple to use, small, good battery life and inexpensive. Mine was under $100 at Dick's on sale. I've found it useful in the car, biking, shooting and Geocaching . Money well spent, no regrets. __________________ Change you can believe in... Pre-65 US silver coins NRA RSO & Certified Instructor in rifle, pistol, shotgun. An unloaded pistol is a paperweight. Opportunity knocks..Trouble kicks down the door.

November 28, 2001, 04:48 AM	#10
STLRN Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 1999 Location: USA Posts: 1,163	Edward I hope you don't drive a car because the gunships have a device in them that can pick up the cars electronics. Let face it just about anything that uses electronics creates a certain electronic field that with the right equipment can be detected. __________________ God truly fights on the side with the best artillery

November 25, 2001, 05:28 AM	#3
Oakleaf Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2001 Location: Central Scotland and the Highlands Posts: 164	I have a Garmin G 12. Purchased it because it was a reconditioned unit from an authorised supplier - about half the cost of new. Used for about 12 months. Took a while to get around the screens and functions etc, but a useful tool. Seems to work OK under tree cover etc. A friend has the Magellan 310 - equally happy with it. Of the two, the Garmin seems a little more robust - but not much in it. Both are fairly basic models.

November 25, 2001, 06:09 PM	#6
RAThomas Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1999 Location: Olathe, KS USA Posts: 129	I use a Magellan for flying and use on the ground. Be careful about buying a Magellan. I just found out that they have gotten out of the aviation field and now do not support it at all, including updates to the data base. If they will do that to one segment of their product line the will they sometime do the same for the rest? Stick with the Garmin.

November 27, 2001, 09:51 PM	#7
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	I'm stickin to compasses and maps cause they dont require batteries, and they cant track your compass....some may call it paranoia

November 28, 2001, 12:24 AM	#8
Jeff White Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1998 Location: Kinmundy, IL, USA Posts: 1,397	Edward, It's good to stick with maps and compasses, becuase GPS is an electronic device that can fail. It should never be your primary means of navigation. But how would one track a GPS? It's only a receiver. I doubt if it emits enough energy on it's own to be detectable from very far away. Jeff

November 28, 2001, 01:34 AM	#9
Foxy Senior Member Join Date: September 14, 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 846	I don't know about GPS's, but radar detectors (the type that go in your car) can be detected. I read an article on it; apparently, all radio recievers give off a frequency of their own when they pick up a radio signal. This signal is what radar-detector-detectors pick up. In turn, these radar-detector-detectors give off their own signal, so some radar-detectors also have a radar-detector-detector-detector that shut down the unit. I think the radar-detector-detector has a range of about 2 miles. Of course, this is all from memory, and I don't even know if it applies to GPS systems

November 28, 2001, 04:05 PM	#11
sgoeing Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2000 Posts: 136	I agree that a compass and map should be primary navigation tools or at least a skill one has for emergencies, but gps's are rather amazing. I used to have a Garmin III plus and it was outstanding. Very user friendly and reliable. I now have a Garmen Vista on my christmas list. Those things do everything and have a ton of memory for storing more detailed maps. Hope santa come through!!!!!!! Michael Goeing

November 28, 2001, 04:29 PM	#12
Jeff White Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1998 Location: Kinmundy, IL, USA Posts: 1,397	STLRN, Back at Joint Firepower Control Course in '83, I saw a film taken from the sensors of an AC-130 gunship over the Ho Chi Ming Trail. It was a line of flickering lights that suddenly blossomed into explosions. The flickering lights were the ignition systems of the trucks in a convoy moving down the trail. The blossoms of exposions were just that, 105mm rounds from the AC-130 hitting the trucks. That was 1970 technology. I'm sure we can track about any electronic emission now. I think Edward may have thought that the GPS somehow returned a signal to the satellite. I guess if a person wants to be completely invisible, he needs to not emit any electronic signature (no radios, GPSs, electric razors, flashlights, etc.) and figure a way to keep his body temperature the same as his surroundings. Jeff

November 28, 2001, 06:28 PM	#13
Wunderwaffe Member Join Date: November 23, 2000 Posts: 51	Can't go wrong with a Trimble GPS. I use a Trimpack III, the thing is built like a tank.

November 28, 2001, 10:11 PM	#14
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	I think having a GPS unit would be cool to have and play around with just to be familier with them but it dont have a place in my Bug out bag cause I cant take the chance. "With the right equipment..." "Only a receiver..." "I (You) Doubt..." All I'm saying is lets not underestimate thier technology. Didnt you see 'Enemy of the State'? You think thats just a movie? I think thats just scratching the surface. I dont think it farfetched at all to think that they could track your GPS while you have it on at least and maybe even if off with the chip technology. Like the so called InfoPet chips where they insert the chip under the pets skin. Its a passive device with a micro-capacitor in it which receives a signal from the scanner, charges the capacitor and autodumps its ID info which is read by the scanning devices computer,positively identifing your pet. The chip then returns to a passive state. Sorta like scanning your groceries at the store. It dont need the red light and beep either, thats just to let you know its working there at the scanning computer or cash register. If they can read a wristwatch from a satillite then its probably not farfetched to think they could scan you from a satillite. The more technology you use, the easier it will be for them to find you. What is the good old fashioned way? Yea, I realize I may be walking if worst comes to worst, grim but must be prepared for that eventuality. Alternate planning...A B C...(A&B both have vehicles in the plan!) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. The convenience of pushbutton technology comes with a price, make no mistake about it.

December 25, 2001, 09:52 AM	#15
KeithL Member Join Date: October 21, 2000 Posts: 24	Merry Christmas! I'll add my vote to the Garmin line. I've owned a GPS12 for a couple years now. Works great. I'd recommend checking out their "Etrex" line now--very small and light and only uses 2 AA batteries. They are as low as $120. If you want all the bells & whistles w/ maps & so forth, prices will go past $300. I use mine for backpacking & elk hunting and do not need the maps. I also agree that one should keep their topo map & compass, but my GPS is invaluable. I've selected a "go to" and gone cross-country at night & walked right up to where my buddy had parked his truck waiting for me. I would have found him w/o the GPS, but it sure saves a lot of walking!

December 26, 2001, 05:00 PM	#16
Sierra Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 1998 Location: Portland,OR,USA Posts: 335	KeithL. Keep the Garmin 12. The new stuff is not as rugged. The Garmin 12 is used by the military and non of the new ones are rugged enough. As you know, yours is for land navigation and those new ones are electronic maps. Trendy but fragile. Great if you are looking for a Starbucks but not if you are off the road.

December 27, 2001, 02:40 PM	#17
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	I've got a Garmin GPS40 and a GPSIII+. The III+ locks on a lot better, but both have trouble under a heavy canopy or high rocks etc. so dont leave your compass at home. You should always have a map with the gps anyway, that way you can see where you really are. USGS maps are best for this (or military maps if you can get them) as you can plot and get coorinates from them. If you have trouble getting a signal you can always inverse with the gps to get the magnetic bearing for your compass and a distance from your last fix to the next point so you can keep going till you get another. If you want to get coordinates online for where you want to go, check out www.topozone.com You can get coordinates in UTM, or LAT/LONG. The maps are USGS quads that let you put the cursor on the point you want the coord. (it shows at the lower left of your computer screen.) You can get the maps down to 1:25000(not 1:24000 for some reason) It defaults to UTM so if you want LAT/LONG you need to switch it at the bottom of the page.

December 27, 2001, 05:52 PM	#18
Jeff White Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1998 Location: Kinmundy, IL, USA Posts: 1,397	Sierra, What branch of the military uses the Garmin 12? All I've ever seen are the PLGRs (made by Rockwell) and some old commercial Magellans that the aviation unit bought locally years ago. Does the military model take the encryption key so you can get the non spoofed signals? Jeff

December 28, 2001, 01:37 AM	#19
Sierra Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 1998 Location: Portland,OR,USA Posts: 335	On a previous thread there was an Air Force para-rescue who discussed the Garmin and also a Marine who said they used them in land-nav problems in addition to the map and compass. I don't remember any mention of encryption but they must have some way of sliding through it.