Powder gumming up my 223?

the machinist · December 14, 2008, 10:29 PM

I'm loading 23.3 grains of h380 with a 55grain jsp. The load is working fine in my DPMS but about every 2-5 shots the chamber gets fouled with black crap and the gun jams the round will not go all the way into the chamber, with alot of straining I can eventually get the live round out, run a brush through the chamber and the round will drop right in.. Is this powder really dirty? or is it possible I need more than the 23.3g's I remember when I switched from green dot to universal clays years ago i couldnt believe my eyes..thanks!!

Tim R · December 14, 2008, 10:32 PM

Switch to Varget and see what happens.

armedtotheteeth · December 14, 2008, 10:38 PM

I hope you are not in need of a small based die. Are you full length sizing?? There is alway gonna be crud in a AR. That is the nature of the beast. I have no exp with H380, But I have an Ar15 and an Ar10 that both diet on H335, with no problems at all. The H335 ran my Ar for around 4000 rounds before i got sick of the SKS like groups and cleaned it.
You might try a chamber brush. It Seems to have helped in the accuracy Dept on both my Ars. CDNN sports has them for like $2.

Oh, I use 25.7 grains of H335 under a 55Gn Vmax. Little itty bitty groups.

Loader9 · December 14, 2008, 11:37 PM

H380 is far too slow for use in a 223 with a 55 gr bullet. If you want the cleanest powder for the 223, try Ramshot TAC. It is formulated with detergents designed for use in AR style rifles. Even after several thousand rounds the action is functioning and fairly clean.

rn22723 · December 15, 2008, 12:43 AM

Quote:

H380 is far too slow for use in a 223 with a 55 gr bullet. If you want the cleanest powder for the 223, try Ramshot TAC. It is formulated with detergents designed for use in AR style rifles. Even after several thousand rounds the action is functioning and fairly clean.

I have now read the most absurd thing ever posted! Now that is funny!:barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf:

Powderman · December 15, 2008, 04:43 AM

Quote:

I have now read the most absurd thing ever posted! Now that is funny!

Actually, not absurd at all. Perhaps a poor choice of words, but not absurd.

Some powders DO leave a lot of garbage behind--witness, Bullseye and Unique--two excellent powders that require a LOT of cleaning when you're finished.

To the OP: Look at your loading manuals--the propellants listed for this cartridge are within the specified burning range to ensure proper functioning. For this cartridge, I have had great results with Varget, AA 2230, and (when I feel up to measuring every charge, because it doesn't meter too well) IMR 3031 in the .223 cartridge.

sourdough44 · December 15, 2008, 12:10 PM

Call me a TAC fan also.

Oberg · December 15, 2008, 01:20 PM

Also a Tac and X-Terminator fan... And I do believe TAC was made for the AR Black Hills uses it for there 77 gr matchking loads and army marksman use it in Afganahstan so it must be good lol... I have found it to be even cleaner then Varget

Alleykat · December 15, 2008, 01:37 PM

I wouldn't mind trying that TAC, but I'd like to know if all that detergent leaves bubbles. Wouldn't want a foaming AR.

I use 380 for .243 reloading. Wouldn't dream of using it for loading 55gr bullets for .223. Best accuracy for me, so far, has been with H335. Using 2200 now, just because it was REALLY cheap at the time.

TATER · December 15, 2008, 04:13 PM

Up your load.... Your brass is not expanding, as a result you are getting blow-by

The lowest start load I can find For H-380 using a 55 grain bullet is 25.0
.223 Remington
55 Grain FMJ
25.0 to 28.0 Max

Tim R · December 15, 2008, 05:34 PM

If the OP was shooting bullets a little heavier, I would have recommened Reloder 15 over Varget. Now Re-15 is a clean buring powder.

Crosshair · December 15, 2008, 06:26 PM

I've tried the same thing, the powder is too slow. You are getting an incomplete burn and the residue is gumming up your gun.

the machinist · December 15, 2008, 10:18 PM

Thanks guys, I ordered 8 pounds of ramshot today..I may up the load a little with the 380 just to see about the brass not expanding idea..sounds like this is the reason..

totalloser · December 20, 2008, 02:25 AM

It's not fouling from lube left on the cases, right? I had some trouble with that due to laziness. Later determined it was easier to tumble the finished rounds than to scrape a bunch of crap out of the chamber every couple hundred rounds. Laziness won out!

Alleykat · December 20, 2008, 09:33 AM

Quote:

I may up the load a little with the 380 just to see about the brass not expanding idea..sounds like this is the reason..

Sounds to me like your continuing to use a powder that's inappropriate might be the problem.

Loader9 · December 20, 2008, 11:24 AM

For those that would like to learn something:

Some other interesting properties have been incorporated into newer powders. Those developed for military small-arms rounds are not only cleaner burning than many older powders, but also contain chemicals that reduce jacket fouling. This allows longer trouble-free use in automatic military rifles, but also helps high-volume shooters such as prairie-doggers. Both the latest Alliant Reloader 15 (the powder used in U.S. military 5.56mm ammunition) and the Ramshot TAC line (developed in Belgium for NATO ammunition) reduce both powder and jacket fouling.

From an article by SWAT. If you are having issues with powder fouling in an AR style rifle, use a powder developed for that rifle.

TATER · December 20, 2008, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Sounds to me like your continuing to use a powder that's inappropriate might be the problem.

H-380 is not inappropriate, His charge weight is way too LOW. But, with that
Said, there are better powders.. When I first started loading .223 IMR 3031
Was the go to powder. These days, I don't know anyone using it...Others were 4198, 4064, 4895, 4320 and H-380
I guess, Its considered Old school even with me. Now, My mainstay powder for ARs is W-748.

the machinist · December 20, 2008, 11:29 PM

Quote:
I may up the load a little with the 380 just to see about the brass not expanding idea..sounds like this is the reason..
Sounds to me like your continuing to use a powder that's inappropriate might be the problem.

I actually loaded 25 this morning with 26g's of the 380 and they all fired and ran like a dream...I was just not dropping enough powder..

December 14, 2008, 10:29 PM	#1
the machinist Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Posts: 66	Powder gumming up my 223? I'm loading 23.3 grains of h380 with a 55grain jsp. The load is working fine in my DPMS but about every 2-5 shots the chamber gets fouled with black crap and the gun jams the round will not go all the way into the chamber, with alot of straining I can eventually get the live round out, run a brush through the chamber and the round will drop right in.. Is this powder really dirty? or is it possible I need more than the 23.3g's I remember when I switched from green dot to universal clays years ago i couldnt believe my eyes..thanks!!

December 14, 2008, 10:32 PM	#2
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,601	Switch to Varget and see what happens. __________________ God Bless our Troops especially our Snipers.

December 15, 2008, 05:34 PM	#11
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,601	If the OP was shooting bullets a little heavier, I would have recommened Reloder 15 over Varget. Now Re-15 is a clean buring powder. __________________ God Bless our Troops especially our Snipers.

December 15, 2008, 06:26 PM	#12
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	I've tried the same thing, the powder is too slow. You are getting an incomplete burn and the residue is gumming up your gun. __________________ I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me.

December 20, 2008, 02:25 AM	#14
totalloser Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2007 Location: Fort Bragg, CA Posts: 679	It's not fouling from lube left on the cases, right? I had some trouble with that due to laziness. Later determined it was easier to tumble the finished rounds than to scrape a bunch of crap out of the chamber every couple hundred rounds. Laziness won out! __________________ You only truly believe in freedom if you believe in the freedom of those you disagree.

December 14, 2008, 10:38 PM	#3
armedtotheteeth Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2005 Location: podunk, Texas Posts: 1,610	I hope you are not in need of a small based die. Are you full length sizing?? There is alway gonna be crud in a AR. That is the nature of the beast. I have no exp with H380, But I have an Ar15 and an Ar10 that both diet on H335, with no problems at all. The H335 ran my Ar for around 4000 rounds before i got sick of the SKS like groups and cleaned it. You might try a chamber brush. It Seems to have helped in the accuracy Dept on both my Ars. CDNN sports has them for like $2. Oh, I use 25.7 grains of H335 under a 55Gn Vmax. Little itty bitty groups.

December 14, 2008, 11:37 PM	#4
Loader9 Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2008 Posts: 949	H380 is far too slow for use in a 223 with a 55 gr bullet. If you want the cleanest powder for the 223, try Ramshot TAC. It is formulated with detergents designed for use in AR style rifles. Even after several thousand rounds the action is functioning and fairly clean.

December 15, 2008, 12:10 PM	#7
sourdough44 Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2007 Location: WI Posts: 621	Call me a TAC fan also.

December 15, 2008, 01:20 PM	#8
Oberg Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2008 Location: Minn Posts: 212	Also a Tac and X-Terminator fan... And I do believe TAC was made for the AR Black Hills uses it for there 77 gr matchking loads and army marksman use it in Afganahstan so it must be good lol... I have found it to be even cleaner then Varget

December 15, 2008, 01:37 PM	#9
Alleykat Junior member Join Date: July 26, 2007 Posts: 3,668	I wouldn't mind trying that TAC, but I'd like to know if all that detergent leaves bubbles. Wouldn't want a foaming AR. I use 380 for .243 reloading. Wouldn't dream of using it for loading 55gr bullets for .223. Best accuracy for me, so far, has been with H335. Using 2200 now, just because it was REALLY cheap at the time.

December 15, 2008, 04:13 PM	#10
TATER Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 963	Up your load.... Your brass is not expanding, as a result you are getting blow-by The lowest start load I can find For H-380 using a 55 grain bullet is 25.0 .223 Remington 55 Grain FMJ 25.0 to 28.0 Max

December 15, 2008, 10:18 PM	#13
the machinist Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Posts: 66	Thanks guys, I ordered 8 pounds of ramshot today..I may up the load a little with the 380 just to see about the brass not expanding idea..sounds like this is the reason..

December 20, 2008, 11:24 AM	#16
Loader9 Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2008 Posts: 949	For those that would like to learn something: Some other interesting properties have been incorporated into newer powders. Those developed for military small-arms rounds are not only cleaner burning than many older powders, but also contain chemicals that reduce jacket fouling. This allows longer trouble-free use in automatic military rifles, but also helps high-volume shooters such as prairie-doggers. Both the latest Alliant Reloader 15 (the powder used in U.S. military 5.56mm ammunition) and the Ramshot TAC line (developed in Belgium for NATO ammunition) reduce both powder and jacket fouling. From an article by SWAT. If you are having issues with powder fouling in an AR style rifle, use a powder developed for that rifle.

December 20, 2008, 11:29 PM	#18
the machinist Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Posts: 66	Quote: I may up the load a little with the 380 just to see about the brass not expanding idea..sounds like this is the reason.. Sounds to me like your continuing to use a powder that's inappropriate might be the problem. I actually loaded 25 this morning with 26g's of the 380 and they all fired and ran like a dream...I was just not dropping enough powder..