Seeking knowledge of Makarovs

Pahoo · May 27, 2012, 12:49 PM

I am not all too familiar with Russian Makarovs or any other Makarov, for that matter. Are there feqatures that are more disireable, than others, like calibers, grips and so on? I noticed some that have a star grips and others don't. Any and all assist, would be greatly appreciated. ......

Be Safe !!!

lee n. field · May 27, 2012, 01:02 PM

IIRC, most desirable are East German and Russian milsurp. And Chinese commercial, on account of rarity.

Chamberings, will basically be 9mm Makarov and .380 in some made for export models (some Baikal, some Arsenal guns).

Grips -- a lot will come with "target" grips, intended to up the guns score on the ATF's import points system. Most of these I've seen are kind of nasty. IMHO, YMMV, Insert standard disclaimer here. Best grips to actually use are the original military grips. My preference, back when I had Makarovs, was the East German military grip.

Most commonly encountered is the basic Bulgarian milsurp.

I assume you've perused http://www.makarov.com/.

Thirties · May 27, 2012, 01:12 PM

Check these out . . .

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...-and-Misc-URLs

Doyle · May 27, 2012, 01:17 PM

Milspec Maks all carry the same design and the parts are interchangeable regardless of which country made them. They were made in Russia, Bulgaria, East Germany, and China under military contract. Of those, East German versions tended to have the best fit/finish and the Chinese the worst (although they also command a high price simply due to their rarity in the American market). After the Berlin Wall fell, the old East German factory was reopened by a commercial concern and they finished using up the raw materials/parts and sold them on the commercial market. This Mak was called the Simson/Suhl (sp?). Those are by far the most desirable Maks and they command a premium price. In addition to having superior fit and finish, they also had a pretty significant design change that makes them very desirable.

A normal Mak has a funky safety mechanism the requires you to take the safety OFF in order to rack the slide. This is kind of a hinderance when you want to clear a dud round. The post-unification Maks had a different safety that allows you to rack the slide with the safety ON. Ordinary Makarovs can be converted to this feature by changing out 3 parts. Therefore, just because you find one that allows you to rack the slide with the safety ON, don't automatically assume it is a Simson/Suhl. A previous owner might have made the conversion.

In addition to the Milspec versions I've spoken of, there is a Russian Commercial version called the IJ-70. The most significant difference between that and the milspec version is that the commercal version has adjustable sights and rubberized grips instead of the normal bakelite versions. The commercial version also came in .380 and I think I've even seen some double-stack models.

Webleymkv · May 27, 2012, 01:22 PM

Also be aware that there are other guns which are often incorrectly referred to as 'Makarovs' because they fire the same cartridge. Such guns include the Polish P64 and P83, Czech CZ-82, and Hungarian PA-63.

carguychris · May 27, 2012, 01:59 PM

The Russian commercial IJ-70 variants were sold by a wide variety of brand names, including IMEZ, Izhmash, Baikal, Big Bear Arms, and KBI. Most of the pistols are more or less mechanically identical, although some may have "target" grips (see above) and all but a few have an adjustable rear sight, which has somewhat of a bad reputation because it's fragile and tends to break off if the pistol is dropped.

Double-stack Makarovs were usually labeled IJ-70-18AH or -17AH and were sold with a 12rd or 10rd mag depending upon whether the AWB was in force when they were imported. The double-stack mag is a 2-into-1 column design to allow the use of a standard slide, so the top end of the gun is the same size as a standard Mak, but the grip frame is much thicker. Other than the less CCW-friendly grip size, the main problem with the double-stack guns is spare mag availability; most of the guns were apparently sold with a single mag and the importers didn't sell many spares, so spare mags are scarce and command high prices on the auction websites. OTOH the single-stack pistols all take the same mags, regardless of whether they're military or commercial, and spares are cheap and readily available.

The commercial versions are generally less expensive than the military ones, but prices have risen over the last few years and closed the gap somewhat; these guns used to sell for $120-$150, but values have climbed into the $250 range as it's become clear that the pipeline of new ones has probably been shut down permanently.

Webleymkv · May 27, 2012, 02:29 PM

Quote:

OTOH the single-stack pistols all take the same mags, regardless of whether they're military or commercial, and spares are cheap and readily available.

Single-stack mags are interchangeable between Maks in .380 and 9x18 as well.

May 27, 2012, 12:49 PM	#1
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Seeking knowledge of Makarovs I am not all too familiar with Russian Makarovs or any other Makarov, for that matter. Are there feqatures that are more disireable, than others, like calibers, grips and so on? I noticed some that have a star grips and others don't. Any and all assist, would be greatly appreciated. ...... Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

May 27, 2012, 01:02 PM	#2
lee n. field Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2002 Location: The same state as Mordor. Posts: 5,568	IIRC, most desirable are East German and Russian milsurp. And Chinese commercial, on account of rarity. Chamberings, will basically be 9mm Makarov and .380 in some made for export models (some Baikal, some Arsenal guns). Grips -- a lot will come with "target" grips, intended to up the guns score on the ATF's import points system. Most of these I've seen are kind of nasty. IMHO, YMMV, Insert standard disclaimer here. Best grips to actually use are the original military grips. My preference, back when I had Makarovs, was the East German military grip. Most commonly encountered is the basic Bulgarian milsurp. I assume you've perused http://www.makarov.com/. __________________ "As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. "

May 27, 2012, 01:12 PM	#3
Thirties Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2001 Location: Where the Red Sox meet the Black Bears Posts: 561	Makarov links . . . Check these out . . . http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...-and-Misc-URLs Last edited by Thirties; May 27, 2012 at 01:12 PM. Reason: spelling

May 27, 2012, 01:59 PM	#6
carguychris Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 7,523	The Russian commercial IJ-70 variants were sold by a wide variety of brand names, including IMEZ, Izhmash, Baikal, Big Bear Arms, and KBI. Most of the pistols are more or less mechanically identical, although some may have "target" grips (see above) and all but a few have an adjustable rear sight, which has somewhat of a bad reputation because it's fragile and tends to break off if the pistol is dropped. Double-stack Makarovs were usually labeled IJ-70-18AH or -17AH and were sold with a 12rd or 10rd mag depending upon whether the AWB was in force when they were imported. The double-stack mag is a 2-into-1 column design to allow the use of a standard slide, so the top end of the gun is the same size as a standard Mak, but the grip frame is much thicker. Other than the less CCW-friendly grip size, the main problem with the double-stack guns is spare mag availability; most of the guns were apparently sold with a single mag and the importers didn't sell many spares, so spare mags are scarce and command high prices on the auction websites. OTOH the single-stack pistols all take the same mags, regardless of whether they're military or commercial, and spares are cheap and readily available. The commercial versions are generally less expensive than the military ones, but prices have risen over the last few years and closed the gap somewhat; these guns used to sell for $120-$150, but values have climbed into the $250 range as it's become clear that the pipeline of new ones has probably been shut down permanently. __________________ "Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak

May 27, 2012, 01:17 PM	#4
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	Milspec Maks all carry the same design and the parts are interchangeable regardless of which country made them. They were made in Russia, Bulgaria, East Germany, and China under military contract. Of those, East German versions tended to have the best fit/finish and the Chinese the worst (although they also command a high price simply due to their rarity in the American market). After the Berlin Wall fell, the old East German factory was reopened by a commercial concern and they finished using up the raw materials/parts and sold them on the commercial market. This Mak was called the Simson/Suhl (sp?). Those are by far the most desirable Maks and they command a premium price. In addition to having superior fit and finish, they also had a pretty significant design change that makes them very desirable. A normal Mak has a funky safety mechanism the requires you to take the safety OFF in order to rack the slide. This is kind of a hinderance when you want to clear a dud round. The post-unification Maks had a different safety that allows you to rack the slide with the safety ON. Ordinary Makarovs can be converted to this feature by changing out 3 parts. Therefore, just because you find one that allows you to rack the slide with the safety ON, don't automatically assume it is a Simson/Suhl. A previous owner might have made the conversion. In addition to the Milspec versions I've spoken of, there is a Russian Commercial version called the IJ-70. The most significant difference between that and the milspec version is that the commercal version has adjustable sights and rubberized grips instead of the normal bakelite versions. The commercial version also came in .380 and I think I've even seen some double-stack models.

May 27, 2012, 01:22 PM	#5
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 10,446	Also be aware that there are other guns which are often incorrectly referred to as 'Makarovs' because they fire the same cartridge. Such guns include the Polish P64 and P83, Czech CZ-82, and Hungarian PA-63.