QUALITY..does it matter?

MASTERCAST.COM · November 11, 2008, 12:18 AM

Folks,

I am curious...does quality really matter any more?

I keep seeing posts requesting the "CHEAPEST" price. Is "CHEAP" the new goal for those of us in business?

Mike
Mastercast.com

Sport45 · November 11, 2008, 12:37 AM

Mike,

I think the answer to that depends on the shooter. The folks capable of shooting 2"-3" groups at 25 yards should be looking for higher quality than guys like me who are really doing good to shoot 3" groups at 10 yards.

I think I have a long way to go with technique and execution before I'll really see a difference between your bullets and one of the lesser priced alternatives. So for now I base my choice on price but don't use suppliers who's products have come in over or undersize or caused leading in the past. That will no doubt change as I get better.

When I was getting to know my rifles I shot a lot of bulk pack and surplus bullets. As I've gotten better I moved to better quality bullets for seroius work and save the bulk pack for plinking or for my kids to shoot. I figure my handgun shooting will take the same path. (It doesn't make a lot of sense to pay top dollar for bullets for teenagers to just make noise with.)

DIXIEDOG · November 11, 2008, 01:35 AM

I want both, cheap and quality

That being said I did just order some bullets from you (still haven't got them though

, Oh ya I want cheap, quality, and faster than can be expected delivery

) The quality of your bullets seems to be really good from the samples you sent me, I didn't find your prices to be much higher than anyone else and you were willing to stick your neck out and send me samples. Why are sales down? Prices going up?

Hawg · November 11, 2008, 02:56 AM

I cast my own and am very pleased with them. If I was buying I'd shop around for the best quality at the cheapest price.

kraigwy · November 11, 2008, 08:48 AM

I notice a lot of post regarding people talking about cheap blasting ammo. You want cheap blasting ammo, throw rocks.

You can have quality ammo without going broke. Reload, then you are in charge of quality ammo.

I cast bullets for just about all the guns I have. Its cheap in over all cost, but if done right its expensive in labor. Reloading is an enjoyable part of shooting. I get more pleasure out of a 2 moa cast 308 bullet then I do with a Sierra Match king.

When I reload for High Power or long range matches I dont reload for cheap, I reload for quality.

I guess it depends on what you want, to make noise or shoot scores.

JMHO

Sevens · November 11, 2008, 08:59 AM

I think quality meant more to me when I could buy my primers $8 for 1,000. And a 25 pound bag of skeet #9 shot was twelve bucks. And a pound of Bullseye went for $9. And a box of 100 jacketed pistol bullets could be had for 7 or 8 bucks.

Actually, it's an interesting progression. I'm a much better shooter now, so I can get better shooting out of cheaper projectiles. Still costing more, though. Biggest difference NOW from THEN is that now I've got a house, wife, kids, and lots of bills.

Quality will always matter. The problem some folks seem to have is that they figure their idea of quality and the importance of it should be applied to other folks' wants and needs. In other areas of this discussion site you'll find plenty of folks who won't ever toy around with Kel-Tec, Ruger, RIA or Taurus handguns. For plenty of others, these cheaper brands offer a lot.

For me, I could have been reloading for 20 years on a shoe string budget with a lot of Lee (and assorted other) equipment, or I could have been not reloading at all, paying too much for factory ammo and not doing enough shooting to get any better at it.

I consider myself smart enough to figure out how much quality I need. A lot of us find this out the hard way by getting poor use out of junk the first time. But that's valuable experience also.

rwilson452 · November 11, 2008, 09:19 AM

Quality?

For Pistol bullets I buy cheap. I'm not a bullseye pistol shooter. I go for accuracy with my long guns. I'm not budgeted for high end bullets for my rifles so I find the best fit I can. This usually winds up being Sierra bullets.. So much for bullets. I shoot mostly 45ACP for pistol. I'm not the least bit picky about brass. I have collected a lot of brass that is mostly military. 45ACP brass doesn't seem to wear out very quickly, doesn't need trimming. I shoot it until it breaks. For rifle brass I buy mostly winchester or remington. whichever works best in a rifle. I have surmised that I can spend two to three times as much for high end brass or sort out moderately priced brass and sort by weight and get the same result.

snuffy · November 11, 2008, 12:03 PM

Of course quality matters. That's why I cast my own. I inspect each boolit for surface irregularities, then I weigh each boolit before sizing and lubing. That results in a cull rate of up to 50%. The results on target are then the load or the shooter, not the boolit. I get even pickier when it's for a rifle.

However,,, when loading for IPPSC or IDPA, those boolits are not given nearly the scrutiny the others get. The ranges can be as close as 1 foot,(point blank), but seldom further than 25 yards. As long as they're filled out completely, they get loaded. I even did a test with inspected and weighed, versus whatever fell from the mold, there wasn't much difference,(45 auto SA 1911).

So I guess it depends on what the application is going to be.

For a commercial caster, the decision has to be where to draw the line. Do you do as I do, inspect each and every bullet, then lube them? Of course not. That would slow you down to a crawl. Your prices would have to reflect that care, and you wouldn't be able to keep up with demand if you got a lot of customers. Which is exactly why I never even thought of getting into commercial casting.

BigJimP · November 11, 2008, 12:24 PM

Yes, Quality matters a lot - that's why for pistol bullets I only load a premium bullet, Montana Gold, for range, etc. I don't have any use for "cheap".

ShootingNut · November 11, 2008, 12:28 PM

Mike is running a business, like I have been for over 40 years (started young).

I only build houses one way, and that is with QUALITY, refusing to cut corners.
If I know Mike at all, he only knows how to make bullits one way, with Quality.
Doing it right costs money, thankfully there are Folks who appreciate and can afford that, and are willing to pay up for it. Ya, I'm one of his happy customers (if he get's the rest of my order out)!

Regards,
SN

44Magnum · November 11, 2008, 01:19 PM

I absolutely refuse to sacrifice quality for price, period. That's why I don't shoot 100's of rounds per trip...I can't afford it. I would rather shoot 100 quality rounds well than 300 "economy" rounds just "so-so."

In fact, this is what got me into handloading. More people need to support companies that put out a quality product. Right now, it seems we're on a race to the bottom. :barf:

The guys at the IDPA meets always joke about me because I use such good ammunition for punching paper (or in this case, cardboard).

Sport45 · November 11, 2008, 09:52 PM

Mike,

Please post a link to your website. Mastercast.com takes us to a caster, but not bullets. There are two mastercast bullet companies on Google, I didn't want to post the wrong one on the THR thread here. I haven't used your bullets yet, but you have a great reputation for quality bullets and I was going to pass the link along.

DIXIEDOG · November 11, 2008, 10:00 PM

I'm not Mike but I can link you to his website

WWW.MASTERCASTBULLETS.COM

orionengnr · November 11, 2008, 10:22 PM

I think one of the earlier posters hit it right on the head. At my current ability level (five shots into one ragged hole at 25 feet), the lead bullets I'm buying (locally) are quite satisfactory.

My 25 yard groups, on the other hand, are currently 3 1/2- 4" on a good day. When I can shoot a repeatable 3" or under group at that distance, then the bullet may be limiting me.
Then again, the trigger or the barrel (or any number of other things) may be the limiting factor.

Now, which helps me to develop my skills more? To shoot a bunch of less expensive bullets (which are the most expensive component of handloaded ammo) or to shoot a smaller number of more expensive, arguably more accurate bullets?

At my current skill level, I believe I benefit more from repetition and focusing on the fundamentals--sight picture and trigger press.

Nothing against your product, and I hope to be a customer some day.

azredhawk44 · November 11, 2008, 10:33 PM

Mike:

I love your bullets and the price point they are sold at (at least when I bought them 6 months ago) is extremely reasonable. I haven't shot up what I've bought yet, but I think it's safe to assume that you are still leading the market in value for product.

I will admit that my serious back-country .44 loads are constructed with Beartooth gas-checked bullets, but they use the same powder loads and bullet weights I work up with your projectiles for fodder.

This is simply because I do not know the hardness rating of your bullets in comparison to those offered by Beartooth. If you could tell me that yours are absolutely not going to deform, mushroom or fragment inside of a black bear or charging bull then I'd carry yours. I have yet to shoot any big game with the .44 and recover a bullet to find out.

I have a lot of respect for your product though, Mike, and I'll be putting in another order for several thousand of your projectiles this up-coming spring!

zippy13 · November 11, 2008, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Hawg Haggen: I cast my own and am very pleased with them. If I was buying I'd shop around for the best quality at the cheapest price.

+1
My home casts are loaded with same-lot commercial brass. I'm amused by the folks who'll load premium bullets with unsorted range brass and then question the bullet's accuracy.

Inspector3711 · November 11, 2008, 11:13 PM

Does quality matter? It does to me (look at my name here). But I can also understand the guy that goes out and shoots cans for fun and shoots on a tight budget. +1 for reloading. It has been and still remains the only way I can afford to shoot my centerfire rifles.

I shoot the .22's a lot because they are cheap yet accurate.

I used to buy the cheapest lamo 38 ammo for my .357 and I would shoot box after box of it in the woods. Sometimes 10 boxes in a day. I always brought at least one box of quality .357 fare though and that old Blackhawk really liked the Winchester Lawman hollow point loads. I kept it ready with Lawman at home too.

This allowed me to plink alot when I only made 9 bucks an hour yet still get some practice in with accurate ammo and a target. Of course it also allowed me to stay familiar with the extra recoil which is pretty important in my estimation. Those .38's kicked like a bb gun.

I cared about quality then but I couldn't afford the cost of reloading up front. I also couldn't shoot $20 boxes of ammo all day but I could afford remanufactured .38 specials at $4.95 a box.

Now days with the inflation some folks are in the same boat I was back then. When you can't afford ribeye you buy chuck steak.

Buy the way, I bought that Blackhawk back around 1989 and it was a bicentenial model. I bought it on layaway from an old pawn shop for $150. I put a good 5,000 rounds through it and sold it for $150 in 1993 (needed money after the divorce). The guy still has it. I need to get another.

I've just started being able to afford shooting again in the last 2 years.

Dr. Strangelove · November 12, 2008, 12:08 AM

Code:

Is "CHEAP" the new goal for those of us in business?

Unfortunately, for many, if not most companies it is. They're trying to hit profit margins demanded by shareholders and price points demanded by retailers, who are influenced by customers conditioned by the big box stores to expect throw-away products at dirt cheap prices.

It's very refreshing to see you as one of the few craftsmen out there who still cares about quality. If I get back into shooting cast bullets, I'll certainly throw an order your way. It's discouraging to see the quality of mass market manufactured goods today, but we as consumers have done it to ourselves by not demanding better.

A couple of examples - my grandmother used the same Frigidaire from about 1950 until the mid 90's when she moved into a condo that already had a refrigerator. We had to have the new one fixed twice while she was alive. Now one manufacturer makes a refrigerator with a TV in the door. If we hadn't sold the old 1950 Frigidaire, I would have bet it would still be going strong when the one with the TV was in the landfill. Seriously? A TV in a refrigerator? Just because it will hold one doesn't mean it needs one...

I've been looking around for some camping equipment lately. I've been shocked by the low quality of what I see out there. Coleman products in particular have gone way down hill. I still have some items from twenty five years ago when I was a Boy Scout, good luck still having it around next week with their new stuff. I don't need Everest quality products, but I don't want disposable equipment either. You can't really blame Coleman, they're only producing what the public continues to purchase.

Seems like most of the quality stuff has retreated to the web and catalogs only, it's a shame because I like to be able to touch what I'm buying, especially with the lack of quality today.

Sorry for the essay, it's just a subject that's been very frustrating to me lately. Unfortunately, until we as consumers move away from a throw-away society and demand quality from manufacturers, we'll continue to see cheap crap designed to minimal standards filling the shelves of the big box stores and driving the few companies who do care out of business.

Smaug · November 12, 2008, 12:17 AM

Quality at a reasonable price is important. For me, it doesn't have to be the lowest price, but it has to be reasonable for what I'm getting.

Another thing to keep in mind is that your customers must be able to TELL BEFORE BUYING that he will be getting a higher quality product.

Convenience is another thing. I haven't ordered bullets from you yet, but I must say I really like the flat rate shipping option Meister has going. It is damned convenient.

One thing you could do is compare your bullets' hardness against others. I don't want soft lead bullets. The less they lead my guns, the better.

FrankenMauser · November 12, 2008, 01:10 AM

I appreciate the manufacturers that still believe in quality, but when it comes to cast pistol bullets.... I don't use them for accuracy or hunting applications. For me, cast lead equals trigger time on rocks, lizards, pumpkins, and anything else worthy of blasting. I don't accept such low quality as one of the operations out of Las Vegas. (His free 'samples' didn't even have the mold halves aligned, and were not swedged.) But, I do buy anything that is consistent enough to not cause problems without leading.

Dr. Strangelove....

Quote:

I've been looking around for some camping equipment lately. I've been shocked by the low quality of what I see out there. Coleman products in particular have gone way down hill. I still have some items from twenty five years ago when I was a Boy Scout, good luck still having it around next week with their new stuff. I don't need Everest quality products, but I don't want disposable equipment either. You can't really blame Coleman, they're only producing what the public continues to purchase.

You hit the nail right on the head. My 6 year old "high quality" tent is falling apart like it was left to rot in the sun for 10 years.
Yet... for this year's Elk hunt, we pulled my grandparents' Springbar tent out of retirement. Warm, Dry, Sturdy, and Reliable. 40+ years old and it's still kicking like a newborn.

ShootingNut · November 12, 2008, 06:51 AM

From your post, it sounds like you may not have ever ordered lead from
Mike at Mastercast?
He ships USPS Flat Rate of $8.90 up to 70 pounds of lead. Is Meister any different?
His lead is BHN20 hardness, and believe me leaves barely a trace in your barrel. At least that is my expierence with several calibers and guns.
Not that it matters, but I see both you guys are in the "great state" of Illinois.
Regards,
SN

Smaug · November 12, 2008, 11:34 AM

SN, you're right, I haven't bought from Mastercast yet. I don't know the hardness of Meister's alloy, so I can't really compare.

Good to know he's in Illinois, that should mean quick shipping.

Smaug · November 12, 2008, 11:36 AM

Just went to mastercast.com and found only a bunch of dumb golf emblems.

Mike may want to ask to have his username changed to MASTERCAST.NET...

Two more suggestions:

1) Gear up to accept internet orders. Lots of times, I place orders in the wee hours and don't feel comfortable leaving my CC info on a machine. Is it prohibitively expensive?

2) Carry a bigger variety of 44 cal bullets. At least a 185 gr. SWC or RNFP

3) Participate more here and on other fora, (the high road, etc.) and offer bullet & reloading advise that is not always self-serving. This is seen as excellent customer service

I see he added the 380 bullets. Bravo! I'll be placing my next 380 order from him too.

Prices seem good. If quality is also good, he may have a happy customer.

Be patient. It takes time to build a reputation.

O6nop · November 12, 2008, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Folks,

I am curious...does quality really matter any more?

I keep seeing posts requesting the "CHEAPEST" price. Is "CHEAP" the new goal for those of us in business?

Mike
Mastercast.com

way too confusing...

www.Mastercast.net is already being used by a bullet maker,
the other site is www.mastercastbullets.com
The one he (Mike) posted is for anything but bullets. www.mastercast.com

I've ordered from one of them, not sure which, I don't know which one is better, and not sure which site is Mike's (does he know?). I ordered as much as I could for the flat rate (about 70#) and still have plenty.

Sport45 · November 12, 2008, 08:07 PM

I believe the OP's site is www.mastercastbullets.com as posted by dixiedog. It is confusing that it's listed as mastercast.com in his post.

I never mail order from companies that are in my home state (Texas) if I don't have to. Buying in-state means I pay sales tax and shipping. If I buy from out of state I only have to pay shipping. That usually winds up costing less in the long run.

November 11, 2008, 12:18 AM	#1
MASTERCAST.COM Junior member Join Date: December 16, 2007 Posts: 63	QUALITY..does it matter? Folks, I am curious...does quality really matter any more? I keep seeing posts requesting the "CHEAPEST" price. Is "CHEAP" the new goal for those of us in business? Mike Mastercast.com

November 11, 2008, 12:37 AM	#2
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	Mike, I think the answer to that depends on the shooter. The folks capable of shooting 2"-3" groups at 25 yards should be looking for higher quality than guys like me who are really doing good to shoot 3" groups at 10 yards. I think I have a long way to go with technique and execution before I'll really see a difference between your bullets and one of the lesser priced alternatives. So for now I base my choice on price but don't use suppliers who's products have come in over or undersize or caused leading in the past. That will no doubt change as I get better. When I was getting to know my rifles I shot a lot of bulk pack and surplus bullets. As I've gotten better I moved to better quality bullets for seroius work and save the bulk pack for plinking or for my kids to shoot. I figure my handgun shooting will take the same path. (It doesn't make a lot of sense to pay top dollar for bullets for teenagers to just make noise with.) __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

November 11, 2008, 01:35 AM	#3
DIXIEDOG Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2007 Location: Maine Posts: 265	I want both, cheap and quality That being said I did just order some bullets from you (still haven't got them though, Oh ya I want cheap, quality, and faster than can be expected delivery) The quality of your bullets seems to be really good from the samples you sent me, I didn't find your prices to be much higher than anyone else and you were willing to stick your neck out and send me samples. Why are sales down? Prices going up?

November 11, 2008, 08:48 AM	#5
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	I notice a lot of post regarding people talking about cheap blasting ammo. You want cheap blasting ammo, throw rocks. You can have quality ammo without going broke. Reload, then you are in charge of quality ammo. I cast bullets for just about all the guns I have. Its cheap in over all cost, but if done right its expensive in labor. Reloading is an enjoyable part of shooting. I get more pleasure out of a 2 moa cast 308 bullet then I do with a Sierra Match king. When I reload for High Power or long range matches I dont reload for cheap, I reload for quality. I guess it depends on what you want, to make noise or shoot scores. JMHO __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

November 11, 2008, 08:59 AM	#6
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I think quality meant more to me when I could buy my primers $8 for 1,000. And a 25 pound bag of skeet #9 shot was twelve bucks. And a pound of Bullseye went for $9. And a box of 100 jacketed pistol bullets could be had for 7 or 8 bucks. Actually, it's an interesting progression. I'm a much better shooter now, so I can get better shooting out of cheaper projectiles. Still costing more, though. Biggest difference NOW from THEN is that now I've got a house, wife, kids, and lots of bills. Quality will always matter. The problem some folks seem to have is that they figure their idea of quality and the importance of it should be applied to other folks' wants and needs. In other areas of this discussion site you'll find plenty of folks who won't ever toy around with Kel-Tec, Ruger, RIA or Taurus handguns. For plenty of others, these cheaper brands offer a lot. For me, I could have been reloading for 20 years on a shoe string budget with a lot of Lee (and assorted other) equipment, or I could have been not reloading at all, paying too much for factory ammo and not doing enough shooting to get any better at it. I consider myself smart enough to figure out how much quality I need. A lot of us find this out the hard way by getting poor use out of junk the first time. But that's valuable experience also. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

November 11, 2008, 02:56 AM	#4
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	I cast my own and am very pleased with them. If I was buying I'd shop around for the best quality at the cheapest price.

November 11, 2008, 09:19 AM	#7
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	Quality? For Pistol bullets I buy cheap. I'm not a bullseye pistol shooter. I go for accuracy with my long guns. I'm not budgeted for high end bullets for my rifles so I find the best fit I can. This usually winds up being Sierra bullets.. So much for bullets. I shoot mostly 45ACP for pistol. I'm not the least bit picky about brass. I have collected a lot of brass that is mostly military. 45ACP brass doesn't seem to wear out very quickly, doesn't need trimming. I shoot it until it breaks. For rifle brass I buy mostly winchester or remington. whichever works best in a rifle. I have surmised that I can spend two to three times as much for high end brass or sort out moderately priced brass and sort by weight and get the same result.

November 11, 2008, 12:03 PM	#8
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	Of course quality matters. That's why I cast my own. I inspect each boolit for surface irregularities, then I weigh each boolit before sizing and lubing. That results in a cull rate of up to 50%. The results on target are then the load or the shooter, not the boolit. I get even pickier when it's for a rifle. However,,, when loading for IPPSC or IDPA, those boolits are not given nearly the scrutiny the others get. The ranges can be as close as 1 foot,(point blank), but seldom further than 25 yards. As long as they're filled out completely, they get loaded. I even did a test with inspected and weighed, versus whatever fell from the mold, there wasn't much difference,(45 auto SA 1911). So I guess it depends on what the application is going to be. For a commercial caster, the decision has to be where to draw the line. Do you do as I do, inspect each and every bullet, then lube them? Of course not. That would slow you down to a crawl. Your prices would have to reflect that care, and you wouldn't be able to keep up with demand if you got a lot of customers. Which is exactly why I never even thought of getting into commercial casting. __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

November 11, 2008, 12:24 PM	#9
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Yes, Quality matters a lot - that's why for pistol bullets I only load a premium bullet, Montana Gold, for range, etc. I don't have any use for "cheap".

November 11, 2008, 12:28 PM	#10
ShootingNut Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,475	Its A Personality Thing Mike is running a business, like I have been for over 40 years (started young). I only build houses one way, and that is with QUALITY, refusing to cut corners. If I know Mike at all, he only knows how to make bullits one way, with Quality. Doing it right costs money, thankfully there are Folks who appreciate and can afford that, and are willing to pay up for it. Ya, I'm one of his happy customers (if he get's the rest of my order out)! Regards, SN

November 11, 2008, 01:19 PM	#11
44Magnum Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Posts: 325	I absolutely refuse to sacrifice quality for price, period. That's why I don't shoot 100's of rounds per trip...I can't afford it. I would rather shoot 100 quality rounds well than 300 "economy" rounds just "so-so." In fact, this is what got me into handloading. More people need to support companies that put out a quality product. Right now, it seems we're on a race to the bottom. :barf: The guys at the IDPA meets always joke about me because I use such good ammunition for punching paper (or in this case, cardboard). __________________ "It'll all fit in there, it must be a compressed load." I never joined SAMMI.

November 11, 2008, 09:52 PM	#12
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	Mike, Please post a link to your website. Mastercast.com takes us to a caster, but not bullets. There are two mastercast bullet companies on Google, I didn't want to post the wrong one on the THR thread here. I haven't used your bullets yet, but you have a great reputation for quality bullets and I was going to pass the link along. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

November 11, 2008, 10:00 PM	#13
DIXIEDOG Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2007 Location: Maine Posts: 265	I'm not Mike but I can link you to his website WWW.MASTERCASTBULLETS.COM

November 11, 2008, 10:22 PM	#14
orionengnr Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2004 Posts: 5,177	I think one of the earlier posters hit it right on the head. At my current ability level (five shots into one ragged hole at 25 feet), the lead bullets I'm buying (locally) are quite satisfactory. My 25 yard groups, on the other hand, are currently 3 1/2- 4" on a good day. When I can shoot a repeatable 3" or under group at that distance, then the bullet may be limiting me. Then again, the trigger or the barrel (or any number of other things) may be the limiting factor. Now, which helps me to develop my skills more? To shoot a bunch of less expensive bullets (which are the most expensive component of handloaded ammo) or to shoot a smaller number of more expensive, arguably more accurate bullets? At my current skill level, I believe I benefit more from repetition and focusing on the fundamentals--sight picture and trigger press. Nothing against your product, and I hope to be a customer some day. Last edited by orionengnr; November 11, 2008 at 10:32 PM.

November 11, 2008, 10:33 PM	#15
azredhawk44 Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 6,465	Mike: I love your bullets and the price point they are sold at (at least when I bought them 6 months ago) is extremely reasonable. I haven't shot up what I've bought yet, but I think it's safe to assume that you are still leading the market in value for product. I will admit that my serious back-country .44 loads are constructed with Beartooth gas-checked bullets, but they use the same powder loads and bullet weights I work up with your projectiles for fodder. This is simply because I do not know the hardness rating of your bullets in comparison to those offered by Beartooth. If you could tell me that yours are absolutely not going to deform, mushroom or fragment inside of a black bear or charging bull then I'd carry yours. I have yet to shoot any big game with the .44 and recover a bullet to find out. I have a lot of respect for your product though, Mike, and I'll be putting in another order for several thousand of your projectiles this up-coming spring!

November 11, 2008, 11:13 PM	#17
Inspector3711 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2008 Location: Puget Sound Washington Posts: 1,553	Does quality matter? It does to me (look at my name here). But I can also understand the guy that goes out and shoots cans for fun and shoots on a tight budget. +1 for reloading. It has been and still remains the only way I can afford to shoot my centerfire rifles. I shoot the .22's a lot because they are cheap yet accurate. I used to buy the cheapest lamo 38 ammo for my .357 and I would shoot box after box of it in the woods. Sometimes 10 boxes in a day. I always brought at least one box of quality .357 fare though and that old Blackhawk really liked the Winchester Lawman hollow point loads. I kept it ready with Lawman at home too. This allowed me to plink alot when I only made 9 bucks an hour yet still get some practice in with accurate ammo and a target. Of course it also allowed me to stay familiar with the extra recoil which is pretty important in my estimation. Those .38's kicked like a bb gun. I cared about quality then but I couldn't afford the cost of reloading up front. I also couldn't shoot $20 boxes of ammo all day but I could afford remanufactured .38 specials at $4.95 a box. Now days with the inflation some folks are in the same boat I was back then. When you can't afford ribeye you buy chuck steak. Buy the way, I bought that Blackhawk back around 1989 and it was a bicentenial model. I bought it on layaway from an old pawn shop for $150. I put a good 5,000 rounds through it and sold it for $150 in 1993 (needed money after the divorce). The guy still has it. I need to get another. I've just started being able to afford shooting again in the last 2 years. __________________ "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." The Dalai Llama (5/15/01, The Seattle Times) "That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." George Orwell

November 12, 2008, 12:08 AM	#18
Dr. Strangelove Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2008 Location: Athens, GA Posts: 1,436	Code: Is "CHEAP" the new goal for those of us in business? Unfortunately, for many, if not most companies it is. They're trying to hit profit margins demanded by shareholders and price points demanded by retailers, who are influenced by customers conditioned by the big box stores to expect throw-away products at dirt cheap prices. It's very refreshing to see you as one of the few craftsmen out there who still cares about quality. If I get back into shooting cast bullets, I'll certainly throw an order your way. It's discouraging to see the quality of mass market manufactured goods today, but we as consumers have done it to ourselves by not demanding better. A couple of examples - my grandmother used the same Frigidaire from about 1950 until the mid 90's when she moved into a condo that already had a refrigerator. We had to have the new one fixed twice while she was alive. Now one manufacturer makes a refrigerator with a TV in the door. If we hadn't sold the old 1950 Frigidaire, I would have bet it would still be going strong when the one with the TV was in the landfill. Seriously? A TV in a refrigerator? Just because it will hold one doesn't mean it needs one... I've been looking around for some camping equipment lately. I've been shocked by the low quality of what I see out there. Coleman products in particular have gone way down hill. I still have some items from twenty five years ago when I was a Boy Scout, good luck still having it around next week with their new stuff. I don't need Everest quality products, but I don't want disposable equipment either. You can't really blame Coleman, they're only producing what the public continues to purchase. Seems like most of the quality stuff has retreated to the web and catalogs only, it's a shame because I like to be able to touch what I'm buying, especially with the lack of quality today. Sorry for the essay, it's just a subject that's been very frustrating to me lately. Unfortunately, until we as consumers move away from a throw-away society and demand quality from manufacturers, we'll continue to see cheap crap designed to minimal standards filling the shelves of the big box stores and driving the few companies who do care out of business.

November 12, 2008, 12:17 AM	#19
Smaug Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2004 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 3,210	Quality at a reasonable price is important. For me, it doesn't have to be the lowest price, but it has to be reasonable for what I'm getting. Another thing to keep in mind is that your customers must be able to TELL BEFORE BUYING that he will be getting a higher quality product. Convenience is another thing. I haven't ordered bullets from you yet, but I must say I really like the flat rate shipping option Meister has going. It is damned convenient. One thing you could do is compare your bullets' hardness against others. I don't want soft lead bullets. The less they lead my guns, the better. __________________ -Jeremy "Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength." - Eric Hoffer

November 12, 2008, 06:51 AM	#21
ShootingNut Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,475	Smaug From your post, it sounds like you may not have ever ordered lead from Mike at Mastercast? He ships USPS Flat Rate of $8.90 up to 70 pounds of lead. Is Meister any different? His lead is BHN20 hardness, and believe me leaves barely a trace in your barrel. At least that is my expierence with several calibers and guns. Not that it matters, but I see both you guys are in the "great state" of Illinois. Regards, SN

November 12, 2008, 11:34 AM	#22
Smaug Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2004 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 3,210	SN, you're right, I haven't bought from Mastercast yet. I don't know the hardness of Meister's alloy, so I can't really compare. Good to know he's in Illinois, that should mean quick shipping. __________________ -Jeremy "Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength." - Eric Hoffer

November 12, 2008, 11:36 AM	#23
Smaug Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2004 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 3,210	Just went to mastercast.com and found only a bunch of dumb golf emblems. Mike may want to ask to have his username changed to MASTERCAST.NET... Two more suggestions: 1) Gear up to accept internet orders. Lots of times, I place orders in the wee hours and don't feel comfortable leaving my CC info on a machine. Is it prohibitively expensive? 2) Carry a bigger variety of 44 cal bullets. At least a 185 gr. SWC or RNFP 3) Participate more here and on other fora, (the high road, etc.) and offer bullet & reloading advise that is not always self-serving. This is seen as excellent customer service I see he added the 380 bullets. Bravo! I'll be placing my next 380 order from him too. Prices seem good. If quality is also good, he may have a happy customer. Be patient. It takes time to build a reputation. __________________ -Jeremy "Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength." - Eric Hoffer Last edited by Smaug; November 12, 2008 at 11:45 AM.

November 12, 2008, 08:07 PM	#25
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	I believe the OP's site is www.mastercastbullets.com as posted by dixiedog. It is confusing that it's listed as mastercast.com in his post. I never mail order from companies that are in my home state (Texas) if I don't have to. Buying in-state means I pay sales tax and shipping. If I buy from out of state I only have to pay shipping. That usually winds up costing less in the long run. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.