Reading your breaks....

Dave McC · June 19, 2001, 11:58 AM

I got a question via E mail, so here goes. Lots of this is from Brister et al, I'm making no claim as to originating any of this, but I've found it helpful.

The question was," Besides patterning, how can I tell where my shot is going?"....

In any of the clay games, it's not enough to see the target bust, there's lessons there if one looks for them.

Watch the breaks. If your targets bust into itty bitty pieces each and every time, forget this, you need no assistance, but....

If a lot of your breaks result in three large pieces, with one left, one right and one straight up, figure that you're hitting with the very top of your pattern. If that big chunk goes down, you're hitting with the bottom of your shot.

If you regularly chip on one side, sending the big piece flying to either the right or left, your pattern is almost missing the clay, and you need to adjust something. Possibly that something is your builtin computer, right there under your hat.If your gun fits, and your form is OK, you need to change where you hold slightly.

On hard right and left angles, crossing shots,etc, are you breaking the front of the clay or the back? Rising shots can show whether you need to speed your swing a trifle or slow it down for that presentation.

When I got into this addiction to trap last winter and spring, I had a big problem with hard rights from posts 4&5. On an empty range, I persuaded the trapper to lock the trap down and 50 rounds from Post 5 later, I was hitting most of them. Still am.

Remember that each shot is a bit different, and we need to shoot a fairtomiddlin' amount to get an accurate indication where the shot strikes. IMO, we can just keep working on that presentation until the computer adjusts to correctthings and make that clay dust or those little pieces flying every which way.

Hope this helps some folks out there, good luck and good shooting....

BigG · June 19, 2001, 12:09 PM

Thanks, Dave, I've been having some problematic misses and need the help analyzing my computer (the one under my hat)

Ledbetter · June 19, 2001, 12:21 PM

Dave and all,

Since I got my bargain WalMart Rem 1100 (28"-- modified choke), I have been to the trap range once. To my surprise, I did worse than I had been doing with my Mossy 590A1 (20" bbl, cyl bore). I observed the different breaks as described by Dave, but had no idea what I was doing wrong.

Well, I got a skeet choke (larger pattern?) to try and now I know what to look for to see where I am hitting. I'll tape your post to the stock.

Regards.

Dave McC · June 19, 2001, 03:29 PM

You're very welcome, glad it helps someone.

Skeet will break birds at the 16 yard line,Led, most folks prefer more choke. I'm using a Full, but it's too much. What that tight pattern is doing is teaching me to hold closer, trading a few lost birds now for a little steeper learning curve. That's one way, opening the choke to get a larger pattern is another.

Note that using trap loads instead of cheaper "Field" style loads means a tighter pattern. Tighter tolerances, harder shot.IMO,the difference between using something like STS or AA Trap and the generic loads is greater than one notch on the choke contriction ladder.IOW soft shot and open chokes makes a great combo for quail, but a 50 MPH clay further out by 15 yards needs a little tighter pattern for best results.

For trap, I'd like hard shot going into a fairly tight choke.I want a 24" mass of lead with few flyers, and a hot center out there at 35-40 yards. A bit harder to fill a straight with, but a marvelous tool for learning to really control the shot, and that's what I'm after.

But, the nominal degree of choke is rarely on the money when it comes to patterns. I'd say, shoot with what works for you.A bit of patterning is in order, but you don't have to count all those little holes. Just see where the majority of shot lands to determine if the stock needs adjustment and that the most holes occur at point of aim, or slightly above it. My guess is that the Mossy stock fits you better,or you're just needing a bit more time to adapt to the 1100s' dimensions.

PJR · June 19, 2001, 07:28 PM

My experience in reading the breaks leads me to believe the vast majority of trap misses are shot over the bird. As Dave said, if when you break the bird the pieces go down you probably are too high. If there is a visible dust it most often results from pellets just skidding across the top of the target. Spending a little time downrange can be enlightening as you see the number of whole targets with pellet streaks across the top. (You will also see targets with up to three holes in them that didn't break but that's another story.)

I recently went through a case of the fits on straightaways. The solution was to shoot a little slower and a little lower and began crushing the targets.

Kingcreek · June 20, 2001, 06:09 AM

Dave, Good info as always.
It helps to have a spotter that can call your breaks for you. Our skeet range master is more coach than official and has been extremely helpful to the new shooters (me). If somebody is having a tough spot he will suspend the action or return to the scene later and launch repeat targets while smoothing out the shooters technique. BTW, One novice shooter was getting a few too many "just barely" hits and he recomended the guy step up his choke from I to M and miss more to shoot better. sounds familiar.

Dave McC · June 20, 2001, 07:59 AM

Thanks for the responses, guys.

Paul, after I ran my first straight last month, I "kicked it up a notch" as that loudmouth on the Food Channel would say.I tried to get on the bird faster and bust it closer to the house.

Surprisingly, it works most of the time, but straightaways need more time and a bit slower swing.So, I now read my target as soon as it comes out and have to adjust my speed depending on angle.

Kingcreek, great minds move in parallel paths(G).

Your Skeet Master sounds like a good'un. One minor peeve I have is the number of very good shotgunners that will walk big circles around a novice w/ problem at the range, instead of helping same. And sometimes the cure for a glitch is one simple,short sentence,like.....

Keep your head down on the stock.

Don't stop swinging, keep the bbl moving.

Put the butt in the same place every time.

How long does it take, and how little does it cost us, to say one of those above sentences?

How long does it take to take Explorer Post whatever aside at the range and give a very short seminar on Gun Mount 101?

Or to glance at a smallish female tyro struggling with a rental gun and suggest she get one with a shorter stock?

Or to skip one line and get a brand new shooter on track and breaking birds with satisfactory regularity?

(Dismounting from Soapbox)....

June 19, 2001, 11:58 AM	#1
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Reading your breaks.... I got a question via E mail, so here goes. Lots of this is from Brister et al, I'm making no claim as to originating any of this, but I've found it helpful. The question was," Besides patterning, how can I tell where my shot is going?".... In any of the clay games, it's not enough to see the target bust, there's lessons there if one looks for them. Watch the breaks. If your targets bust into itty bitty pieces each and every time, forget this, you need no assistance, but.... If a lot of your breaks result in three large pieces, with one left, one right and one straight up, figure that you're hitting with the very top of your pattern. If that big chunk goes down, you're hitting with the bottom of your shot. If you regularly chip on one side, sending the big piece flying to either the right or left, your pattern is almost missing the clay, and you need to adjust something. Possibly that something is your builtin computer, right there under your hat.If your gun fits, and your form is OK, you need to change where you hold slightly. On hard right and left angles, crossing shots,etc, are you breaking the front of the clay or the back? Rising shots can show whether you need to speed your swing a trifle or slow it down for that presentation. When I got into this addiction to trap last winter and spring, I had a big problem with hard rights from posts 4&5. On an empty range, I persuaded the trapper to lock the trap down and 50 rounds from Post 5 later, I was hitting most of them. Still am. Remember that each shot is a bit different, and we need to shoot a fairtomiddlin' amount to get an accurate indication where the shot strikes. IMO, we can just keep working on that presentation until the computer adjusts to correctthings and make that clay dust or those little pieces flying every which way. Hope this helps some folks out there, good luck and good shooting....

June 19, 2001, 12:09 PM	#2
BigG Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4,334	Thanks, Dave, I've been having some problematic misses and need the help analyzing my computer (the one under my hat) __________________ o "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC o "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain o "They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" Paul Harvey o TODAY WE CARVE OUT OUR OWN OMENS! Leonidas, Thermopylae, 480 BC

June 19, 2001, 12:21 PM	#3
Ledbetter Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2000 Location: California USA Posts: 4,533	Thanks. Valuable info as always. Dave and all, Since I got my bargain WalMart Rem 1100 (28"-- modified choke), I have been to the trap range once. To my surprise, I did worse than I had been doing with my Mossy 590A1 (20" bbl, cyl bore). I observed the different breaks as described by Dave, but had no idea what I was doing wrong. Well, I got a skeet choke (larger pattern?) to try and now I know what to look for to see where I am hitting. I'll tape your post to the stock. Regards. Last edited by Ledbetter; June 20, 2001 at 01:02 PM.

June 19, 2001, 03:29 PM	#4
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	You're very welcome, glad it helps someone. Skeet will break birds at the 16 yard line,Led, most folks prefer more choke. I'm using a Full, but it's too much. What that tight pattern is doing is teaching me to hold closer, trading a few lost birds now for a little steeper learning curve. That's one way, opening the choke to get a larger pattern is another. Note that using trap loads instead of cheaper "Field" style loads means a tighter pattern. Tighter tolerances, harder shot.IMO,the difference between using something like STS or AA Trap and the generic loads is greater than one notch on the choke contriction ladder.IOW soft shot and open chokes makes a great combo for quail, but a 50 MPH clay further out by 15 yards needs a little tighter pattern for best results. For trap, I'd like hard shot going into a fairly tight choke.I want a 24" mass of lead with few flyers, and a hot center out there at 35-40 yards. A bit harder to fill a straight with, but a marvelous tool for learning to really control the shot, and that's what I'm after. But, the nominal degree of choke is rarely on the money when it comes to patterns. I'd say, shoot with what works for you.A bit of patterning is in order, but you don't have to count all those little holes. Just see where the majority of shot lands to determine if the stock needs adjustment and that the most holes occur at point of aim, or slightly above it. My guess is that the Mossy stock fits you better,or you're just needing a bit more time to adapt to the 1100s' dimensions.

June 19, 2001, 07:28 PM	#5
PJR Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2000 Posts: 1,127	My experience in reading the breaks leads me to believe the vast majority of trap misses are shot over the bird. As Dave said, if when you break the bird the pieces go down you probably are too high. If there is a visible dust it most often results from pellets just skidding across the top of the target. Spending a little time downrange can be enlightening as you see the number of whole targets with pellet streaks across the top. (You will also see targets with up to three holes in them that didn't break but that's another story.) I recently went through a case of the fits on straightaways. The solution was to shoot a little slower and a little lower and began crushing the targets.

June 20, 2001, 06:09 AM	#6
Kingcreek Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: rural Illinois Posts: 590	Dave, Good info as always. It helps to have a spotter that can call your breaks for you. Our skeet range master is more coach than official and has been extremely helpful to the new shooters (me). If somebody is having a tough spot he will suspend the action or return to the scene later and launch repeat targets while smoothing out the shooters technique. BTW, One novice shooter was getting a few too many "just barely" hits and he recomended the guy step up his choke from I to M and miss more to shoot better. sounds familiar.

June 20, 2001, 07:59 AM	#7
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Thanks for the responses, guys. Paul, after I ran my first straight last month, I "kicked it up a notch" as that loudmouth on the Food Channel would say.I tried to get on the bird faster and bust it closer to the house. Surprisingly, it works most of the time, but straightaways need more time and a bit slower swing.So, I now read my target as soon as it comes out and have to adjust my speed depending on angle. Kingcreek, great minds move in parallel paths(G). Your Skeet Master sounds like a good'un. One minor peeve I have is the number of very good shotgunners that will walk big circles around a novice w/ problem at the range, instead of helping same. And sometimes the cure for a glitch is one simple,short sentence,like..... Keep your head down on the stock. Don't stop swinging, keep the bbl moving. Put the butt in the same place every time. How long does it take, and how little does it cost us, to say one of those above sentences? How long does it take to take Explorer Post whatever aside at the range and give a very short seminar on Gun Mount 101? Or to glance at a smallish female tyro struggling with a rental gun and suggest she get one with a shorter stock? Or to skip one line and get a brand new shooter on track and breaking birds with satisfactory regularity? (Dismounting from Soapbox)....