Brief review of the Walther CCP

Theohazard · December 18, 2014, 02:07 PM

I got a brief chance to handle and shoot a Walther CCP yesterday, and I figured I'd share my impressions of it.

The first thing I saw was that it required a tool to field-strip the gun, which seems like an annoying feature in a utilitarian carry gun. I know it's a different design than most other guns on the market, but the P7 uses a similar recoil system and it breaks down without a tool.

I also didn't like the fact that it had a safety, but the safety itself was at least a decent one; not too big but not so small that it was difficult to operate. I just ignored the safety when I was shooting and left it off, so it wasn't even something I noticed until after I was done shooting.

As for the shooting part, the gas-retarded blowback system really does reduce felt recoil. The muzzle flip was minimal and I was able to get back on target very quickly. But fast follow-up shots were made more difficult by the trigger. The pull wasn't so bad -- it was just long -- but the reset was terrible. I had to let the trigger out pretty much all the way for it to reset. That's something that doesn't make sense to me; unless the pistol's design necessitates it (a revolver or a true DAO semi-auto), why make the reset longer than it needs to be? With striker-fired guns I'm used to short-resetting triggers like on a Glock or an XD, so the trigger on the CCP was really disappointing.

Another thing we noticed after the shooting was over and we were just messing around with the gun: It actually has a false reset if you do it just right. A friend was dry-firing the gun and checking the reset, and he noticed that if you let the trigger out most of the way and then press it when you feel a slight click, nothing will happen and the striker won't fall. But, unlike some other guns with a false reset, there's no resistance at all and the trigger is just dead; even if you then let the trigger out all the way, nothing happens. In this case you've essentially caused a malfunction and the only way to reset the trigger is to re-cock the striker by manipulating the slide. This didn't happen when I was shooting it, but it could have if I had pressed the trigger again at the wrong time in the reset process.

My overall impression of the gun is mixed. I was only shooting at about 5 yards, but it was still easy to be accurate with this gun. It pointed well and recoil was minimal. But the annoyingly long reset made accurate rapid-fire more difficult. It was also annoying that you need a tool to field-strip the gun. Also, the fact that this gun had a false reset that could potentially decock the striker without firing the gun was a pretty big downside.

Overall, I wouldn't buy this gun as it is now. It's a cool design, but its flaws outweigh any cool factor in my opinion.

PSP · December 18, 2014, 03:05 PM

Thanks for the report... been waiting for news.

Sgt Pepper · December 18, 2014, 05:30 PM

Looks like I'll stick with my PPS, which I absolutely LOVE for concealed carry. The P7-like piston system was intriguing, but the recoil is not a relevant issue for me with the PPS.

sigarms228 · December 18, 2014, 05:33 PM

Glad I have no problem concealing my PPQ.

Thanks for your report on the CCP.

Fishbed77 · December 19, 2014, 11:09 AM

Nothing here surprises me since this is an Umarex gun and not a real Walther.

Umarex should have stuck to manufacturing airsoft toys.

Sigowner · December 19, 2014, 03:06 PM

I figured out the secret sauce for disassembling and reassemble but it took a while. For those who might have just purchased or looking to purchase.....that rear "plunger" or "release" must be depressed approx. 1/2" before the internal horizontal bar clears the notched latch. Same holds for reassembly. Also, the gas pin under the recoil spring is a little difficult to align to fit into the gas chamber and allow the slide to fully seat to the frame.

Sigowner · December 19, 2014, 05:05 PM

I assume if the CCP is stamped Ulm/Do that it is in fact manufactured by Walther and not Umarex.....can anyone confirm that? My understanding also is that Umarex manufactures in Arnsberg.

Fishbed77 · December 20, 2014, 02:37 AM

Quote:

I assume if the CCP is stamped Ulm/Do that it is in fact manufactured by Walther and not Umarex.....can anyone confirm that? My understanding also is that Umarex manufactures in Arnsberg.

No. Many Umarex-produced firearms have "Walther/Ulm" or "Carl Walther Ulm/Do" or something to that affect printed on them. This means nothing, since Umarex owns Walther and can print anything they like on the pistols for marketing purposes.

The CCP is manufactured by Umarex in Arnsberg. The "shield with three crown" proofmark of the Cologne proof house (Arnsberg is a suburb of Cologne) on the CCP proves this. All firearms produced by Walther in Ulm (such as the P99, PPQ, PPX, and PPS) carry the Ulm "staghorn" proofmark.

Anyway, if you need more proof (than the proofmarks!) in this thread at waltherforums.com a Walther employee confirms the CCP is made by Umarex at Arnsberg:

http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/c...er-ccp-10.html

.

PSP · December 20, 2014, 07:39 AM

It appears that Umarex has greatly improved their ability to make nice guns. This is good. The two that I own now are very nice .22s. Can't wait to fondle a CCP.

Fishbed77 · December 20, 2014, 09:45 AM

This remains to be seen. Close ups of the CCP next to a PPS show a distinct lack of finish compared to the Ulm-manufactured gun.

Sigowner · December 20, 2014, 10:08 AM

Since my CCP is new and still not fired the finish looks very good. Disassembly proved the finish quality continued internally but we (I) will soon find out just how durable the finish really is.

Thanks for the url which was very enlightening re the manufacturing site and responsible division. Now I need to check the stamp icon.....and mine has no icon??

CORRECTION:
Just located the proof stamp and it is indeed the Cologne icon (shield with 3 crowns). I believe that confirms the CCP is manufactured by Umarex.

Pilot · December 24, 2014, 06:29 AM

I like the concept as I own, and have owned P7's for many years, and like the gas retarded blowback system. However, I have never been impressed with anything coming form Umarex/Arnsberg. I'd like to see one in person, and shoot one before making any further comments. Nice report. Thanks.

Ricklin · December 24, 2014, 06:37 AM

If the false reset experienced by the OP is not a flaw only to his particular sample............no deal.

I do own a Walther/Umarex G22. It's one of the most fun guns I own. It always gets a workout if it goes to the range.

Sigowner · December 24, 2014, 10:02 AM

Another thing we noticed after the shooting was over and we were just messing around with the gun: It actually has a false reset if you do it just right. A friend was dry-firing the gun and checking the reset, and he noticed that if you let the trigger out most of the way and then press it when you feel a slight click, nothing will happen and the striker won't fall. But, unlike some other guns with a false reset, there's no resistance at all and the trigger is just dead; even if you then let the trigger out all the way, nothing happens. In this case you've essentially caused a malfunction and the only way to reset the trigger is to re-cock the striker by manipulating the slide. This didn't happen when I was shooting it, but it could have if I had pressed the trigger again at the wrong time in the reset process.

I'm a bit confused by the above comment. Unless the slide is activated after trigger release there's no cocking/reset of striker to permit a follow-on "shot". Why would you expect the trigger release to do anything after being pulled in a dry-fire procedure?

Theohazard · December 24, 2014, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sigowner

I'm a bit confused by the above comment. Unless the slide is activated after trigger release there's no cocking/reset of striker to permit a follow-on "shot". Why would you expect the trigger release to do anything after being pulled in a dry-fire procedure?

I wrote that we were "checking the reset", and the proper way to do that is to press the trigger until it breaks, keep it held while racking the slide, then let out on the trigger. I didn't mention the details of the procedure because I didn't think it was necessary to explain it.

And yeah, I do hope that the false reset that deactivated the striker was just a flaw with the rep's sample we were shooting.

Sigowner · December 24, 2014, 11:59 AM

Wanted to be certain I duplicated what you had done.

Just tested following your description and whether I held the trigger full back until completing the rack or releasing the trigger while racking I could not duplicate the reset failure.

Theohazard · December 24, 2014, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sigowner

whether I held the trigger full back until completing the rack or releasing the trigger while racking I could not duplicate the reset failure.

Releasing the trigger while racking the slide is pointless considering that will never happen when you're actually shooting it. The only way to do it is to finish racking the slide before you start releasing the trigger.

And the false reset we noticed was when you release the trigger partway -- not fully -- and then try to press it again. If you do it at exactly the right spot, that's when the trigger will be deactivated.

But, like I said, that could have just been a flaw with the sample we were shooting.

Sigowner · December 24, 2014, 12:54 PM

OK, a partial trigger release will not allow the CCP to fire but the CCP does not have a SRT so it must be fully released. In that case it fire every time....at least mine does.

Theohazard · December 24, 2014, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sigowner

OK, a partial trigger release will not allow the CCP to fire but the CCP does not have a SRT so it must be fully released.

I think you're missing my point. My point is that a partial trigger release can make the trigger go dead entirely. In that case if you then let it out all the way and try to press it again nothing happens. That was a mechanical flaw in the CCP I was using; that should never happen in any gun, period.

Sigowner · December 24, 2014, 03:23 PM

You are correct....the fact that you followed the partial by allowing the trigger to travel full forward is something I was not comprehending. My CCP returns to a "cocked" condition no matter what....even after the partial/gradual release forward as long as the trigger extends full forward again. Definitely sounds like that weapon had a flaw.

Theohazard · February 10, 2015, 03:16 AM

This thread was based on a demo CCP that was brought to our shop by a Walther rep. Now that I've gotten a chance to handle a few regular production CCPs, I can say that none of them have had the same dead-trigger false reset issue that I experienced on the demo model.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sigowner

Definitely sounds like that weapon had a flaw.

It seems like Sigowner was right; it was probably just that pre-production demo gun that had a flaw.

**4V50 Gary** · February 11, 2015, 05:42 PM

thanks for the update. I'm thinking of one for a relative who has difficulty pulling the slide back on even a Glock.

Bart Noir · February 12, 2015, 11:07 AM

I have been keeping an eye on this Walther since I intend to live deep into actual geezerhood and have seen how a man's strength can leave his hands, in his later years. So the less-than-heavy recoil spring seems like a good idea.

Or I could end up as a revolver-only guy.

So I appreciate learning that the triggers are not as bad as some people noted. I just have to get into Theo's shop and see one, finally.

Bart Noir

December 18, 2014, 02:07 PM	#1
Theohazard Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2012 Location: Western PA Posts: 3,829	Brief review of the Walther CCP I got a brief chance to handle and shoot a Walther CCP yesterday, and I figured I'd share my impressions of it. The first thing I saw was that it required a tool to field-strip the gun, which seems like an annoying feature in a utilitarian carry gun. I know it's a different design than most other guns on the market, but the P7 uses a similar recoil system and it breaks down without a tool. I also didn't like the fact that it had a safety, but the safety itself was at least a decent one; not too big but not so small that it was difficult to operate. I just ignored the safety when I was shooting and left it off, so it wasn't even something I noticed until after I was done shooting. As for the shooting part, the gas-retarded blowback system really does reduce felt recoil. The muzzle flip was minimal and I was able to get back on target very quickly. But fast follow-up shots were made more difficult by the trigger. The pull wasn't so bad -- it was just long -- but the reset was terrible. I had to let the trigger out pretty much all the way for it to reset. That's something that doesn't make sense to me; unless the pistol's design necessitates it (a revolver or a true DAO semi-auto), why make the reset longer than it needs to be? With striker-fired guns I'm used to short-resetting triggers like on a Glock or an XD, so the trigger on the CCP was really disappointing. Another thing we noticed after the shooting was over and we were just messing around with the gun: It actually has a false reset if you do it just right. A friend was dry-firing the gun and checking the reset, and he noticed that if you let the trigger out most of the way and then press it when you feel a slight click, nothing will happen and the striker won't fall. But, unlike some other guns with a false reset, there's no resistance at all and the trigger is just dead; even if you then let the trigger out all the way, nothing happens. In this case you've essentially caused a malfunction and the only way to reset the trigger is to re-cock the striker by manipulating the slide. This didn't happen when I was shooting it, but it could have if I had pressed the trigger again at the wrong time in the reset process. My overall impression of the gun is mixed. I was only shooting at about 5 yards, but it was still easy to be accurate with this gun. It pointed well and recoil was minimal. But the annoyingly long reset made accurate rapid-fire more difficult. It was also annoying that you need a tool to field-strip the gun. Also, the fact that this gun had a false reset that could potentially decock the striker without firing the gun was a pretty big downside. Overall, I wouldn't buy this gun as it is now. It's a cool design, but its flaws outweigh any cool factor in my opinion. __________________ 0331: "Accuracy by volume."

December 20, 2014, 10:08 AM	#11
Sigowner Member Join Date: March 27, 2012 Posts: 77	Since my CCP is new and still not fired the finish looks very good. Disassembly proved the finish quality continued internally but we (I) will soon find out just how durable the finish really is. Thanks for the url which was very enlightening re the manufacturing site and responsible division. Now I need to check the stamp icon.....and mine has no icon?? CORRECTION: Just located the proof stamp and it is indeed the Cologne icon (shield with 3 crowns). I believe that confirms the CCP is manufactured by Umarex. Last edited by Sigowner; December 20, 2014 at 12:12 PM.

December 24, 2014, 06:29 AM	#12
Pilot Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2000 Posts: 4,193	I like the concept as I own, and have owned P7's for many years, and like the gas retarded blowback system. However, I have never been impressed with anything coming form Umarex/Arnsberg. I'd like to see one in person, and shoot one before making any further comments. Nice report. Thanks. __________________ Pilot

December 24, 2014, 06:37 AM	#13
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,011	Deal Breaker If the false reset experienced by the OP is not a flaw only to his particular sample............no deal. I do own a Walther/Umarex G22. It's one of the most fun guns I own. It always gets a workout if it goes to the range. __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free

December 24, 2014, 11:59 AM	#16
Sigowner Member Join Date: March 27, 2012 Posts: 77	Wanted to be certain I duplicated what you had done. Just tested following your description and whether I held the trigger full back until completing the rack or releasing the trigger while racking I could not duplicate the reset failure. Last edited by Sigowner; December 24, 2014 at 12:19 PM.

December 18, 2014, 03:05 PM	#2
PSP Senior Member Join Date: June 2, 2006 Location: Bowling Green Virginia Posts: 4,487	Thanks for the report... been waiting for news.

December 18, 2014, 05:30 PM	#3
Sgt Pepper Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2001 Location: Texas Posts: 811	Looks like I'll stick with my PPS, which I absolutely LOVE for concealed carry. The P7-like piston system was intriguing, but the recoil is not a relevant issue for me with the PPS.

December 18, 2014, 05:33 PM	#4
sigarms228 Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 2011 Posts: 1,768	Glad I have no problem concealing my PPQ. Thanks for your report on the CCP.

December 19, 2014, 11:09 AM	#5
Fishbed77 Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2010 Posts: 4,862	Nothing here surprises me since this is an Umarex gun and not a real Walther. Umarex should have stuck to manufacturing airsoft toys.

December 19, 2014, 03:06 PM	#6
Sigowner Member Join Date: March 27, 2012 Posts: 77	I figured out the secret sauce for disassembling and reassemble but it took a while. For those who might have just purchased or looking to purchase.....that rear "plunger" or "release" must be depressed approx. 1/2" before the internal horizontal bar clears the notched latch. Same holds for reassembly. Also, the gas pin under the recoil spring is a little difficult to align to fit into the gas chamber and allow the slide to fully seat to the frame.

December 19, 2014, 05:05 PM	#7
Sigowner Member Join Date: March 27, 2012 Posts: 77	I assume if the CCP is stamped Ulm/Do that it is in fact manufactured by Walther and not Umarex.....can anyone confirm that? My understanding also is that Umarex manufactures in Arnsberg.

December 20, 2014, 07:39 AM	#9
PSP Senior Member Join Date: June 2, 2006 Location: Bowling Green Virginia Posts: 4,487	It appears that Umarex has greatly improved their ability to make nice guns. This is good. The two that I own now are very nice .22s. Can't wait to fondle a CCP.

December 20, 2014, 09:45 AM	#10
Fishbed77 Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2010 Posts: 4,862	This remains to be seen. Close ups of the CCP next to a PPS show a distinct lack of finish compared to the Ulm-manufactured gun.

December 24, 2014, 10:02 AM	#14
Sigowner Member Join Date: March 27, 2012 Posts: 77	Another thing we noticed after the shooting was over and we were just messing around with the gun: It actually has a false reset if you do it just right. A friend was dry-firing the gun and checking the reset, and he noticed that if you let the trigger out most of the way and then press it when you feel a slight click, nothing will happen and the striker won't fall. But, unlike some other guns with a false reset, there's no resistance at all and the trigger is just dead; even if you then let the trigger out all the way, nothing happens. In this case you've essentially caused a malfunction and the only way to reset the trigger is to re-cock the striker by manipulating the slide. This didn't happen when I was shooting it, but it could have if I had pressed the trigger again at the wrong time in the reset process. I'm a bit confused by the above comment. Unless the slide is activated after trigger release there's no cocking/reset of striker to permit a follow-on "shot". Why would you expect the trigger release to do anything after being pulled in a dry-fire procedure?

December 24, 2014, 12:54 PM	#18
Sigowner Member Join Date: March 27, 2012 Posts: 77	OK, a partial trigger release will not allow the CCP to fire but the CCP does not have a SRT so it must be fully released. In that case it fire every time....at least mine does.

December 24, 2014, 03:23 PM	#20
Sigowner Member Join Date: March 27, 2012 Posts: 77	You are correct....the fact that you followed the partial by allowing the trigger to travel full forward is something I was not comprehending. My CCP returns to a "cocked" condition no matter what....even after the partial/gradual release forward as long as the trigger extends full forward again. Definitely sounds like that weapon had a flaw.

February 11, 2015, 05:42 PM	#22
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	thanks for the update. I'm thinking of one for a relative who has difficulty pulling the slide back on even a Glock. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

February 12, 2015, 11:07 AM	#23
Bart Noir Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2000 Location: Puget Sound, USA Posts: 2,215	I have been keeping an eye on this Walther since I intend to live deep into actual geezerhood and have seen how a man's strength can leave his hands, in his later years. So the less-than-heavy recoil spring seems like a good idea. Or I could end up as a revolver-only guy. So I appreciate learning that the triggers are not as bad as some people noted. I just have to get into Theo's shop and see one, finally. Bart Noir __________________ Be of good cheer and mindful of your gun muzzle!