Reloading questions

[chris in va]

I don't have a reloader, but after seeing the price of 45 at WalMart today, I may have no choice as I can't afford to feed my Sig 220 anymore. Even 9mm is $20/100.

I was looking to get a Lee Handloader kit and some dies. Question, how do you guys get the cheap powder, bullets, primers and other loading supplies? By the time shipping is factored in, I don't see any real savings to be honest.

[Loader9]

You can generally pick up range brass for nothing to get started. Attempt to find once fired brass or at least looks like it's once fired. Primers and powder, unless you are buying a lot, get them locally. Avoid paying Haz Mat fees which makes powder deals bad. Bullets can be gotten fairly cheap online but you have to be ready to buy when the specials hit the net. The specials don't last long. Get on emailing lists with Natchez, Midway, etc so you don't miss the specials. And when a deal comes around, buy a lot. Bullets don't go bad. I've got 30 caliber bullets 147gr FMJ that I paid only 36.00 a thousand for. Those are several years old along with thousands of 55 gr FMJ that I paid $18.00 a thousand for. I've loaded up over the years and could make a bundle selling what I have at todays prices. If the price does come down, you can still shoot them. Look at Rainier, Berrys, and other plated bullets for practice shooting. They cut the cost of the bullet and they also won't lead up the barrel or get lube all over everything like lead....unless you just like having to use elbow grease to clean your pistols. If the cleaning doesn't bother you, look at lead bullets but if you are chemical sensitive like me, avoid lead bullets. Lead poisoning is not fun and just handling them can do it, it did it to me. But get yourself a Lee Press and start rolling yer own.

[Shoney]

Chris in Va
If you buy in small lots (1000 primers), and up to 5-8 lbs powder, you are better off buying loacaly.

You must buy in 5K lot of primers and 16-20# powder. Some of the companies ship their primers and powder from different locations and you will pay the $20 Hazmat on both, so be careful. Last time I ordered several years ago. I got 50K mixed sizes of primers at around $10/K.

If you can get others for a group buy, it is better.

try

http://powdervalleyinc.com/
http://www.gibrass.com/gunpowder.html
http://www.patsreloading.com/patsrel/prices.htm
http://www.hi-techammo.com/
http://armsandammo.com/default.cfm

[Remow2112]

Reloading stuff isn't as prevalent as it was once but gun shows are a great place to get brass, powder, and bullets to start.

Just a note from my personnel experience. If you want to load a good amount at a time (say 500 plus rounds.) get a progressive.

If I can help with more info let me know.

Dan...

[Shane Tuttle]

I was looking to get a Lee Handloader kit and some dies.

The Lee Anniversary Kit is a good starter to get. If you end up changing your mind about reloading in the future, you won't be out as much cash and can recoup some of your money even if you sell cheap.

Be sure to take into consideration of how much time it takes to invest in learning and performing reloading processes. My recommendation is if you are in it mainly for the money savings and not so much as making it an enjoyable hobby, I'd sadly say DON'T DO IT. If boredom/frustration sets in, the safety factor can easily be compromised. I know you didn't ask this and it's off-topic. However, I want to make sure that anyone getting into reloading from scratch is educated on this issue. I feel it is very important to know and I don't think I would be fair for me to stand silent for either party.

Question, how do you guys get the cheap powder, bullets, primers and other loading supplies? By the time shipping is factored in, I don't see any real savings to be honest.

If you really like the reloading process and after you've been doing it for a while, I'd look into casting your own bullets. I'm in the process of considering it for myself. It would save a bundle, especially if you get your lead for free (tire shops) and partner up on casting. But, it is a whole other process along with reloading.

If you get your C&R license, you can save quite a bit on buying from companies. It's $30 and is good for 3 years.

[Sevens]

It's all about buying in volume. It's really no different than buying, well, ANYTHING. The more of it you buy at one time in bulk, the cheaper you can get it for.

Powder-- at gun stores and shows, you can expect to pay around $22-$25 a pound for it. Even buying one pound at a time, you'll save a heap over the cost of most factory ammo. 9mm is the toughest to beat, because it's the cheapest factory ammo out there.

Primers-- prices are volatile right now, I expect to see $30 to $40 for a thousand.

Bullets-- the choices by weight, style, make, manufacturer and caliber run a WIDE gamut, so it's impossible to break it down in a quick post. Suffice to say that the bullet is by far the largest cost of the loaded round. If you are talking rifle bullets, then you get what you pay for in quality, performance and accuracy, and they are expensive. In handgun calibers, you have a lot more options.

No doubt that hazmat and shipping fees eat in to the savings associated with ordering primers and powder online.

As for saving money by reloading-- nobody does, and anyone that says they do is lying. The reality is that your cost per loaded round drops significantly, but you end up shooting a LOT more. Most of us also end up with a grand hobby that's as fun/more fun than shooting. (for me and some others, we admittedly enjoy it more than the actual shooting) Also, you spend a lot of money on equipment and tools and goodies you might not otherwise need.

There's no money savings in here. You end up with more ammo, and ammo that you appreciate a lot more. You will absolutely spend more money.

If you want to spend less money for your ammo, buy loaded ammo or remanufactured ammo in bulk.

[Doc K]

I started reloading 45 ACP only 2 months ago and this is how I have done it.
I’m learning on a progressive press and casting my own bullets.
I’m going super slowly. I have read the ABC’s and Lee books.
My mentors are my books, Internet forums, my local reloading store, and manufacturer’s tech support. I pay the local shop for their advice by buying 95% of my stuff from them.
I have a notebook of all my owner manuals and information from the internet. I log my costs and all my sessions.
I set up my press on a bench from Sam’s Club. I mounted the press at standing-height.
My stations:
#1. Size/deprime
(Prime on upstroke)
#2. Bell case and charge with powder-through expander
#3. RCBS Lock-Out Die
#4. Seating die
#5. Taper Crimp
I have run many single cartridges through the stations to get know and understand the procedure. 25 cartridges are the most that I have done progressively at any one time. My total output is up to an astonishing 250 rounds!
I cast 200gr SWC boolits in a 6 bullet Lee Tumble Lube mold. Unfortunately, I have to size them (.452 Lee Sizer) to be able to chamber them in my gun. My first alloy is 2/3 WW, 1/3 Stick-on weights with 2% tin added.
I lube with Lee Liquid Alox. IMHO - LLA is NOT messy. I use a plastic wide-mouth jug, warm bullets, and nitrile gloves. I let them dry on wax paper for several days. (real men don't use baby powder)
I use Winchester primers and their 231 powder. I have never gone near max. loads. (Might not ever go there)

Results and Conclusions:
I’m having a blast.
Theoretically, I should come close to recouping costs after about 4000 rounds. (I have shot over 5000 rounds this year)
The bullets have made it to the target with every trigger pull.
No squibs, KABOOMS, FTFs or FTEs. (During this time I have had one FTE on a factory cartridge.)
Light loads let me really feel the gun’s firing cycle.
The barrel soots up quite a lot, but this cleans out easily.
Lee Alox stinks.
Best for last…
No leading at all!!

[Sam06]

Good post Doc K. Reloading is all about having fun and enjoying the shooting sports. Cost should not drive the train but for some it does. I think everyone starts out to save money and realizes the benefits of reloading are many. Accuracy is the big one and tuning a load to the gun and target is the other. The good news is you will save money in the LONG RUN. It will not happen over night but over the long run.

For a beginning Newbie loader I would not recommend a Progressive loader but they have simplified them now and they are very accurate. If you take your time and study up on them I think they are a viable option to the beginner. I will give one piece of advice to anyone getting into reloading; Don't think Cheap. What I mean by that is think in the long run and the service life of the equipment. Get the best you can afford to get and it will keep you from "Upgrading" your reloading equipment. For a single stage press the RCBS Rockchucker is a great starter press and their kit with all the stuff you need is a good deal. If you are looking at a Turret Press I would say the Redding T7 is the way to go. On a Progressive the Dillon 550B or LNL are good presses and will last a lifetime.

Components are another matter. Good advice above. Buy in Bulk for bullets and locally for Powders and Primers. If you can join a club you will get discounts on Batch orders of primers and powders. If you are getting powders in 1# cans get them locally till you find the powder that works. Stored properly the components will last a long time.

[Shane Tuttle]

As for saving money by reloading-- nobody does, and anyone that says they do is lying.

Then I guess I'm the biggest liar on the planet becsause I definitely disagree with your statement.

The reality is that your cost per loaded round drops significantly, but you end up shooting a LOT more.

Yes, this can be the case. But, you're adding in additional parameters that are of the will of the shooter, not the objective cost of actual reloading.

Kinda like gas prices: $4.00/gal gas made drive to work expensive. Now, at $1.45/gal, it's cheaper to drive to work. Of course I won't be spending less on gas if I drive around town like a social butterfly, but that is adding in an equation that can be controlled.

[reload4fun]

Buy ammunition in bulk for semi autos unless you like shooting with a basket hanging on the side of your gun or spending hours bent over. Reloading is great for revolvers and bolt actions but to me, shagging brass is more work than it is worth. Just my opinion, you may be in better shape than me.
Does anyone know of a machine that will pick up and sort brass automatically that any joe could afford?

[Shane Tuttle]

Does anyone know of a machine that will pick up and sort brass automatically that any joe could afford?

Yep.....KIDS! You're already paying for rearing them. Might as well get them to start the payback.

Also, if I'm at the indoor range, they have brooms and duspans. No biggie.

If outside, we lay a blanket down that, IIRC, got from Midway. It's a large, yet light, blanket with weights sewn in the corners. Works great for us.

[madmo44mag]

Many good points have been made here.
You may also want to check the bulletin board at your local range and dealers.
You mat find someone wanting to upgrade or get out of loading and find a good deal with all the goodies.
That how one of my buddies got started. He got a RCBS progressive press, all dies, shell plates, scales, powder measures, etc, for under $300.00
The guy threw in all his old brass for $50.00. None of it was in a cal. he shot but he sold the brass for $125.00 in scrap.
If you go new, stay with the old but BIG Dogs in the industry.
RCBS, Hornaday,Dillon or Redding. Lee is ok and has come a long way since I bought my first press (Lee Progressive) but in 2 years I had worn the thing out.
Just to light weight for a serious hand loader.
I have had my Hornaday for over 15 years with no problem what so every.
I have loaded 1000's of rounds from 380 too 7mag.
And yes, I love to load almost as much as I love to shoot or maybe the other way around. LOL!!!!
Goor luck and shoot save!!!!

[benzuncle]

Chris, I began almost a year ago; the Warden (wife of 36yrs.) put a gun magazine in my Christmas stocking. There was this article about reloading. Oh Oh! After lurking up the wazoo, gleaning everything I could about the different makes, models and prices, I decided on a Lee Classic Turret Press. This is in bewtween a single-stage loader and a full-tilt boogie progressive press. It can load up to 200 rounds of 45acp per hour. If you choose to reload, understand that it will probably become another hobby. My initial cost was around $330. That included the press, carbide 45acp dies, Pro Auto Disk powder measure, safety prime system (both upgrades), calipers, kinetic bullet puller, Lee beam scale and tumbler. That's pretty much everything needed. The Lee Classic Turret Press can be used single-stage if you choose. There are videos on You Tube and the Lee Precision website on how it works. Almost 1 year later and all I've added (contrary to some of the experts) is another turret and dies to load 380's ($40) and a $25 digital scale. What the digital scale did was tell me the Lee Scale works just fine. I bought my 6ft tall bench/shelf system at COSTCO for $75; this stores everything I need to reload including my tumbler which stores in a 5gal. covered bucket on the top shelf. I bought the 4ft fluorescent light at Home Depot for $25. The Lee Classic Turret Press is available in kit form from Midway, Cabela's, Graf's, Kempf Gun Shop and others. I bought mine from Kempf because they had everything I wanted at the moment I wanted it. www.kempfgunshop.com. I am way pleased with this setup. All for the cost of one handgun!

As for where to buy the "fixin's": I usually buy my lead bullets, primers and powder from Space Coast Bullets, as they come to the gun show in town and I don't have to pay the haz-mat fee. As for the brass, I have no problem whoring around at the range. I ask anyone that is shooting 45 and 380 if they reload. If they answer in the negative, I ask them if I can have their brass. I've made a "reacher" out of 2 radio antennas that can drag my brass back to me. I will be trying Montana Gold Bullet for my brass jacketed rounds in the near future. I also load 230gr Remington Golden Sabers. Good Luck in your research and purchase. Let us know how you make out. Happy New Year!

[chris in va]

Thanks for all the advice, maybe I need to nix the reloading idea. Spending hundreds of $$$ on reloading equipment is not what I had in mind to save a few bucks per hundred rounds. I just figured maybe I could sit in my living room with a hand press and reload some 45 but it sounds a little too complicated.

IIRC Knob Creek doesn't allow brass scrounging, so that idea is out.

[Sevens]

Quote:
As for saving money by reloading-- nobody does, and anyone that says they do is lying.

Then I guess I'm the biggest liar on the planet becsause I definitely disagree with your statement.

Allright, I'll give you a pass!
The point I'm trying to make, and I will stand by it's validity, is this:
--you spend some dough to just get the very basics. Even the most frugal (if buying new) is going to drop at least a hundo for the hardware. If you need/want speedy progressive, you can change that number to FIVE hundred or more.
--you spend more dough just to make the FIRST loaded, shootable round, and we buy powder by the pound at the smallest. As I mentioned, the cheapest prices come from buying in bulk, so anyone can see how a large sum needs to be expended just to get some components to begin.
--just about anyone/everyone who has ever gotten in to reloading has soon found that they need at least a couple more pieces of hardware... dial caliper, trimming tools, tumbler, bullet puller... you'd have to be psychic to know ahead of time every last little tool you'd want or need. This is another expenditure and for most of us, we are never finished buying more tools.

...and this is just ONE caliber! If you start another caliber (most of us do) it's more dies, a different powder, likely a different stock of bullets, too.

I'm not trying to argue against reloading (I LOVE it)
I just think it's really misleading to new folks to tell them how cheaply we make a box of our reloads, and lead them to believe that they can run out, buy a few things, and a day later they are churning out 9mm at $4 for box of 50 rounds. That's a mile from the reality of it.

And the other point I'm trying to make is that YES, most of us tend to shoot more when we have 10 boxes of loaded ammo in one caliber sitting on the shelf than we otherwise would if we swung by the gun store en route to the range and we dropped $50 for 3 or 4 boxes of ammo.

This is a good thing, we shoot more, we enjoy shooting more, we get better at it because we shoot more, we reload more so we get better at reloading, too. It's all good. But you would be absolutely in the minority if you actually spend less money as a full-bore reloader and shooter than you would if you bought factory ammo. The most obvious exception would be if you are a hardcore competition pistol shooter that blows through hundreds/thousands of rounds a week or month.

I say my point is quite valid.
Now, back to splitting hairs.

[Shane Tuttle]

I'm not trying to argue against reloading (I LOVE it)
I just think it's really misleading to new folks to tell them how cheaply we make a box of our reloads, and lead them to believe that they can run out, buy a few things, and a day later they are churning out 9mm at $4 for box of 50 rounds. That's a mile from the reality of it.

I see your point, too. Technically speaking, reloading is cheaper than buying factory. 9mm is, in fact, the hardest to make cheaper. Rifle cartridges, which I must confess isn't the topic at hand, can be loaded MUCH cheaper than buying factory.

But you would be absolutely in the minority if you actually spend less money as a full-bore reloader and shooter than you would if you bought factory ammo.

I can see this if you only shoot a box or two a month. It would take years to get a return on your investment in this manner. But, I also don't see very many people just load for pistol once they start to reload. You can see faster money savings reloading for .45ACP etc., in pistol and rifle cartridges are a BIG gainer.

When it comes down to it, I see it as an absolute that money can be saved by reloading using essential components to get the job done.

I think you see the reality of not very many people just get the essentials and get quite involved in dumping money in their newfound hobby. And I think your viewpoint on this matter is only fair to address.

[GingerGuy]

If you do go forward with reloading, I would suggest you reload simple supply quantities for a while. Gain some experience and additional knowledge before you go out and stock up on huge inventories of primers, bullets and powder. Find out what brands you like, your gun likes and ones that are readily available to you.

There is little value to tie up a bunch of cash into reloading supplies, when later you find alternative brands that you like better. After several months of reloading and shooting, then start to acquire larger quantities supplies to reduce your costs.

[Dr. Strangelove]

9mm Luger

Primers: .03 Pick your brand, they run $30.00/1000 here
Powder: .02 Accurate #5 $20.00/lb
Cases: .00 I use "free range" cases (not so many hormones, you know)
Bullets: .19 115gr Hornady XTP 18.99/100

Total: .24 per cartridge/$24.00 per 100 for 115 Hornady XTP

From Midway USA - item#508945 25 count 115gr Hornady XTP $16.49

Commercially loaded = $65.96 per 100
Loaded by me = $24.00 per 100

For inexpensive "plinkers", I can shoot lead bullets for about .10 each, bringing cost per 100 rounds to about $15.00. I don't cost in the casings because I get 9mm for free at the range, or from friends who shoot but don't reload. If you do buy casings, that will change the numbers quite a bit.

7mm Rem Mag

Primer: .03
Powder: .18
Case: .00 (remember, don't pay for cases)
Bullet: .29 154gr Hornady SST $29.99/100

Total .50 per cartridge/ $10.00/box for 154gr Hornady SST

From Cabela's Hornady 7mm Rem Mag 154gr SST item# XJ - 210823 $34.99

Commercially loaded = $174.95/100
Loaded by me = $50.00/100

Remember - I'm comparing loading premium bullets to purchasing the same premium bullets as loaded ammunition. You can buy less expensive component bullets and you can buy less expensive commercial ammunition depending on your tastes and needs.

Just to throw this out here - Tuttle8 - thanks for putting into words better than I have been able my own thoughts - if you are just looking to save money and don't enjoy tinkering and just "puttering around", don't get into loading. If you factor in your time as a cost, you will never be able to beat factory ammunition.

[bcarver]

Hey chris,
I have two presses, two scales, a Speer manual, powder measurer, funnel, Lee Hand primer tool, dies, case trimmer, dies, shell holders....ect ..ect.
I am going to sell them at about half price.
I am selling this for a buddy and haven't sorted it all yet.
You can have first shot at all of it you want.
best press is a Lee Chalenger.(looks new or never used)
Powder Measure is a Lyman #55. (Old but complete)
best scale is a Lyman
I have 9mm,45acp, 2 sets of 357, 30-30 and 30-06 dies and shellholders.
Tell me what calibers you want to reload and I'll set you up.

[DEDON45]

You could save money, if you don't shoot more after you start reloading... I don't know anyone that hasn't started shooting more.. so you come out even, but have more fun (I enjoy the reloading almost as much as touching them off).

dittos to what one previous poster said about going "too cheap"... the better equipment will last and last... your kids, and maybe your grandkids could reload on the same equipment you buy today. The better quality brands also have less idiosyncrasies than the cheaper stuff... less frustration, for sure. My best friend is currently reloading on an old Spar-T press (the older version of the current Lyman T-Mag) he inherited from his father... I believe the thing is as old as we are (I'm 32, soon to be 33), and it still works just fine, after many 1000's of rounds have been made on it.

So, who are the better quality brands I speak of? I'm a Hornady guy (have two presses, a single stage and the LnL AP), but the Lyman, RCBS, Redding, and Dillon products are also excellent. If you are a beginner, I highly recommend getting one of the excellent Single Stage or Turret Reloading Kits from Lyman, Hornady, or RCBS. The Lyman T-Mag and the Hornady Classic kits probably have the best bang for the buck... even if you advance towards a progressive, the old turret or O press will still be needed for chores at the bench.

Lee: I got started on Lee as a teenager... a good value for the money, but unless you are on a severely limited budget, I'd skip ahead to one of the other makes... a lot of folks (like me) that started on Lee advanced forward to other brands... their current O press offerings aren't bad, but I'd avoid their progressive presses, unless you enjoy constant fiddling with plastic parts. I recall breaking the old Challenger I had a lot, where the toggle joint was (cast aluminum part, badly cast)... they do offer some steel and iron presses now, I hear they are OK. I guess I just got soured on them after they started charging us for replacement toggles... and yes, before the flames come, the cases were lubed

Welcome to another addiction!

[FatWhiteMan]

+1 on the kids post. I used to pay my 10 year old nephew a $1 to go pick up and sort all of our brass after every session. The problem is he is now 15 and he shoots and reloads everything he can get his hands on including my brass and supplies. However, my kids are starting to get old enough to be brass monkeys so I'll have it made again for a while anyway.

I also buy cheap tarps (sometimes $2-$3 on sale) at Harbor Freight. These make great brass catchers in the back yard. And if you leave them down for a few days and kill all the grass, you have a nice brass spots for weeks.