Gun barrel cleaners....the differences between ammonia and the non-ammonia ones

BBush · May 29, 2007, 12:26 AM

I see that there are any number of barrel cleaning solvents on the market. Some advertise as being ammonia free while others advertise that they contain ammonia. What are the pro's and con's of using and/or not using a solvent with ammonia in it to remove fouling in a barrel? Are the ones with ammonia in them any more likely to cause pitting?

DWARREN123 · May 29, 2007, 12:39 AM

Ammonia is use to remove copper fouling, it will also over time if left on steel cause damage. Ammonia is not really much use on other types of fouling and must be cleaned out then a good lube used.
Other types without ammonia clean carbon and unburnt powder/powder residue.
Also on firearms that use ammo with corrosive primers hot soapy water or water with a little ammonia is used to clean while the barrel is still warm, then dried and lubed. Corrosive primer residue collects moisture which corrodes metal.
Just some of what I have seen and heard.

Dfariswheel · May 29, 2007, 01:08 PM

As above, the copper solvents contain a type of ammonia to remove the copper fouling.

Most bore cleaners, even with ammonia will not harm the bore, certainly not causing pitting.
Some copper solvents like Sweet's 7.62 specifically state on the bottle not to leave it in the bore for longer than necessary.
Others, like Hoppe's can be left in the bore indefinitely without damage.

Simply read and follow the label directions and your barrel will not be harmed, even with the really aggressive cleaners.

BillCA · May 29, 2007, 03:46 PM

Though, we should also note that any solvent that contains Ammonia or is labeled as removing copper fouling should not be used on nickle plated guns. If it gets under the plating it can attack the copper base layer under the nickle which will cause blistering or peeling.

Copper fouling is more a problem with rifles than with handguns, IMO. I had a 30 year old 1911 which saw nothing but jacketed ammo but never exhibited any signs of copper fouling in the bore.

Plink · May 30, 2007, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Though, we should also note that any solvent that contains Ammonia or is labeled as removing copper fouling should not be used on nickle plated guns. If it gets under the plating it can attack the copper base layer under the nickle which will cause blistering or peeling.

Electroless nickel is the most common form of nickel plating done on guns. It's applied directly to the steel and not to a copper base layer, as electroplating would require. The warning not to use it on nickel plated guns is sound though. I'm not sure how it causes the damage but I've heard a lot of reports that it does. I know you shouldn't leave ammonia in contact with hard chrome for long either. It causes oxidation of the chrome. Perhaps it does the same to nickel?

Dfariswheel · May 30, 2007, 07:09 PM

Bore solvents don't affect hard chrome. I seriously doubt an ordinary bore cleaner would cause hard chrome to "oxidize".

The way solvent "can" attack ordinary bright nickel is by infiltrating UNDER the nickel and attacking the copper undercoat.
This breaks the bond of the nickel and it starts flaking off.
A gun that has wear or scratches, or has developed cracks in the plating will allow the solvent to penetrate.

All you have to do to eliminate any possibility of damage is to clean as you normally would, but don't let the solvent soak on the plating for longer than necessary.
When you're done, wipe all the solvent off the nickel.

Since copper fouling isn't as bad a problem with handguns, use ordinary solvents like Hoppe's #9, and NOT the more aggressive solvents made to do a better job on copper fouling.
I've seen bright nickel handguns that have been cleaned regularly for 50 years with Hoppe's #9 and show no signs of degradation of the plating.

CAN bore solvents damage bright nickel.....Yes.
However like so much on the internet it's been over-hyped to the point where people are not properly cleaning and maintaining their plated guns and having them deteriorate.

To be clear: The only plating you need to even be concerned about is the old style bright nickel.
Hard chrome, NP3, electroless nickel and the others are not affected.

P5 Guy · May 30, 2007, 09:06 PM

All of the copper, nickel, and tin strippers that I worked in my days as a plater were amonia based. They had other chemicals that improved there effectiveness. Hydrochloric acid is the main chemical in chrome stripper.

Plink · May 31, 2007, 01:21 AM

I got the information about ammonia oxidizing hard chrome from one of the manufacturers sites. I don't remember which offhand. I believe I was browsing AR-15s at the time. Could have been Bushmaster, Stag or Model 1. I had never heard it before, but I figure they would know more about it than I do. I actually do some electroless nickel and hard chrome plating, so I guess I should know more about them than I do. Time for me to hit the books I guess.

May 29, 2007, 12:26 AM	#1
BBush Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2005 Posts: 130	Gun barrel cleaners....the differences between ammonia and the non-ammonia ones I see that there are any number of barrel cleaning solvents on the market. Some advertise as being ammonia free while others advertise that they contain ammonia. What are the pro's and con's of using and/or not using a solvent with ammonia in it to remove fouling in a barrel? Are the ones with ammonia in them any more likely to cause pitting?

May 29, 2007, 12:39 AM	#2
DWARREN123 Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2006 Location: BETWEEN TN & KY Posts: 1,758	Ammonia is use to remove copper fouling, it will also over time if left on steel cause damage. Ammonia is not really much use on other types of fouling and must be cleaned out then a good lube used. Other types without ammonia clean carbon and unburnt powder/powder residue. Also on firearms that use ammo with corrosive primers hot soapy water or water with a little ammonia is used to clean while the barrel is still warm, then dried and lubed. Corrosive primer residue collects moisture which corrodes metal. Just some of what I have seen and heard. __________________ Have a nice day!

May 29, 2007, 03:46 PM	#4
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	Though, we should also note that any solvent that contains Ammonia or is labeled as removing copper fouling should not be used on nickle plated guns. If it gets under the plating it can attack the copper base layer under the nickle which will cause blistering or peeling. Copper fouling is more a problem with rifles than with handguns, IMO. I had a 30 year old 1911 which saw nothing but jacketed ammo but never exhibited any signs of copper fouling in the bore. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

May 29, 2007, 01:08 PM	#3
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	As above, the copper solvents contain a type of ammonia to remove the copper fouling. Most bore cleaners, even with ammonia will not harm the bore, certainly not causing pitting. Some copper solvents like Sweet's 7.62 specifically state on the bottle not to leave it in the bore for longer than necessary. Others, like Hoppe's can be left in the bore indefinitely without damage. Simply read and follow the label directions and your barrel will not be harmed, even with the really aggressive cleaners.

May 30, 2007, 07:09 PM	#6
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	Bore solvents don't affect hard chrome. I seriously doubt an ordinary bore cleaner would cause hard chrome to "oxidize". The way solvent "can" attack ordinary bright nickel is by infiltrating UNDER the nickel and attacking the copper undercoat. This breaks the bond of the nickel and it starts flaking off. A gun that has wear or scratches, or has developed cracks in the plating will allow the solvent to penetrate. All you have to do to eliminate any possibility of damage is to clean as you normally would, but don't let the solvent soak on the plating for longer than necessary. When you're done, wipe all the solvent off the nickel. Since copper fouling isn't as bad a problem with handguns, use ordinary solvents like Hoppe's #9, and NOT the more aggressive solvents made to do a better job on copper fouling. I've seen bright nickel handguns that have been cleaned regularly for 50 years with Hoppe's #9 and show no signs of degradation of the plating. CAN bore solvents damage bright nickel.....Yes. However like so much on the internet it's been over-hyped to the point where people are not properly cleaning and maintaining their plated guns and having them deteriorate. To be clear: The only plating you need to even be concerned about is the old style bright nickel. Hard chrome, NP3, electroless nickel and the others are not affected.

May 30, 2007, 09:06 PM	#7
P5 Guy Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2005 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 1,804	All of the copper, nickel, and tin strippers that I worked in my days as a plater were amonia based. They had other chemicals that improved there effectiveness. Hydrochloric acid is the main chemical in chrome stripper.

May 31, 2007, 01:21 AM	#8
Plink Member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Location: W. Texas Posts: 83	I got the information about ammonia oxidizing hard chrome from one of the manufacturers sites. I don't remember which offhand. I believe I was browsing AR-15s at the time. Could have been Bushmaster, Stag or Model 1. I had never heard it before, but I figure they would know more about it than I do. I actually do some electroless nickel and hard chrome plating, so I guess I should know more about them than I do. Time for me to hit the books I guess.