Kuk Sool Won

gifted · August 31, 2004, 04:20 PM

Any one here have opinions of it? It's been recommended to me by a friend, and I can get lessons free on base.

My eventual goal is to study non-sporting arts, and learn weapon skills. I don't want to learn to score points, let's say. I figure this might be a good place to start.

claude783 · August 31, 2004, 10:09 PM

OK, I think you are being too broad in your approach.

Are you intrested in learning close combat with the shotgun, handgun, knife, or are you intrested in long range shooting, such as sniper?

The gun sports covers a lot of area. Its a lot like having a motor vechile, do you need a pick up, an economy car, a motor bike, a semi?

Handguns:auto/ revolver?
Rifle: bolt, lever, auto, single?
shotgun: auto, pump, bolt, single, double (side-by-side/ or imposed)

So, perhaps is you narrow down you field a little bit we can give you some feedback!

gifted · August 31, 2004, 10:45 PM

Well, this was for unarmed, and melee(to borrow from D&D) combat. I was thinking for guns, well, a variety. I'm looking at competition and home defense. It may be a while before carrying regularly becomes practical, so I'll be focusing on that a whole lot.

I figure right now close combat is more of a focus. This is also research for a book, to some extent, and the characters involved the most are more close quarters fighters.

claude783 · September 1, 2004, 05:52 PM

Go to the Cold Steel Knife website.

Lynn Thompson has some articles posted on knife, tomahawk, he also sells some tapes on fighting.

Another website would be the Dog Brothers...stick fighting!

Now, for some reality. About 80% of the stuff taught in the Dojo is to slow on the street. So, your better off with 6-7 nasty techniques than 15 complete katas!

About the quickest to learn is kick boxing. Work out 3-4 days a week, in about a year and a half you should be able to pretty well take care of yourself.

Tamara · September 1, 2004, 09:07 PM

Not sure that IDPA or Lynn Thompson have too much to do with Kuk Sool Wan...

Maybe I'm utterly misreading Claude's posts...

LAK · September 2, 2004, 02:52 AM

http://www.kuk-sool-won-liverpool.co.uk/

Well, dem Scousers sure 'ave travelled and gun to great lengts ta learn 'ow ta protect demselfs from dem scallywags, da Salford and Moss Side gangs from Manchester!

KSFreeman · September 2, 2004, 08:31 AM

No opinion, but it is my understanding and experience (4 years of Hapkido in undergrad) that the Korean arts teach weapons later rather than sooner.

If you want weapons instruction quickly, as in immediately, then CMA or FMA would be the way to go. I've been a seminar student of FMA for a while and enjoy it very much. (Will start formal lessons next week). My "base arts" are in CMA and both are weapon-centric.

Claude, kick boxing? Like MT? Does it teach weaponry???

TheStrasbourgGoat · September 2, 2004, 05:03 PM

I did KSW for several years in undergrad. It's a very korean art - sort of a blend of TKD and Hapkido. You'll also get throws and groundfighting.

I think it can provide an excellent base in kicking/punching, joint manipulation, and throws. It also has some internal/meditation aspects, if that's your gig.

KSW is very much a marital art as compared to a fighting system - it does belt ranking, forms, etc. The style has a strong sense of history and tradition. If you are looking for a pure fighting system or something like "Combatives" (what does that mean?), KSW may not be for you.

Regarding weapons - KSW teaches a variety of traditional weapons. You will eventually get some knife and stick stuff, but you probably wont get bridgework from H2H to weapons - and you should not expect training in modern weapons (folding knives, firearms).

This page has a pretty good summary of what's taught:

http://www.kuksoolwon.com/kuksool01.html

I like the style alot - I'd love the chance to pick it up again. But hey man - you said the lessons are free. That's a no-brainer!

enjoy!

claude783 · September 2, 2004, 06:59 PM

Aww shucks...about all I can say, is when a problem goes beyond the fang and nail stage...you might as well go to the shotgun, handgun, rifle, the legal problems are going to cost you the same as if you used a knife, club, hunk of pipe, or broken beer bottle...hopefully, a swift kick tearing off the knee cap will end the situation before it escalates to the weapons stage...my personal theory, apologize like *ell and get outa there!

Failing putting a thumb through the eye socket, shoving knuckles into the throat, a weapon is the last thing I would prefer to use...

Sitting in a court room listening to the dribble about this "gremlin" and how he was going to be cannonized by some "cult" for all the good works he did...having the gremlins little children come up to me and ask "why did you **** my daddy".

Then having a room mate for the last 20 years of my life with the name of Bruno, who has preverted ideas of S** is another reason I have for not wanting to use weapons...unless necessary!

And yes, I own a Randall Model 1 with 7" blade and know how to use it for defense if necessary...

gifted · September 2, 2004, 08:42 PM

Well, the free thing, and I'm not sure about how available the training I want is in the area. It's a rather small town. I figure this would give me a base, and so when I can start learning what I want, I'm not totally clueless. Unless it teaches me stuff that would be counterproductive.

JerryM · September 2, 2004, 08:49 PM

I sincerely hope no one takes this wrong.

I wonder if some young folks form opinions regarding what is possible or practical. If one wants to get in shape and develop better discipline then the martial arts might be good. There is a spiritual side that is not healthy for a Christian. To meditate on ones own strength and ignore that Christ is our strength is not good.

But if you want to clean out a bar, then it is the wrong approach for many reasons, both legal and practicle.

If the BG has a knife, gun, or another weapon, it is not time to be Ranger Walker and take it away from him.

When the situation is deadly then use deadly force.
Hand to hand can get one in a lot of trouble.

There aren't many Bruce Lees, and even he would not be able to do the things we see in the movies.

So may I ask what scenario you see that would be better solved by karate?

For a LEO, it is a different situation, and he needs to be as proficient at hand to hand combat as reasonably possible.

Jerry

gifted · September 2, 2004, 11:26 PM

I'm not trying to be Bruce Lee. When all else fails, you have your fists. And I plan on being able to use them.

Quote:

There is a spiritual side that is not healthy for a Christian. To meditate on ones own strength and ignore that Christ is our strength is not good.

So you meditate on Christ's strenth. All religions have a little bit of truth. Perhaps here is a little tidbit that, properly applied, can have a significant affect.

Don Gwinn · September 4, 2004, 03:32 PM

Let's not bring Christianity into this. For one thing, it'll get the thread closed if it starts an argument, and that's near certainty.

For another, it's fairly irrelevant. Christians think over their strengths and weaknesses, too, you know. That's all meditation is. Ever hear a good Christian speak of "clearing his mind?" Well, there you go.

Now, if they demand that you pray to buddha or something, that would be different. I doubt that's the case here, so there should be no need to have an argument about Christianity and the martial arts. If you really feel the need, there are a million such discussions going on in other places right now.

JerryM · September 4, 2004, 04:42 PM

Don,

I stated my opinion. I did not intend to make it an issue for a non-christian. If it is not an issue why bring it up again?

That remains my opinion and it is germane to Christians. Other than that I have nothing to say about it. Close it or whatevere you desire.

Jerry

TheStrasbourgGoat · September 8, 2004, 09:02 AM

. . . no praying to anybody in KSW. The internal aspects of the style are presented in a nonreligious manner (at least, at the club I went to).

badLT · September 8, 2004, 12:33 PM

I am actually involved in a KSW program in a university and believe that it provides a great workout as with enough time, provides a strong base in the martial arts (strikes, falls, throws, etc.). It does not seem to stress weapons as much as say FMA does but it still provides some training in practical (staff, knife, etc.) and impractical (nunchaku, sword, etc.) weapons.

O yea and with the "Bruce Lee" self defense remark - Bruce had the correct idea with self defense: Martial arts training + Colt 1911 = realistic self defense.

August 31, 2004, 04:20 PM	#1
gifted Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2004 Location: New Mexico Posts: 409	Kuk Sool Won Any one here have opinions of it? It's been recommended to me by a friend, and I can get lessons free on base. My eventual goal is to study non-sporting arts, and learn weapon skills. I don't want to learn to score points, let's say. I figure this might be a good place to start.

September 1, 2004, 09:07 PM	#5
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	Not sure that IDPA or Lynn Thompson have too much to do with Kuk Sool Wan... Maybe I'm utterly misreading Claude's posts... __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

September 2, 2004, 08:31 AM	#7
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	No opinion, but it is my understanding and experience (4 years of Hapkido in undergrad) that the Korean arts teach weapons later rather than sooner. If you want weapons instruction quickly, as in immediately, then CMA or FMA would be the way to go. I've been a seminar student of FMA for a while and enjoy it very much. (Will start formal lessons next week). My "base arts" are in CMA and both are weapon-centric. Claude, kick boxing? Like MT? Does it teach weaponry??? __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).

September 2, 2004, 08:49 PM	#11
JerryM Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,889	I sincerely hope no one takes this wrong. I wonder if some young folks form opinions regarding what is possible or practical. If one wants to get in shape and develop better discipline then the martial arts might be good. There is a spiritual side that is not healthy for a Christian. To meditate on ones own strength and ignore that Christ is our strength is not good. But if you want to clean out a bar, then it is the wrong approach for many reasons, both legal and practicle. If the BG has a knife, gun, or another weapon, it is not time to be Ranger Walker and take it away from him. When the situation is deadly then use deadly force. Hand to hand can get one in a lot of trouble. There aren't many Bruce Lees, and even he would not be able to do the things we see in the movies. So may I ask what scenario you see that would be better solved by karate? For a LEO, it is a different situation, and he needs to be as proficient at hand to hand combat as reasonably possible. Jerry __________________ Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

September 4, 2004, 03:32 PM	#13
Don Gwinn Staff Emeritus Join Date: March 9, 2000 Location: Virden, IL Posts: 5,917	Let's not bring Christianity into this. For one thing, it'll get the thread closed if it starts an argument, and that's near certainty. For another, it's fairly irrelevant. Christians think over their strengths and weaknesses, too, you know. That's all meditation is. Ever hear a good Christian speak of "clearing his mind?" Well, there you go. Now, if they demand that you pray to buddha or something, that would be different. I doubt that's the case here, so there should be no need to have an argument about Christianity and the martial arts. If you really feel the need, there are a million such discussions going on in other places right now. __________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don Gwinn: Chicago Gun Rights Examiner

August 31, 2004, 10:09 PM	#2
claude783 Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2004 Location: people's republic of California Posts: 386	OK, I think you are being too broad in your approach. Are you intrested in learning close combat with the shotgun, handgun, knife, or are you intrested in long range shooting, such as sniper? The gun sports covers a lot of area. Its a lot like having a motor vechile, do you need a pick up, an economy car, a motor bike, a semi? Handguns:auto/ revolver? Rifle: bolt, lever, auto, single? shotgun: auto, pump, bolt, single, double (side-by-side/ or imposed) So, perhaps is you narrow down you field a little bit we can give you some feedback!

August 31, 2004, 10:45 PM	#3
gifted Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2004 Location: New Mexico Posts: 409	Well, this was for unarmed, and melee(to borrow from D&D) combat. I was thinking for guns, well, a variety. I'm looking at competition and home defense. It may be a while before carrying regularly becomes practical, so I'll be focusing on that a whole lot. I figure right now close combat is more of a focus. This is also research for a book, to some extent, and the characters involved the most are more close quarters fighters.

September 1, 2004, 05:52 PM	#4
claude783 Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2004 Location: people's republic of California Posts: 386	Go to the Cold Steel Knife website. Lynn Thompson has some articles posted on knife, tomahawk, he also sells some tapes on fighting. Another website would be the Dog Brothers...stick fighting! Now, for some reality. About 80% of the stuff taught in the Dojo is to slow on the street. So, your better off with 6-7 nasty techniques than 15 complete katas! About the quickest to learn is kick boxing. Work out 3-4 days a week, in about a year and a half you should be able to pretty well take care of yourself.

September 2, 2004, 02:52 AM	#6
LAK Junior member Join Date: May 14, 2002 Posts: 2,251	http://www.kuk-sool-won-liverpool.co.uk/ Well, dem Scousers sure 'ave travelled and gun to great lengts ta learn 'ow ta protect demselfs from dem scallywags, da Salford and Moss Side gangs from Manchester!

September 2, 2004, 05:03 PM	#8
TheStrasbourgGoat Junior Member Join Date: May 20, 2004 Posts: 11	I did KSW for several years in undergrad. It's a very korean art - sort of a blend of TKD and Hapkido. You'll also get throws and groundfighting. I think it can provide an excellent base in kicking/punching, joint manipulation, and throws. It also has some internal/meditation aspects, if that's your gig. KSW is very much a marital art as compared to a fighting system - it does belt ranking, forms, etc. The style has a strong sense of history and tradition. If you are looking for a pure fighting system or something like "Combatives" (what does that mean?), KSW may not be for you. Regarding weapons - KSW teaches a variety of traditional weapons. You will eventually get some knife and stick stuff, but you probably wont get bridgework from H2H to weapons - and you should not expect training in modern weapons (folding knives, firearms). This page has a pretty good summary of what's taught: http://www.kuksoolwon.com/kuksool01.html I like the style alot - I'd love the chance to pick it up again. But hey man - you said the lessons are free. That's a no-brainer! enjoy!

September 2, 2004, 06:59 PM	#9
claude783 Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2004 Location: people's republic of California Posts: 386	Aww shucks...about all I can say, is when a problem goes beyond the fang and nail stage...you might as well go to the shotgun, handgun, rifle, the legal problems are going to cost you the same as if you used a knife, club, hunk of pipe, or broken beer bottle...hopefully, a swift kick tearing off the knee cap will end the situation before it escalates to the weapons stage...my personal theory, apologize like ell and get outa there! Failing putting a thumb through the eye socket, shoving knuckles into the throat, a weapon is the last thing I would prefer to use... Sitting in a court room listening to the dribble about this "gremlin" and how he was going to be cannonized by some "cult" for all the good works he did...having the gremlins little children come up to me and ask "why did you * my daddy". Then having a room mate for the last 20 years of my life with the name of Bruno, who has preverted ideas of S is another reason I have for not wanting to use weapons...unless necessary! And yes, I own a Randall Model 1 with 7" blade and know how to use it for defense if necessary...

September 2, 2004, 08:42 PM	#10
gifted Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2004 Location: New Mexico Posts: 409	Well, the free thing, and I'm not sure about how available the training I want is in the area. It's a rather small town. I figure this would give me a base, and so when I can start learning what I want, I'm not totally clueless. Unless it teaches me stuff that would be counterproductive.

September 4, 2004, 04:42 PM	#14
JerryM Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,889	Don, I stated my opinion. I did not intend to make it an issue for a non-christian. If it is not an issue why bring it up again? That remains my opinion and it is germane to Christians. Other than that I have nothing to say about it. Close it or whatevere you desire. Jerry __________________ Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

September 8, 2004, 09:02 AM	#15
TheStrasbourgGoat Junior Member Join Date: May 20, 2004 Posts: 11	Just to clarify . . . . . . no praying to anybody in KSW. The internal aspects of the style are presented in a nonreligious manner (at least, at the club I went to).

September 8, 2004, 12:33 PM	#16
badLT Junior Member Join Date: September 8, 2004 Posts: 10	I am actually involved in a KSW program in a university and believe that it provides a great workout as with enough time, provides a strong base in the martial arts (strikes, falls, throws, etc.). It does not seem to stress weapons as much as say FMA does but it still provides some training in practical (staff, knife, etc.) and impractical (nunchaku, sword, etc.) weapons. O yea and with the "Bruce Lee" self defense remark - Bruce had the correct idea with self defense: Martial arts training + Colt 1911 = realistic self defense.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search