Rifle/Carbine vs Shotgun vs Handgun for HD POLL - Page 2

45Marlin carbine · April 14, 2009, 09:42 AM

the poll shows that 'combination' is leading by a wide margin.
for good reason IMO.
hard to beat a primary weapon of handgun with a shotty/carbine back up.
myself I have all 3 handy with the Camp carbine .45acp least 'handy'.

camogun · April 14, 2009, 09:48 AM

I've only owned revolvers and hunting rifles.I'm thinking of getting either a 9mm or a .45cal semiauto pistol for home and personal protection. I like the idea of the larger caliber to stop an attacker but wonder if using a smaller caliber will be more accurate,less muzzle jump. Also I'm planning on taking training to be an armed security guard and the school says most security companies use 9mm.

KLRANGL · April 14, 2009, 10:17 AM

Quote:

the poll shows that 'combination' is leading by a wide margin.
for good reason IMO.

I find it a little misleading as to what the preferred choice of self defense weapon is. I have all three, but voted handgun because that is what I would use 99.9% of the time...
A better poll would maybe have had the options of:
Combo: handgun preferred
Combo: shotgun preferred
Combo: rifle preferred
Combo: no preference

in addition to just shotgun/rifle/handgun

I have a feeling people voted combo just because they have all three

KnightZero · April 14, 2009, 10:37 AM

I can see the use for all of the above in HD, but in my scenario, anything larger than a pistol is far too clumsy and cumbersome to use in my apartment. Spiral staircases and long guns do not mix. I'm thinking of picking up a shotgun, but for bedside HD I'll stick with my Springfield XD+TLR-2

Slopemeno · April 14, 2009, 12:51 PM

I think what is unmentioned here is the huge edge a long gun (doesn't matter if it''s a subgun, shotgun, whatever) has over a pistol when you have to CONNECT under pressure, regardless of range.

BikerRN · April 14, 2009, 02:05 PM

I will use the phone first if I have a choice followed by a combination of various weapons.

If I have to go looking for that "bump in the night" I will use a handgun. If I KNOW there is an unauthorized intruder in the home I will use a shotgun from a barricaded position.

If niether of those options work, I can always use a 9mm Carbine, but I prefer the shotgun. As far as using a rifle caliber, in a rifle, for my living situation and the population density I feel it would not be a wise choice at this time. Your situation, needs and requirements may be different.

Biker

45Marlin carbine · April 14, 2009, 02:43 PM

Quote:
the poll shows that 'combination' is leading by a wide margin.
for good reason IMO.

I find it a little misleading as to what the preferred choice of self defense weapon is. I have all three, but voted handgun because that is what I would use 99.9% of the time...
A better poll would maybe have had the options of:
Combo: handgun preferred
Combo: shotgun preferred
Combo: rifle preferred
Combo: no preference

in addition to just shotgun/rifle/handgun

I have a feeling people voted combo just because they have all three

you selected just a part of my post - as stated 'hard to beat a primary weapon of handgun with a shotty/carbine back up' - a handgun 'preference' if you will allow.

Willie Lowman · April 14, 2009, 02:47 PM

Our first choice is the G22 w/surefire light. It is super reliable, accurate, and easy to navigate the confines of the house with. She loves the Glock and so do I. It's nice to see eye to eye on something.

My first choice in generic HD is the shotgun. It comes out about 6 times a year. I have defended against raccoons, stray dogs, and an army of starlings.

90% success rate. (Some starlings flew away before I could train the gauge on them)

KLRANGL · April 14, 2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

you selected just a part of my post

Sorry I didn't mean to single you out. I was just commenting on the fact that the poll might not be completely thorough, and was in no way regarding your post directly...
In fact, your post is a good example as to why the poll isn't thorough enough...

45Marlin carbine · April 14, 2009, 03:13 PM

actually the post is directed to 'HD' (home defense) weapon.
for 'self defense' outside the home where close quarters is not a concern then definitely a long gun.
as this is written I have my Makarov about 6' away and my SXS 12 ga Mag about 15' away if needed.
if I need to go outside the SXS goes and my Mak stuck in waistband of trousers.

Popa-45 · April 14, 2009, 09:37 PM

When I went through the D an G courses, Florida only authorizes the 9MM, and the .38 spl for armed security. The instructor was saying that the board was considering adding the .40 to the eligable weapons, but haven't heard anything futher on the subject.

Rifleman 173 · April 15, 2009, 09:26 AM

It really depends on which firearm you train to use. I can use a variety of firearms in a home defense situation and feel comfortable with any of them. You come around my place and you can be met by any number of firearms in a fashion that is layered to allow me to have more options. For example, I might greet you with a shotgun backed up by a pistol which is backed up by a sheath knife. Then I could opt to use a carbine backed up by a pistol which is backed up by a sheath knife. The choice is mine and I train with all of them and I have contingency plans for a variety of different invasion situations. So I'm ready for day, night, low light, bright light and various other shooting/defensive situations.

Dwight55 · April 15, 2009, 11:32 AM

I took the question to be in a "Purely" home defense situation, . . .

A) Unexpectedly, someone kicks in the front door and attempts to enter

B) Burglars, B&E specialists enter your dwelling at night while you're asleep

C) Enraged neighbor comes to your porch looking for trouble

Something along the lines of the above, . . . as my perception of HD follows the above as most likely HD situation based on observation of local HD scenarios.

In that case, . . . the handgun would be the most logical, . . . as more than likely, . . . I could get to it in a hurry, . . . and may not be able to get to the shotty or the rifle.

Thus my vote.

May God bless,
Dwight

Enoy21 · April 15, 2009, 12:18 PM

I once read an article that mentioned a study of Prison inmates... it went something like this ...

" What is the one thing that would stop you dead in your tracks if you were doing something you shouldn't be doing ? "

The resounding answer was " The sound of a 12 Gauge pump action "

Most of what I've read has said that for "purely" home defense a Short barreled (18" ) tactical shotgun ( No stock but pistol grip for maneuverability ) with Buck shot or bird shot ( to avoid over penetration) is the best Home Defense weapon there is. The sound alone is enough to scare an attacker off. Also the fact that in a high stress situation and a moving Attacker , a shotgun gives a bit more room for error.

If I had wanted one for STRICTLY that , I would not have gotten my Glock. I would have bought a shortgun. But I wanted a CCW/Target Pistol as well to serve as both.

I have often though considered trading in my .22 Magnum for a Mossberg 500 ( interchangeable barrel lengths for home defense or Hunting ) and adding a tactical Pistol Grip to it.

Mossberg 500 Cruiser

More review info:
http://www.firearmsfirst.com/?p=11

Sparks2112 · April 15, 2009, 01:02 PM

I keep a pistol on me, but, if I knew someone was in my house I'd have to go for the shotgun. I've trained extensively with one, and feel I understand it's capabilities very well. Not to say I don't have a pistol or rifle around, it's just my first choice if I know if have unwanted visitors.

Tucker 1371 · April 15, 2009, 01:40 PM

Right now my only viable option is an AK74 w/ a 16" bbl. As I am still in the early stages of building my gun collection; the other guns I have are ones I've had since I was a kid (a Mossberg 20ga pump and a Ruger 10/22).

For me the AK is fairly handy and I feel very comfortable shouldering and pointing it, much more so than some of my friends' ARs (this is just me personally). My only concern is overpenetration.

I think my next gun is going to be an 870 tactical though and that will most likely be my go-to HD gun.

I know I put combo in the choices and that most people like the idea of a backup weapon but my gripe with that is actually being able to effectively employ both. I don't sleep with a holster on and trying to handle both a long gun and a handgun while moving to engage an intruder just seems like it would be distracting and too time consuming, especially as I am trying to go from 0% alertness to 200% alertness.

ezenbrowntown · April 15, 2009, 02:10 PM

Maybe I'm a bit critical, but "combination of the above" is a bit optimistic in my opinion. Barring a long, drawn out gun fight, the ability to "swap" weapons doesn't seem all that feasible. If engaged, why in the world would you want to discard a shotty to unholster a pistol, or vice versa? Or if someone was advancing quickly, why waste time ascertaining a secondary firearm? Just my thoughts, and some of you may have experience that differs, which is fine. I'm always looking to learn.

I have pistols and a HD shotgun (Mossberg Maverick). I'm not under the delusion that shotgun will magically difuse any situation (one shot kill, bg pees his pants, etc.), but I do believe I'd trust it foremost. Sure it doesn't have the manueverability of a handgun, but I believe under duress I can be much more accurate and I believe the "hits" would have much effectiveness than a solitary handgun round. Just my $.02.

Tucker 1371 · April 15, 2009, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Maybe I'm a bit critical, but "combination of the above" is a bit optimistic in my opinion. Barring a long, drawn out gun fight, the ability to "swap" weapons doesn't seem all that feasible.

Thats kind of what I was getting at in my last post. I'm not saying you should only have one gun available for HD but when the SHtF I don't think trying to arrange multilple guns is the best idea. Grab you're favorite, check it quick and move to engage the threat.

EDIT: BTW I am curious to hear the person who voted for "Grab the phone and hope the police show up in time" defend their choice

LMAO.

Bartholomew Roberts · April 15, 2009, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Most of what I've read has said that for "purely" home defense a Short barreled (18" ) tactical shotgun ( No stock but pistol grip for maneuverability ) with Buck shot or bird shot ( to avoid over penetration) is the best Home Defense weapon there is. The sound alone is enough to scare an attacker off. Also the fact that in a high stress situation and a moving Attacker , a shotgun gives a bit more room for error.

Congratulations on working an astounding number of popular shotgun myths into a single, succinct paragraph. Misinformation may not be much of talent; but condensing it in such an easy to read format surely must be

In honor of your achievement, I have searched the TFL archives for threads discussing and debunking those particular myths and hotlinked them to the corresponding myths in your quote for ease of reading.

David Armstrong · April 15, 2009, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Most of what I've read has said that for "purely" home defense a Short barreled (18" ) tactical shotgun ( No stock but pistol grip for maneuverability ) with Buck shot or bird shot ( to avoid over penetration) is the best Home Defense weapon there is. The sound alone is enough to scare an attacker off

Apparently most of what you have read is wrong. Shotguns need stocks, don't use bird shot for defense, and the sound might scare some but don't count on it.

Glenn E. Meyer · April 15, 2009, 03:52 PM

Didn't I say this early on:

Quote:

The problem with discussing shotguns is that we get all the cliches thrown up - racking, guaranteed kill, can't miss, etc.

I win the Nostradamus prize.

Tucker 1371 · April 15, 2009, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Apparently most of what you have read is wrong. Shotguns need stocks, don't use bird shot for defense, and the sound might scare some but don't count on it.

Couldn't agree more David

Quote:

I win the Nostradamus prize.

Hahahaha

David Armstrong · April 15, 2009, 04:25 PM

Quote:

I win the Nostradamus prize.

Come on now, Glenn, that is sort of like predicting the sun will rise in the East on Tuesday.

hogdogs · April 15, 2009, 04:25 PM

Testing of the sound of a pump shotgun action as fear inducing...

Quote:

Okay I couldn't stand the suspense further!!! All this hub-bub about the sound of a shot gun racking a shell will send a man running...
So I took all the shells out of mine, Checked it 2 more times and YELLED... FREEZE MUTHA F'ER And racked the action... Didn't scare me one bit... But my little pitbull mix female ran out of the room and momma's pomeranian/chihuahua cross bailed under the bed hitting her head on the way! So I shut off the lights (might work in the dark) tried it again and same result (NOTHING) I didn't run or poop my pants. Just stood there...
So I got the bright idea to include a second party. Called momma in the room and after explaining the hollerin' and why her dog was cowering and shaking under the bed I told her to just Cycle the action real hard and fast... DERN IT!!! Nothing again! Had her do the loud yell first (this was easy as she was still mad I scared her dog) and last result same as the rest... NO NEGATIVE REACTION OF FEAR! Don't believe it will work on more than a couple chicken dogs!

From this thread...
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...og#post3133205
Pardon the searching, it was hard to find the post...
Brent

Enoy21 · April 16, 2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Congratulations on working an astounding number of popular shotgun myths into a single, succinct paragraph. Misinformation may not be much of talent; but condensing it in such an easy to read format surely must be

In honor of your achievement, I have searched the TFL archives for threads discussing and debunking those particular myths and hotlinked them to the corresponding myths in your quote for ease of reading.

lol , Wow I'm glad I got an award for something AND i listed in there "what I've read" .

A couple things though ... The pistol grip while perhaps not as ideal as a stock , at the range I am thinking of ( especially in my very small home ) I believe that it would be a more maneuverable weapon in a panic. Obviously not as comfortable for recoil , but this is not my target shooting fun gun. I would be shooting it enough to feel comfortable at hitting a 5-6 foot man with it within 20 feet, then storing it and hope I never need it.

The link the you added had many many people also agreeing for bird shot .... so that seems like a pretty popular opinion piece that I believe could go both ways... So Bird or Buck , either/or would be a viable option depending on what you want out of it. Your post to the Over penetration issue is also riddled with people on both sides of the few point with some people having instructors say the same to them. So again ... either/or dependent on your views.

Obviously the sound alone is not a sure fire way to scare anyone off.... But there was a study of inmates who were asked .... and the Sound of the pump action shotgun would stop them in their tracks.... Obviously there are always various difference attacks and scenarios ... in a burglary , or a situation where someone is quietly , hunting YOU , the warning of the firearm and the sound of the pump action " may be enough" to scare them off. I often tell my GF when at home at night , if she ever feels the need to draw while in her Bedroom , To make sure as she announces the firearm to Rack the slide right after so they will know it's not just an idle threat and may cause them to think twice about coming through that door.

As for the room for error , I'm not saying you don't need to aim. With the shorter barrel , though , you had a little more room for error and wound infliction. At that close of range there is not going to be alot of expansion , but a 1-2" hole may mean the difference and catching him in a vital , and grazing his body....

So while I don't claim, to know all of the "facts" that you guys site to counter the "myths" I listed... It would certainly apear that they are very very common "myths" and there is a reason they have so often been repeated....

You know my GF tells me all the time that " Milk is good for you " is a Myth as well , and that pharmecutical companies and Vaccinations are the Corporate genocide leaders of the free world....

My point with this ? the post was a matter of preference question and why ... Perhaps my reasons are myths to you all , but I believe in them for the reasons I listed over a handgun or a rifle as MY "perfect" home defense weapon"

Thanks for my award btw

View Poll Results: Best for HD: Rifle/Carbine vs Shotgun vs Handgun
Rifle/Carbine	13	7.98%
Shotgun	54	33.13%
Handgun	26	15.95%
Combination of the above	69	42.33%
Use a phone and hope the police show up in time	1	0.61%
Voters: 163. You may not vote on this poll

April 14, 2009, 10:37 AM	#29
KnightZero Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2008 Location: Paoli, PA (for now) Posts: 100	I can see the use for all of the above in HD, but in my scenario, anything larger than a pistol is far too clumsy and cumbersome to use in my apartment. Spiral staircases and long guns do not mix. I'm thinking of picking up a shotgun, but for bedside HD I'll stick with my Springfield XD+TLR-2 __________________ KnightZero - Zombie Killing Mercenary Watchman for hire. Will work for food.

April 14, 2009, 02:47 PM	#33
Willie Lowman Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Uh-Hi-O Posts: 3,006	Our first choice is the G22 w/surefire light. It is super reliable, accurate, and easy to navigate the confines of the house with. She loves the Glock and so do I. It's nice to see eye to eye on something. My first choice in generic HD is the shotgun. It comes out about 6 times a year. I have defended against raccoons, stray dogs, and an army of starlings. 90% success rate. (Some starlings flew away before I could train the gauge on them) __________________ "9mm has a very long history of being a pointy little bullet moving quickly" --Sevens

April 14, 2009, 09:37 PM	#36
Popa-45 Member Join Date: April 8, 2009 Location: jax fl Posts: 18	camogun When I went through the D an G courses, Florida only authorizes the 9MM, and the .38 spl for armed security. The instructor was saying that the board was considering adding the .40 to the eligable weapons, but haven't heard anything futher on the subject. __________________ The 3 g's that made America great: God, Guns, Guts The 3 g's to keep America great: Guts, Guns, God

April 15, 2009, 11:32 AM	#38
Dwight55 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 2,568	I took the question to be in a "Purely" home defense situation, . . . A) Unexpectedly, someone kicks in the front door and attempts to enter B) Burglars, B&E specialists enter your dwelling at night while you're asleep C) Enraged neighbor comes to your porch looking for trouble Something along the lines of the above, . . . as my perception of HD follows the above as most likely HD situation based on observation of local HD scenarios. In that case, . . . the handgun would be the most logical, . . . as more than likely, . . . I could get to it in a hurry, . . . and may not be able to get to the shotty or the rifle. Thus my vote. May God bless, Dwight __________________ www.dwightsgunleather.com If you can breathe, . . . thank God! If you can read, . . . thank a teacher! If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a Veteran!

April 14, 2009, 09:42 AM	#26
45Marlin carbine Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2007 Location: South-Western North Carolina Posts: 1,124	the poll shows that 'combination' is leading by a wide margin. for good reason IMO. hard to beat a primary weapon of handgun with a shotty/carbine back up. myself I have all 3 handy with the Camp carbine .45acp least 'handy'.

April 14, 2009, 09:48 AM	#27
camogun Junior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Orlando,Florida Posts: 2	I've only owned revolvers and hunting rifles.I'm thinking of getting either a 9mm or a .45cal semiauto pistol for home and personal protection. I like the idea of the larger caliber to stop an attacker but wonder if using a smaller caliber will be more accurate,less muzzle jump. Also I'm planning on taking training to be an armed security guard and the school says most security companies use 9mm.

April 14, 2009, 12:51 PM	#30
Slopemeno Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2007 Posts: 2,663	I think what is unmentioned here is the huge edge a long gun (doesn't matter if it''s a subgun, shotgun, whatever) has over a pistol when you have to CONNECT under pressure, regardless of range.

April 14, 2009, 02:05 PM	#31
BikerRN Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2007 Location: "State of Discombobulation" Posts: 1,333	I will use the phone first if I have a choice followed by a combination of various weapons. If I have to go looking for that "bump in the night" I will use a handgun. If I KNOW there is an unauthorized intruder in the home I will use a shotgun from a barricaded position. If niether of those options work, I can always use a 9mm Carbine, but I prefer the shotgun. As far as using a rifle caliber, in a rifle, for my living situation and the population density I feel it would not be a wise choice at this time. Your situation, needs and requirements may be different. Biker

April 14, 2009, 02:43 PM	#32
45Marlin carbine Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2007 Location: South-Western North Carolina Posts: 1,124	Quote: the poll shows that 'combination' is leading by a wide margin. for good reason IMO. I find it a little misleading as to what the preferred choice of self defense weapon is. I have all three, but voted handgun because that is what I would use 99.9% of the time... A better poll would maybe have had the options of: Combo: handgun preferred Combo: shotgun preferred Combo: rifle preferred Combo: no preference in addition to just shotgun/rifle/handgun I have a feeling people voted combo just because they have all three you selected just a part of my post - as stated 'hard to beat a primary weapon of handgun with a shotty/carbine back up' - a handgun 'preference' if you will allow.

April 14, 2009, 03:13 PM	#35
45Marlin carbine Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2007 Location: South-Western North Carolina Posts: 1,124	actually the post is directed to 'HD' (home defense) weapon. for 'self defense' outside the home where close quarters is not a concern then definitely a long gun. as this is written I have my Makarov about 6' away and my SXS 12 ga Mag about 15' away if needed. if I need to go outside the SXS goes and my Mak stuck in waistband of trousers.

April 15, 2009, 09:26 AM	#37
Rifleman 173 Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2007 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 589	It really depends on which firearm you train to use. I can use a variety of firearms in a home defense situation and feel comfortable with any of them. You come around my place and you can be met by any number of firearms in a fashion that is layered to allow me to have more options. For example, I might greet you with a shotgun backed up by a pistol which is backed up by a sheath knife. Then I could opt to use a carbine backed up by a pistol which is backed up by a sheath knife. The choice is mine and I train with all of them and I have contingency plans for a variety of different invasion situations. So I'm ready for day, night, low light, bright light and various other shooting/defensive situations.

April 15, 2009, 12:18 PM	#39
Enoy21 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2009 Posts: 240	I once read an article that mentioned a study of Prison inmates... it went something like this ... " What is the one thing that would stop you dead in your tracks if you were doing something you shouldn't be doing ? " The resounding answer was " The sound of a 12 Gauge pump action " Most of what I've read has said that for "purely" home defense a Short barreled (18" ) tactical shotgun ( No stock but pistol grip for maneuverability ) with Buck shot or bird shot ( to avoid over penetration) is the best Home Defense weapon there is. The sound alone is enough to scare an attacker off. Also the fact that in a high stress situation and a moving Attacker , a shotgun gives a bit more room for error. If I had wanted one for STRICTLY that , I would not have gotten my Glock. I would have bought a shortgun. But I wanted a CCW/Target Pistol as well to serve as both. I have often though considered trading in my .22 Magnum for a Mossberg 500 ( interchangeable barrel lengths for home defense or Hunting ) and adding a tactical Pistol Grip to it. Mossberg 500 Cruiser More review info: http://www.firearmsfirst.com/?p=11 Last edited by Enoy21; April 15, 2009 at 12:28 PM.

April 15, 2009, 01:02 PM	#40
Sparks2112 Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2008 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 479	I keep a pistol on me, but, if I knew someone was in my house I'd have to go for the shotgun. I've trained extensively with one, and feel I understand it's capabilities very well. Not to say I don't have a pistol or rifle around, it's just my first choice if I know if have unwanted visitors. __________________ -- Sparks AKA J.M. Johnston

April 15, 2009, 01:40 PM	#41
Tucker 1371 Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2008 Location: East TN Posts: 2,649	Right now my only viable option is an AK74 w/ a 16" bbl. As I am still in the early stages of building my gun collection; the other guns I have are ones I've had since I was a kid (a Mossberg 20ga pump and a Ruger 10/22). For me the AK is fairly handy and I feel very comfortable shouldering and pointing it, much more so than some of my friends' ARs (this is just me personally). My only concern is overpenetration. I think my next gun is going to be an 870 tactical though and that will most likely be my go-to HD gun. I know I put combo in the choices and that most people like the idea of a backup weapon but my gripe with that is actually being able to effectively employ both. I don't sleep with a holster on and trying to handle both a long gun and a handgun while moving to engage an intruder just seems like it would be distracting and too time consuming, especially as I am trying to go from 0% alertness to 200% alertness. __________________ Sgt. of Marines, 5th Award Expert Rifle, 237/250 Expert Pistol, 382/400. D Co, 4th CEB, Engineers UP!! If you start a thread, be active in it. Don't leave us hanging. OEF 2011 Sangin, Afg. Molon Labe Last edited by Tucker 1371; April 15, 2009 at 01:56 PM. Reason: left stuff out

April 15, 2009, 02:10 PM	#42
ezenbrowntown Member Join Date: October 21, 2008 Posts: 51	Maybe I'm a bit critical, but "combination of the above" is a bit optimistic in my opinion. Barring a long, drawn out gun fight, the ability to "swap" weapons doesn't seem all that feasible. If engaged, why in the world would you want to discard a shotty to unholster a pistol, or vice versa? Or if someone was advancing quickly, why waste time ascertaining a secondary firearm? Just my thoughts, and some of you may have experience that differs, which is fine. I'm always looking to learn. I have pistols and a HD shotgun (Mossberg Maverick). I'm not under the delusion that shotgun will magically difuse any situation (one shot kill, bg pees his pants, etc.), but I do believe I'd trust it foremost. Sure it doesn't have the manueverability of a handgun, but I believe under duress I can be much more accurate and I believe the "hits" would have much effectiveness than a solitary handgun round. Just my $.02.