Taurus Judge 2.5 or 3 inch .410?

[TruthTellers]

Bouncing around the idea of getting a Judge with the 6.5 inch barrel length and at that size the option of a cylinder chambered for 3 inch .410 is available; Taurus calls these the Judge Magnum.

On one hand the ability is nice, but the little extra shot is going to be spun all the same and the 000 Buck loads just mean I get one extra pellet and the Judge Magnum would weigh either 8 or 16 ounces more (confusing data on their website). The pro and con to that is the Judge Magnum is less fun to carry vs a standard Judge, but recoil is tamed and more enjoyable to shoot.

However, I'm not really looking at these long barrel Judges to shoot .410 from them, I'm more interested in them to shoot .45 Colt. That being the case, which would you guys choose?

There is also a difference in price, the Judge Magnum is about $50 more than the standard Judge.

[Bill DeShivs]

I would choose a different gun-one that is a dedicated .45 Colt caliber.

[44 AMP]

Same here. I have a Contender .45Colt/.410, and wound up getting a .45 Colt barrel for it, because it wouldn't shoot .45 Colt as well as my revolvers.

The big advantage to a .45Colt/.410 is using BIRD SHOT in the .410 for snakes and such. .410 slugs are no slouch, but fired from a .45 caliber barrel, you best be close, and lucky.

.410 buckshot is, in my opinion, not superior to .45 Colt slugs in any way. It is marketing hype based on the general belief that buckshot is effective, and that belief comes from the 12ga. Not the .410. 12ga buckshot works pretty well, but that is due to the mass of the shot charge, something the .410 doesn't have.

2.5" .410 will destroy snakes and rats really well, the 3 inch doesn't really get you anything but increased gun weight, and ammo cost. It does have a slight advantage for birds, but for pests and varmints, at pistol ranges, not so much, and for me, not worth the effort.

[1972RedNeck]

I have a Judge Magnum with a 3" barrel. I like it, but it is good for nothing. Accuracy with 45 Colt is poor. .410 shot is worthless - it might down a robin at 10 yards if you're lucky. It will probably scare off a snake at close range, but that's about it.

It's different and fun to shoot. That's it.

If you want a 45, get a 45.

Do I regret buying it? No. If I had to do it over, would I buy it again? Probably not.

If you are set on getting one, the shorter cylinder might, in theory, provide ever so slightly better accuracy with 45 Colt ammo.

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs

I would choose a different gun-one that is a dedicated .45 Colt caliber.

The drag with that is I want a double action and for a long barrel .45 Colt that immediately shoots the price up to at least $1000.

It's easy to say get a different gun, but not easy to spend more than double for it.

[1972RedNeck]

The drag with that is I want a double action and for a long barrel .45 Colt that immediately shoots the price up to at least $1000.

It's easy to say get a different gun, but not easy to spend more than double for it.

How much do you plan to shoot it? I picked mine up second hand so I don't know how many rounds it has through it, but it is starting to have some binding/lockup problems when shooting double action. Very common with Taurus revolvers from what I have read. Not a matter of if, but when.

For a novelty item, it's great. For any other purpose (other than snakes, maybe), it's pretty terrible.

YMMV.

[Forte S+W]

Personally, I went with the 3" Magnum Cylinder, simply because .410 ammo isn't always abundantly available, and 3" Shells seem more available than 2.5" Shells.

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by 1972RedNeck

How much do you plan to shoot it? I picked mine up second hand so I don't know how many rounds it has through it, but it is starting to have some binding/lockup problems when shooting double action. Very common with Taurus revolvers from what I have read. Not a matter of if, but when.

For a novelty item, it's great. For any other purpose (other than snakes, maybe), it's pretty terrible.

YMMV.

Terrible for what? I can hit a man at 20 yards with .45 with mine, thus I can do the same with it out to 50 probably with the longer barrel. I would shoot infrequently, it's to check a box on my list, don't have a long barrel DA .45 Colt and am not asking for heirloom quality or match grade accuracy.

[1972RedNeck]

Terrible for what? I can hit a man at 20 yards with .45 with mine, thus I can do the same with it out to 50 probably with the longer barrel. I would shoot infrequently, it's to check a box on my list, don't have a long barrel DA .45 Colt and am not asking for heirloom quality or match grade accuracy.

That is terrible accuracy in my opinion.

Longer barrel will rarely make a gun more accurate. Yes, it may be easier for you to shoot accurately, but an extra 3" of barrel length will not cut your group size in half.

If anything, the shorter cylinder might, in theory, provide better accuracy than the longer cylinder.

Since you already own one, you know the strengths and weaknesses. For 45 Colt use, I would suggest the shorter cylinder.

[Pumpkin]

Don’t know about the Taurus but my son’s Governor (3” barrel? ) shoots Hornady 185 Flex Tips better than any other 45 Colt or ACP load we have tried. Accuracy at 15yds is very acceptable,
2-1/2 410’s (#6, #4, whatever) will blow a rattlers head off.

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin

Don’t know about the Taurus but my son’s Governor (3” barrel? ) shoots Hornady 185 Flex Tips better than any other 45 Colt or ACP load we have tried. Accuracy at 15yds is very acceptable,
2-1/2 410’s (#6, #4, whatever) will blow a rattlers head off.

Was that 185gr load in .45 Colt or ACP?

[Pumpkin]

45 Colt, didn’t expect such a short bullet to shoot this well.
Much better than 45 ACP 230gr Ball.

[TruthTellers]

Oddly enough, when shooting the short barrel Judge, I found that .45 Schofield was more accurate and consistent and I'm figuring that's because the shorter case burns the powder charge better than .45 Colt does.

[44 AMP]

Oddly enough, when shooting the short barrel Judge, I found that .45 Schofield was more accurate and consistent and I'm figuring that's because the shorter case burns the powder charge better than .45 Colt does.

I find it difficult to believe the difference of 0.176" (max lengths) is making that much of a difference. Are you shooting the same bullet from the Schofield and the .45 Colt??

Always consider the possibility that your results might just be a quirk of your gun and the ammo used and might not apply to anyone else.

I have read people saying they got "good" or at least acceptable accuracy shooting .45 Colt from their combo pistols, despite the long bullet jump.

That was not the case for me, but its not impossible.

[lee n. field]

Originally Posted by TruthTellers

Bouncing around the idea of getting a Judge with the 6.5 inch barrel length and at that size the option of a cylinder chambered for 3 inch .410 is available; Taurus calls these the Judge Magnum.

On one hand the ability is nice, but the little extra shot is going to be spun all the same and the 000 Buck loads just mean I get one extra pellet and the Judge Magnum would weigh either 8 or 16 ounces more (confusing data on their website). The pro and con to that is the Judge Magnum is less fun to carry vs a standard Judge, but recoil is tamed and more enjoyable to shoot.

However, I'm not really looking at these long barrel Judges to shoot .410 from them, I'm more interested in them to shoot .45 Colt. That being the case, which would you guys choose?

There is also a difference in price, the Judge Magnum is about $50 more than the standard Judge.

Agree with Bill DeShivs -- much rather have a revolver made for .45 Cult. (Which, they kinda do make now.)

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by lee n. field

Agree with Bill DeShivs -- much rather have a revolver made for .45 Cult. (Which, they kinda do make now.)

I've said multiple times I want double action and other than Taurus and Charter there's nothing in .45 Colt that is that for under a grand brand new.

Furthermore, the question I'm asking isn't about whether to get the Judge or not, it's between the two different cylinder lengths which is the better one to get. I've yet to see anyone recommend or suggest the 3 inch cylinder.

[Forte S+W]

Cylinder length shouldn't make any meaningful difference in accuracy because the cylinders on the Taurus Judge are choked down past the length of .45 Colt cartridge cases so that .454 Cassul or .460 S&W won't chamber.

The reason why the Judge is less accurate than say a Single Action Army clone is due to the shallow rifling in the barrel.

My brother owns a 2.5" chambered Judge and I own a 3" chambered Judge and I've noticed no appreciable difference in accuracy between the two. They both seem to group about the same with .45 Colt.

One thing that I will say is that when it comes to .410 Shotshells is that ordinary .410 Shotgun ammo is going to pattern terribly regardless of what cylinder length you shoot it from because it was designed to be fired from shotguns with 18"+ barrels. So if you plan on using .410 Shotshells for any purpose in which accuracy is required, then buy premium ammunition that was designed for handguns. .410 Handgun ammo performances dramatically better in every respect becase it was actually designed for short barrels and thus uses faster burning powder and shotcups for improved accuracy as well as terminal performance.
Federal Premium .410 Handgun is my personal favorite because it uses a variation of the Federal Flitecontrol wad to help keep the shot pattern tight.

[44 AMP]

The reason why the Judge is less accurate than say a Single Action Army clone is due to the shallow rifling in the barrel.

Don't overlook the fact that the .45 Colt bullet has to "jump" the extra length of the .410 cylinder before entering the barrel and reaching the rifling.

And the fact that normal .410 ammo isn't just made to perform best in 18" or longer barrel lengths, but also its made for shotgun barrels. Smooth bore, NO Rifling.

Federal law requires handguns to be rifled, and since the .410 wad does form a gas seal the rifling will spin it, to some degree. There's no getting around that with conventional ammo.

[Pumpkin]

Short revolver barrels work best for shot or shotgun shells. Less travel down the rifling limits the amount of spin imparted on the shot. I have had very good results from 2" or so 38 spl revolvers over the years, max 10' or so.
My son's Governor also does well with 2-1/2" .410's.

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by Forte S+W

Cylinder length shouldn't make any meaningful difference in accuracy because the cylinders on the Taurus Judge are choked down past the length of .45 Colt cartridge cases so that .454 Cassul or .460 S&W won't chamber.

The reason why the Judge is less accurate than say a Single Action Army clone is due to the shallow rifling in the barrel.

My brother owns a 2.5" chambered Judge and I own a 3" chambered Judge and I've noticed no appreciable difference in accuracy between the two. They both seem to group about the same with .45 Colt.

One thing that I will say is that when it comes to .410 Shotshells is that ordinary .410 Shotgun ammo is going to pattern terribly regardless of what cylinder length you shoot it from because it was designed to be fired from shotguns with 18"+ barrels. So if you plan on using .410 Shotshells for any purpose in which accuracy is required, then buy premium ammunition that was designed for handguns. .410 Handgun ammo performances dramatically better in every respect becase it was actually designed for short barrels and thus uses faster burning powder and shotcups for improved accuracy as well as terminal performance.
Federal Premium .410 Handgun is my personal favorite because it uses a variation of the Federal Flitecontrol wad to help keep the shot pattern tight.

Thank you for the info on the different cylinder lengths and how they group. I had suspected that the extra half inch didn't make much of a difference on paper, now I'm wondering if there was a difference in velocity. You didn't happen to chronograph any of this, did you?

That reduction in diameter in the chambers is only going from .482 down to .472, not to .457, which while larger than what's best for a .452 bullet is still closer than .472 is.

I've been thinking about sending Taurus an email to ask them about offering a Judge with a spare .45 Colt only cylinder that has the proper chambers and throat diameters. I won't fix the rifling issues, but it can improve velocities as no gas will be blowing by the bullet like it currently does in all Judges and that will improve consistency with the powder burn and bullet alignment to the bore which should improve accuracy.

Taurus seems to be willing to make every iteration of the Judge they can, so I don't see why they wouldn't throw in a spare cylinder for an extra $100.

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

I find it difficult to believe the difference of 0.176" (max lengths) is making that much of a difference. Are you shooting the same bullet from the Schofield and the .45 Colt??

Always consider the possibility that your results might just be a quirk of your gun and the ammo used and might not apply to anyone else.

I have read people saying they got "good" or at least acceptable accuracy shooting .45 Colt from their combo pistols, despite the long bullet jump.

That was not the case for me, but its not impossible.

Yes, I shot the same bullets. The accuracy improvement was most noticeable with the Ruger Redhawk I have, while for the Judge the only .45 Colt load that was more accurate than Schofield was with a 250gr full wadcutter.

I've pretty much gone straight to using .45 Schofield for all standard pressure loadings and save the Colt brass for higher power loadings for the Redhawk or for round ball loads.

[44 AMP]

One of the few joys of the modern era is being able to get brass and often ammo for rounds that had been long out of production but are being made again now (or were before the panicdemic...).

I've often read the Schoefield is an accurate cartridge, but never having had a gun that needed it, I never tried it. In that regard, its like the .44 Special, for me. I have guns that can use it, but none that need it, so I never bothered to get any (or much, I think I have a partial box of .44Spl somewhere, that someone gave me, ....)

[TruthTellers]

The .45 Colt is much closer to .44 Magnum in terms of case capacity, yet is far lower in pressure meaning less powder has to be used. This means there's more air inside the case and that leads to inconsistent ignition. When we're sticking to standard pressures for the .45, the Schofield has the advantage as it has less air in the case than .45 Colt will and that I believe improves efficiency.

This dynamic is only present in .45 Colt because it is effectively a Magnum caliber in terms of case capacity, but is loaded to pressures that are even lower than that of the Special calibers.

[44 AMP]

The original loading for the .45 Colt was 40gr of black powder, in the original balloon head cases. Zero airspace. Modern solid head cases won't hold quite that much, somewhere around 38gr, I think.

The .45 Colt is much closer to .44 Magnum in terms of case capacity,

I would say it the other way, as the .45 Colt is much, much older than the .44 Magnum, but that's just me.

[44caliberkid]

Has anyone ever tried loading a 45 Colt bullet in the end of a 410 case, with maybe wads or filler between the powder charge and the bullet. That would reduce the jump between the case and the forcing cone.