Who's got the best one out there?

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Hawg Haggen:

Next year they're doing away with primitive weapons altogether on private lands. I know it doesn't give anything to the question

Aah!! We all know your a died in the wool Traditionalist boot leggin an extra bump on your score here on my thread Hawg. And that's always OK. But now you got my attention on what you mentioned. Just what is the deal going on down there in Mississippi concerning primitive weapons on private lands? I hope you'll elaborate some on that please?

[4V50 Gary]

Want range and a heavy bullet? Get a Parker Hale Enfield and shoot 535 grain minie balls.

[woodnbow]

Or find a .45 caliber Parker Hale Volunteer or Whitworth rifle and shoot 500 grain slugs like it's a .45-100-500...

[Hawg]

Well sure shot for the last few years all that's required has been a breech loading single shot cartridge rifle with an external hammer of a type in use before 1899 with a caliber of 35 or larger. Smokeless powder and scopes of any magnification are allowed. The H&R Handi Rifle in 35 Whelen and 45-70 have been real popular but starting in the 2014 season you can use the same rifles you use in regular season on private lands. Public lands will still have the old rules. We also do not have deer tags and you can take 8 deer per year with three being bucks. The downside is they have to have a main beam of thirteen inches or an inside spread of 10 inches. Personally I don't think we have enough deer to warrant such drastic changes. Did I elaborate enough for you?

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Did I elaborate enough for you?: Yaw you sure did Hawg. Private land anything goes now. Public Land still requires a break/open single. No tags and 8 deer a yr. per license. 5-doe and 3-bucks. (That's allot of meat.)
A few years of that type of hunting. You'll be lucky to see any let alone get one. I wonder how your politicians managed to get that Ruling passed for the private land owners? (Modern magazine feed rifles used on private lands. During M/L season. Ain't that something._.)

[Hawg]

(Modern magazine feed rifles used on private lands. During M/L season. Ain't that something._.)

It hasn't been muzzle loading season in many years. I think they changed it to primitive weapons when they first allowed inlines with scopes. When I was a kid we had tags and could only take one doe per year and that on just one day out of the season. Now there's no record and nobody knows how many deer you kill.

[Doyle]

Hawg and Mc Gee, there is one more part of the MS equation. The "choice of firearm" bill specifically applies to the late-season primitive weapons days. It doesn't appear to affect any of the early-season primitive weapons days.

I've been following this development carefully because my wife just accepted a faculty position at MSU. I'll be moving her up there in time for Summer term and I'll follow sometime later - probably early 2014.

I'm going to be selling my Encore 209x50 barrel and picking up either a .35Whelen or 45-70 barrel (or maybe both ).

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Well I guess, all any of us can do is just play by the Rules and move on to enjoy the sport as best we can. (No doubt November 8th 2016 is on it's way)

I got a couple question fellows.
In the inline models. I've read there are some rifles that have a (closed) breech. Just what is a closed breech? Is there a benefit of having one in my rifle?

S/S

[NoSecondBest]

A closed breech is where the bolt closes just like on any bolt action center fire rifle and the primer is covered by the bolt. The primer is not exposed to the elements much the same as the primer end of a regular cartridge. I'd guess this is an advantage although I've never had anyone tell me their primer didn't fire due to getting snow or rain on it. Common sense would indicate that getting snow or rain on the primer might cause a problem. Most all of the in-lines now days cover the primer whether by the bolt of by pivoting the barrel into place.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Doyle: I'm glade you threaded that personal highlight here. So, "Congratulations on your wife's acceptance to MSU Sir." S/S

Hey Savage guys!!
Just some good news to bring up. I just happened to find a Savage model 10 ML II w/ Accu trigger (new/camo) for >649.00 cash & carry. To those who own or have owned one. Are there any unforeseen problems or disappointments I may encounter if I were to purchase one?
Honestly I don't know all that much on the subject of inline rifles. (as you all probably can tell) But, the versatility of this rifle really intrigues me. I'm relying heavily here on your knowledge and opinions.

S/S

[NoSecondBest]

There are NO problems with them that I've ever heard of. Parts are available from several sources such as spare vent liners and breech plugs. You can still get laminated stocks for them from the same source. I believe Savage will make limited runs of these guns every few years but it's just not a big enough seller to carry and catalog inventory all the time. They've already brought them back once due to demand for more and they aren't that hard to build.

[4V50 Gary]

The trouble with the Whitworth or Volunteer is that they're prima donnas. You have to spend a lot of time to learn how they shoot and what shoots best in them. That's why I'll take a 500 yard range Enfield (which in the hands of a good shot will reach out to 1,000).

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Curious. What is the difference between the Savage model 10 ML and their new ML II series. Other than their trigger works. Were there any other changes made?

I've heard here and there out at a rifle range Savage had problems with their first issue of ML 10s. Anyone know what those issues were?

S/S

[Hawg]

I know some of the II's blew up.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

I know some of the II's blew up.

Well shoot!! that dampens things a bit no doubt. Would you care to elaborate some on what you've heard Sir?~~~Gee's!! I better not sell my Hawken's quite yet.

[airbrnpig]

I love the side deals going on! For what its worth, I got to shoot a range of mls b/c the family loves to shoot, have a bunch of mls and the one that no one had - I bought. a tc omega. shot it and traded it to my brother and bought the accurate v2. Again - better fit. Now I wish someone in the family had a savage! Really like the accurate v2 so far. Anyone covert to bh209 with the new breech plug? Trying to talk myself into making the change...but new powder, primers, plug....love the ease of pellets (use 777s).

Cummins - your selling your apex?? You helped me make the decision to go to cva! Ha!

Great thread s/s. You any closer on your pick?

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Great thread s/s. You any closer on your pick?

well I was doing pretty good until Hawg Haggen tripped me up just a few minuets ago. Still waiting for his feed back about the Savage model 10 ML. Then Wap41 hooked me up with a Missouri made pretty Austin & Halleck. But I suspect the Halleck will indeed capture big bucks since its new in the box. (much higher than my budget allows.) I also have another deal on going with another member here. But I don't care to mention who or what its all about (Not quite yet anyways) There are just so many rifles> its really hard to confirm a choice airbrnpig. As anyone would try to do. This will be my first inline and I want to do it right the first time. Thanks for asking airbrnpig.

S/S

[Hawg]

Well shoot!! that dampens things a bit no doubt. Would you care to elaborate some on what you've heard Sir?~~~Gee's!! I better not sell my Hawken's quite yet

I just remember hearing about some blowing up. I think its from around the same time period as the CVA's were blowing up.

I did a google search and had a lot of hits but its mostly the same couple of stories.

http://www.shootersforum.com/muzzlel...l-blow-up.html

http://www.tonyrogers.com/humor/muzzleloader_blowup.htm

[Doyle]

When using smokeless powder in a Savage ML, you have to remember that smokeless powder is MUUUUUUUUUCH more sensitive to relatively small charge weight changes than black powder. If you overcharge by 10 gr of 777 or Pyrodex, no big deal. You might get bad grouping and a bigger kick but no real harm. None of the modern muzzleloaders will be harmed by that kind of change. However, that same overcharge in smokeless powder (or the choice of the wrong burning rate powder) could mean the difference in loosing or keeping your face.

I think this is the biggest reason that other manufacturers have not gotten into the same smokeless deal that Savage did - there are too many idiots out there that would increase their product liability.

[Wild Bill Bucks]

randywakeman.com/HowToBlowUpASavage10ML.htm


I disagree with Randy on a few things, and he is very PRO Savage, but I have read several articles on this matter, and I think he is telling it correctly on this one.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Holy Mackerel Hawg. By one (1.) grain of power over what He was shooting earlier without any problems caused all that damage to a very knowledgeable shooter.
"Gee's the way I shake I'd have no problems at all blowing one up."

And those gruesome looking photo's of that poor guys hand. Well I guess after reading those two links my being intrigued by the Savage 10ML II _ "is an affair that soured!!"__ But being I have more Irons in the fire than Savage alone. I'm still thinking positive here guys. So fellows here's a another chance to persuade me to follow a more appropriate direction. Perhaps a little info about your experiences in experimentation with the front stuffer you tote? Will cause me to ponder some again for another look see.

P. Script: Thanks Hawg. Appreciate the Links.

S/S

[Wild Bill Bucks]

Sorry I can't figure out a way to put the links up where they can be clicked onto. Just not very sharp on a computer yet, but let me say that almost any rifle can be forced to blow up given the right amount of overload.

The reason I bought my Savage to start with, was a guy at the range had bought one, and was shooting it for the first time while I was there with my Encore, getting ready for deer season. I watched him put Vit 110 in the rifle with a powder measure that he had from his black powder rifle. It measured at 90 grains. This was an obvious overload, but as I knew nothing about the guns at that time (and evidently he didn't either) I said nothing to him as he shoved a sabot and bullet down the barrel, and primed the gun. When he pulled the trigger there was an explosion and re-coil that kicked him completely off of the bench, and sent the rifle to the ground, landing on the concrete floor. It was obvious to everyone present that there had been something done terribly wrong, and after examination of the shooter and the rifle, we could not find anything wrong with the rifle. The shooter did not fare as well as his nose was bloodied and had a black eye. At this point he drug the instruction manuel out and quickly realized that he had more than doubled the amount of powder that should have been used for a round through the rifle and he re-loaded it with the 42 grains that should have been used to start with, and the rifle shot flawlessly for the next 2 hours.

After that day I started saving my money to get me one, and have shot no telling how many rounds through mine with no problems. I would be very skeptical about comments made by dis-gruntled ex-employees or people who have recklessly loaded this rifle with loads that are not recommended. As stated before, almost any rifle can be made to blow up if it is not used as intended.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Wild Bill Bucks

That sir was a good story. How he managed to double charge the rifle and get away with it. (Somebody was watching over him no doubt about that.)
Question Sir: Do you happen to know if his rifle was a first production or the newer ML II model?
By the way I went and read that link you posted earlier. randywakeman.com/HowToBlowUpASavage10ML.htm The way I interrupted this link. There sure was nothing good said in behalf of Toby Bridges. And that was good of you to point us to that link.
Well Sir. Since you actually seen a serious mistake made in charging a Savage. And the result's were no where's near Mr. Bridges outcome with a single grain overcharge as he claimed. That sir stirs my curiosity. Do I believe you? or Toby Bridges?~~~~ I'm going with you!!
The way I see it. If Savage did make a product that was truly easy to destroy by its owner as Toby Bridges implied. Savage would be sued to no end. And the product would be gone from the market place. But that hasn't happen with their Savage model 10 ML II.
I was a little forward with the language I used here. I apologize, as I'm old & Old School. The older I get the harder it is for me to show some of that Northern Charm I once had._

[Hawg]

I don't like Toby Bridges but Randy Wakeman is the worst thing to happen to bp in 900 years. Don't ask me to elaborate sure shot.

[mykeal]

^Hear him. He speaks wisely.