|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
March 12, 2012, 06:50 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 9, 2011
Location: Land of the Free
Posts: 2,834
|
Church carry and the federal gun free zone?
Hi, I know federal law says no guns in buildings that are k-12grade.
My question is what if a church does not list they are a k-2grade, how does one prove if you were on school grounds? if there is no clearly marked signs to make it a school. All the bilboard outside says PRESCHOOL, and no signs or anything inside about being kindergarden. A church I am going to now just says preschool and I found no info on their website about kindergarden)federal applies to K+ not preschool(. |
March 12, 2012, 09:00 PM | #2 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 17, 2005
Location: Swamp dweller
Posts: 6,187
|
Quote:
__________________
NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be. |
|
March 12, 2012, 09:21 PM | #3 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: January 9, 2011
Location: Land of the Free
Posts: 2,834
|
Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Fre...es_Act_of_1990 Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 "K-12grade" school buildings, like public schools/private schools etc.. Last edited by 9mm; March 12, 2012 at 10:03 PM. |
||
March 12, 2012, 10:56 PM | #4 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 23, 2006
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 3,073
|
Quote:
__________________
Need a FFL in Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me. $20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers) Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE |
|
March 13, 2012, 12:26 AM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 9, 2011
Location: Land of the Free
Posts: 2,834
|
............. You cannot carry a gun into a place that is a school ............ = illegal.
|
March 13, 2012, 02:44 AM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 27, 2008
Posts: 2,199
|
Yeah, wikipedia is not a preferred source, but notice what the letter says...
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...ccw.pdf&page=1 |
March 13, 2012, 06:41 AM | #7 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 17, 2005
Location: Swamp dweller
Posts: 6,187
|
I will not estimate a percentage of us that would violate the gun free school zone law. I do it daily which I do NOT violated because of the following and for the non-believers the following,
Quote:
In closing I'll ask how many members have drove by a school, college campus, church with a school? Many a street I travel passes within 1,000 ft of a school. I would say that reading it on the Internet leaves something to be desired as to what is truth or myth.
__________________
NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be. |
|
March 13, 2012, 09:51 AM | #8 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 11,061
|
I would HIGHLY recommend anyone deciding to carry on school property talk to an attorney who knows firearm laws.
The law was amended after Lopez and since amended has not been over turned. There are exceptions, your attorney can give you the best advice regarding those exceptions. One exception that is simple to understand is: Quote:
That simple plan (according to every attorney I've talked to) would make it hard for any prosecutor to go after you. But, as I said, talk to an attorney. It could save you a lot of heart ache. Remember right, wrong, or indifferent, its gonna cost you a mint in attorney fees to fight the charge. The question is, IS IT WORTH IT.
__________________
Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071 |
|
March 13, 2012, 10:20 AM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 27, 2010
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 2,905
|
I know that here in Virginia, a CHL holder can be armed on school property while picking up or dropping off kids, as long as s/he stays in the car.
|
March 13, 2012, 10:48 AM | #10 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 8, 2000
Location: SLC,Utah
Posts: 2,704
|
Quote:
|
|
March 13, 2012, 10:49 AM | #11 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 22, 2011
Location: OKC
Posts: 502
|
Quote:
|
|
March 13, 2012, 01:17 PM | #12 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 9, 2011
Location: Land of the Free
Posts: 2,834
|
@ Don, I ment in buildings. It is legal to leave a pistol/rifle in my state locked in your car on school grounds(parking lot) just not in the buildings(federal)
Quote:
|
|
March 13, 2012, 04:57 PM | #13 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 23, 2006
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 3,073
|
Quote:
__________________
Need a FFL in Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me. $20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers) Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE |
|
March 13, 2012, 06:39 PM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 24, 2011
Posts: 730
|
Guns and schools are all regulated by the states. The individual states have differing views on what is acceptable, and what is not.
In WA, there are situations where you can carry into a school building, without a license, and situations where you may not, even with a license. As for a school in a church? The building is a church, and it may be also used at times as a school...I don't think that qualifies as a "school" under even the stupid unconstitutional federal law, when class is not in session. RCW 9.41.280 for Washington State |
March 15, 2012, 05:59 AM | #15 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 3,112
|
Quote:
OK students are allowed long guns in locked vehicles on school grounds. |
|
March 15, 2012, 06:54 AM | #16 |
Member
Join Date: March 3, 2009
Posts: 26
|
Seems funny that even with these lame laws, we still have kids carrying guns to school and shooting people. Here in OH we just had an incident in Chardon but we are not here to discuss silly politics. The church that I attend also has a K-12 school. The church and the school are separate, detached buildings. There is about 12 members that have their CCW but only about 4 of us carry on a regular basis. Our pastor and a few of the staff know who those people are. A few of the CCW holders are staff. As long as the pastor is informed and is comfortable with you carrying it is legal to carry in a church. My children at one time did attend the school. When I would pick them up or be on school grounds, I did carry. If I would attend a sporting event or other function that I was going to be in the school building, I would secure my weapon in the car. If I was their to pick them up, I continued to carry.
|
March 16, 2012, 10:00 AM | #17 |
Junior member
Join Date: November 12, 2000
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 9,494
|
A church isn't school and even if they do teach a little, the government has this separation thing from church and state, remember? A church is not the Governments jurisdiction.
|
March 16, 2012, 11:41 AM | #18 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 8, 2000
Location: SLC,Utah
Posts: 2,704
|
Quote:
To the point, 18 USC 921 contains the following definitions: Quote:
|
||
March 16, 2012, 09:35 PM | #19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 11, 2009
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 360
|
just a thought.I would think if the church is all so a school you would not be able to carry while its a school.( the hours its running as a school )other than that then its a church.
in SC its ok to carry while in the parking lot.as long as you do not have to enter or go into you can carry.if I had to go through a fence like for a football game I cannot carry.but if I could watch the game from outside the fence I would be OK. there is one school here that can put you into a bit of a pickle.it has a fence around three sides of it.so one has to draw fake lines in front of it from both sides of the building.by doing this you can only carry in the parking lot.I can say that there is another school I can carry all the way around the school.it has no fence what so ever or gate to pass through. one just has to have a good clear mine to their state laws along with the Federal laws.
__________________
life is great but its better when you can own as many guns you wish to own.for me I haven't bought enough yet. |
March 18, 2012, 12:29 AM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 29, 2005
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 101
|
I guess find a lawyer who knows about these things?
The Federal law in question pretty much bans the possession of guns within 1000 feet of school property, and only makes some limited exceptions for those with permits issued by the state in which the school exists. From what I've read, it doesn't appear to matter if it is a public or private school, or if it is after school hours or school is in session. It may even apply to home schools.
If the church's school is not covered by the Federal law, then you can start being worried about the state's law.
__________________
Patrick |
March 20, 2012, 09:27 PM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: The Bluegrass
Posts: 9,142
|
The most serious problem with this statute, IMO, is the 1,000 foot restriction. It is much too easy be within a thousand feet of a school and not even know it. If the Supreme Court ever gets around to better defining the standard of review in firearm cases, this specific restriction might just fall.
|
March 20, 2012, 11:38 PM | #22 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 8, 2000
Location: SLC,Utah
Posts: 2,704
|
Quote:
|
|
March 21, 2012, 12:41 AM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 5, 2011
Posts: 801
|
In Florida, school property is a no no, even if licensed for CC.
I wish we had the "dropping off/picking up exception, but we don't as far as I know. At my kids schools, there are "no weapons" signs posted at every pedestrian and drive entrance......it's pretty clear here, so I don't do it. I'm sure since they don't let me carry there that there must be a plan to protect me, such as a violence reacting automaton such as from the movie "war of the worlds" that will appear and save the day.... As far as churches, you can carry, no prob....and I do. |
March 21, 2012, 05:32 PM | #24 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: The Bluegrass
Posts: 9,142
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|