True or untrue. NOT done in competition with Jeager106's post.

Gaz_in_NZ · June 9, 2014, 01:27 AM

After posting looking for facts on Chain Detonation, filler 'n' grease and 11's vs 10's what's the real difference?? and I got some good replies... however, below I have seen these ALL written down and published as actual fact :-
So which are and which aren't???

Cleaning a BP revolver.
Use a dishwasher
Strip down the revolver and put the frame and cylinder into a dishwasher.
Then after cleaning the gun, dry it well and apply a coat of oil.
Not sure how the main spring and all the screws and pins would cope with that after every shoot!!

Load each chamber in the cylinder one at a time:
Pour in powder
Pour in the filler
Put a ball into the mouth of the chamber
Ram ball into chamber ball must be level with top of cylinder
Place grease over ball
See below...

Don’t forget that the ball needs to be flush with the front of the cylinder so you may need to use a filler.
Does it need to be flush? if so then why will the loading rod push one down nearly 1/4 of an inch into the cylinder?

The shooter who has problems with caps falling off the nipples could purchase No. 10 caps, or replace the nipples with a larger size that will work with the No. 11 caps...
Or "Oval" the No 11 cap by gently pinching the cap with thin nosed pliers.
I feel that "Oval" caps are a Chain Detonation just waiting to happen...

Sorry to keep harping on about all this but I'd like to be able to feel like I was doing it right and safe and that the "facts" I was telling a prospective new BP shooter and we have 3 possible converts since my son and myself started shooting BP at "normal" shooting times at the club rather than at the end when most of the whingers and complainers have gone home, I would like to feel that what I was telling them on How It's Done wasn't either unnecessary and/or possibly dangerous.

Isn't there somewhere all this is written down with just facts and not the plethora of internet C&P that eventually becomes fact ('cause they wouldn't let you put it on the internet/Wiki if it wasn't true) and old wives tales?

Cheers and sorry to be a bit of a bore on this one
Thanks
Gaz

44 Dave · June 9, 2014, 06:27 AM

[/QUOTE]Not sure how the main spring and all the screws and pins would cope with that after every shoot!![/QUOTE]
I picked up a gun for not much $, "with problems" because not ALL of the water got "dried".
There are places where moisture hides.

Doc Hoy · June 9, 2014, 06:48 AM

...from the cleaning operation, if, after it is cleaned, you place it in an oven at about 275 for about half an hour.

It also works better if you take the pistol more completely apart. I am a pretty fastidious pistol cleaner and I don't have problems with corrosion. Nipples come out of the cylinder every time a clean. Trigger guard comes off so I can see inside.

I oil it while it is still almost too hot to handle which (in my simple mind) decreases the viscosity of the Rem oil and permits it to go places it would not reach if the revolver were at room temperature.

I don't clean the pistol in a dishwasher although I do admit it is a pretty good idea if, as the poster stated, the moisture can be completely removed.

Doc Hoy · June 9, 2014, 06:55 AM

....If you are loading the cylinder while it is in the pistol I would really see no other way.

Imagine five or six chambers w/ powder and nothing to make it stay put and then a stiff breeze comes along. Or the pistol tips off of the loading stand.

I suppose that if the wad was a snug fit (BTW, as a rule I don't use wads, but I acknowledge there are those who won't shoot without them.) then the wad in the chamber might hold the powder without a ball.

Doc Hoy · June 9, 2014, 07:04 AM

I don't do it any more but I do acknowledge there are some very experienced shooters who pinch caps all day long without a problem. It was, I believe, the source of my one and only chainfire event since about 1975.

Others on the forum will declare that some of my practices are foolhearty and I don't dispute them. But pinching caps (to me) is too dangerous for one obvious reason.

As the reference says, pinching a cap gives the skirt of the cap an oval shape. That oval shape must mate with the round shape of the nipple. Just too much chance of hot gasses getting into the nearby chambers through the opening that is created by the fact that the oval cap does not properly seal with the round nipple.

Another poster mentioned the nipple length conundrum. Nipples that are too long place the cap close enough to the recoil shield (chambers not in battery) that there is a chance that the backward force on the cylinder will cause contact between the cap and the recoil shield setting off the cap and the chamber. (Sorry for just restating what the other poster said.

bushmaster65 · June 9, 2014, 07:10 AM

hey again...

I have not seen anything other than general instruction sheets that cover loading procedures. however, there are some on this site that have resource material that I think would rival the library of congress so get ready for a lot of info heading your way.

as far as cleaning, I think that's going to be a procedure that best fits YOUR resources, time, cleaning habits, etc.
I used to take hours cleaning with Balistol and solvents and oils and it got to where I really dreaded taking out more than one pistol to the range at a time. I finally tried HOT water with small amount of dish soap and WD40. I only clean the barrel and frame this way and brush/wipe the internal parts at my leisure while the WD40 does its work. I have cut my cleaning time dramatically and actually obtain much better results.

I concur with your opinion about pinching caps. I have a list of which pistol takes which # cap and don't shoot if I don't have the correct size. Unfortunately, my first pistol, a Uberti Walker had nipples that were actually a mix of #10 and #11. Go Figure...

Doc Hoy · June 9, 2014, 07:13 AM

You could probably find conflicting written material on nearly every topic associated with BP shooting. As an example, the Lyman BP Handbook of some years ago has a photo of a shooter loading a chamber in the revolver using a flask. Many shooters believe this practice is highly dangerous when the revolver has been previously fired and simply won't do it. They use a scoop or other single charge device instead and I must admit that, while a flask can be used safely in a hot revolver, it does present more danger than a scoop in some circumstances. An inexperienced shooter should use a scoop and the Lyman Manual doesn't present any form of disclaimer about the practice. (My point precisely is that this primary source nearly memorized by every serious BP shooter shows a practice which many consider to be very dangerous.)

I would advise the use of common sense but indeed common sense decisions rest upon information which a new shooter simply does not possess.

You are right to look for written authority. But I think you are also very well advised to do precisely what you are doing right now. Come to these experts (which I do not consider myself, since I don't shoot nearly as much as these guys do.) and pick their brains. Read carefully what they are saying and then apply the common sense spoken of above. Where there is a gap in the knowledge, ere on the side of caution until you are certain that a practice can be applied safely. A good practice might be to try the suggestion with a dry revolver. Actually go through the motions analyzing each step. Your brain will tell you if it will work safely for you.

maillemaker · June 9, 2014, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Cleaning a BP revolver.
Use a dishwasher
Strip down the revolver and put the frame and cylinder into a dishwasher.
Then after cleaning the gun, dry it well and apply a coat of oil.
Not sure how the main spring and all the screws and pins would cope with that after every shoot!!

I remove the grips from my guns so that all metal parts can be submerged in soapy water. If you use proper-fitting screwdrivers, you should not have a problem with your screws. That said, I've buggered some myself.

I don't disassemble the trigger/lock components except every 5 shootings or so.

I used compressed air to blast all parts dry after cleaning and rinsing.

You don't have to disassemble the gun to clean it. You can take your time with patches, and a shop rag, and Q-tips and do a fine job. It just takes longer.

Quote:

Load each chamber in the cylinder one at a time:
Pour in powder
Pour in the filler
Put a ball into the mouth of the chamber
Ram ball into chamber ball must be level with top of cylinder
Place grease over ball
See below...

Don’t forget that the ball needs to be flush with the front of the cylinder so you may need to use a filler.
Does it need to be flush? if so then why will the loading rod push one down nearly 1/4 of an inch into the cylinder?

When loading on the gun, I load one at a time. When loading with a cylinder loading stand, I have loaded multiple cylinders simultaneously. Charge all, fill all, ball all, lube all.

The logic I was told about keeping the ball close to flush with the cylinder face was that the ball picks up less velocity before engaging the rifling. I don't know if it makes a difference or not. I have not experimented to find out. I apply charge, then filler, such that my ball ends up nearly flush with the cylinder face.

Quote:

The shooter who has problems with caps falling off the nipples could purchase No. 10 caps, or replace the nipples with a larger size that will work with the No. 11 caps...
Or "Oval" the No 11 cap by gently pinching the cap with thin nosed pliers.
I feel that "Oval" caps are a Chain Detonation just waiting to happen...

I have pinched caps before when I've had some ill-fitting caps, and not yet had a problem. However, I agree that any open path to the charge is probably asking for trouble.

Steve

jeager106 · June 9, 2014, 10:13 AM

Cleaning a black powder revolver is a p.i.t.a.
I've never tried the dishwasher thing. I clean mine with warm soapy water, after I disassemble it to basic components. I blow the water out with my small air compressor then put the parts on a cookie sheet, put in the oven at it's lowest setting (mine is 170 d.F.) for a while. This evaporates the water by heating the firearm all the way thru all the innderds but won't damage
grips or bother the temper in the springs.
Probably the are a number of ways to clean the thing.

g.willikers · June 9, 2014, 05:52 PM

^^^Exactly the way I do it, too.
It seems to be foolproof.

June 9, 2014, 06:48 AM	#3
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	You can be certain the pistol is free of water... ...from the cleaning operation, if, after it is cleaned, you place it in an oven at about 275 for about half an hour. It also works better if you take the pistol more completely apart. I am a pretty fastidious pistol cleaner and I don't have problems with corrosion. Nipples come out of the cylinder every time a clean. Trigger guard comes off so I can see inside. I oil it while it is still almost too hot to handle which (in my simple mind) decreases the viscosity of the Rem oil and permits it to go places it would not reach if the revolver were at room temperature. I don't clean the pistol in a dishwasher although I do admit it is a pretty good idea if, as the poster stated, the moisture can be completely removed. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

June 9, 2014, 06:55 AM	#4
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	As regards loading one at a time..... ....If you are loading the cylinder while it is in the pistol I would really see no other way. Imagine five or six chambers w/ powder and nothing to make it stay put and then a stiff breeze comes along. Or the pistol tips off of the loading stand. I suppose that if the wad was a snug fit (BTW, as a rule I don't use wads, but I acknowledge there are those who won't shoot without them.) then the wad in the chamber might hold the powder without a ball. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

June 9, 2014, 07:04 AM	#5
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	As regards pinching caps.... I don't do it any more but I do acknowledge there are some very experienced shooters who pinch caps all day long without a problem. It was, I believe, the source of my one and only chainfire event since about 1975. Others on the forum will declare that some of my practices are foolhearty and I don't dispute them. But pinching caps (to me) is too dangerous for one obvious reason. As the reference says, pinching a cap gives the skirt of the cap an oval shape. That oval shape must mate with the round shape of the nipple. Just too much chance of hot gasses getting into the nearby chambers through the opening that is created by the fact that the oval cap does not properly seal with the round nipple. Another poster mentioned the nipple length conundrum. Nipples that are too long place the cap close enough to the recoil shield (chambers not in battery) that there is a chance that the backward force on the cylinder will cause contact between the cap and the recoil shield setting off the cap and the chamber. (Sorry for just restating what the other poster said. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

June 9, 2014, 07:10 AM	#6
bushmaster65 Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2012 Location: Central Texas Posts: 140	hey again... I have not seen anything other than general instruction sheets that cover loading procedures. however, there are some on this site that have resource material that I think would rival the library of congress so get ready for a lot of info heading your way. as far as cleaning, I think that's going to be a procedure that best fits YOUR resources, time, cleaning habits, etc. I used to take hours cleaning with Balistol and solvents and oils and it got to where I really dreaded taking out more than one pistol to the range at a time. I finally tried HOT water with small amount of dish soap and WD40. I only clean the barrel and frame this way and brush/wipe the internal parts at my leisure while the WD40 does its work. I have cut my cleaning time dramatically and actually obtain much better results. I concur with your opinion about pinching caps. I have a list of which pistol takes which # cap and don't shoot if I don't have the correct size. Unfortunately, my first pistol, a Uberti Walker had nipples that were actually a mix of #10 and #11. Go Figure... __________________ "Why Johnny Ringo, you look like somebody just walked over your grave."

June 9, 2014, 07:13 AM	#7
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	As regards definitive written reference.... You could probably find conflicting written material on nearly every topic associated with BP shooting. As an example, the Lyman BP Handbook of some years ago has a photo of a shooter loading a chamber in the revolver using a flask. Many shooters believe this practice is highly dangerous when the revolver has been previously fired and simply won't do it. They use a scoop or other single charge device instead and I must admit that, while a flask can be used safely in a hot revolver, it does present more danger than a scoop in some circumstances. An inexperienced shooter should use a scoop and the Lyman Manual doesn't present any form of disclaimer about the practice. (My point precisely is that this primary source nearly memorized by every serious BP shooter shows a practice which many consider to be very dangerous.) I would advise the use of common sense but indeed common sense decisions rest upon information which a new shooter simply does not possess. You are right to look for written authority. But I think you are also very well advised to do precisely what you are doing right now. Come to these experts (which I do not consider myself, since I don't shoot nearly as much as these guys do.) and pick their brains. Read carefully what they are saying and then apply the common sense spoken of above. Where there is a gap in the knowledge, ere on the side of caution until you are certain that a practice can be applied safely. A good practice might be to try the suggestion with a dry revolver. Actually go through the motions analyzing each step. Your brain will tell you if it will work safely for you. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

June 9, 2014, 01:27 AM	#1
Gaz_in_NZ Senior Member Join Date: September 3, 2012 Location: 40 miles North of Wellington, NZ Posts: 196	True or untrue. NOT done in competition with Jeager106's post. After posting looking for facts on Chain Detonation, filler 'n' grease and 11's vs 10's what's the real difference?? and I got some good replies... however, below I have seen these ALL written down and published as actual fact :- So which are and which aren't??? Cleaning a BP revolver. Use a dishwasher Strip down the revolver and put the frame and cylinder into a dishwasher. Then after cleaning the gun, dry it well and apply a coat of oil. Not sure how the main spring and all the screws and pins would cope with that after every shoot!! Load each chamber in the cylinder one at a time: Pour in powder Pour in the filler Put a ball into the mouth of the chamber Ram ball into chamber ball must be level with top of cylinder Place grease over ball See below... Don’t forget that the ball needs to be flush with the front of the cylinder so you may need to use a filler. Does it need to be flush? if so then why will the loading rod push one down nearly 1/4 of an inch into the cylinder? The shooter who has problems with caps falling off the nipples could purchase No. 10 caps, or replace the nipples with a larger size that will work with the No. 11 caps... Or "Oval" the No 11 cap by gently pinching the cap with thin nosed pliers. I feel that "Oval" caps are a Chain Detonation just waiting to happen... Sorry to keep harping on about all this but I'd like to be able to feel like I was doing it right and safe and that the "facts" I was telling a prospective new BP shooter and we have 3 possible converts since my son and myself started shooting BP at "normal" shooting times at the club rather than at the end when most of the whingers and complainers have gone home, I would like to feel that what I was telling them on How It's Done wasn't either unnecessary and/or possibly dangerous. Isn't there somewhere all this is written down with just facts and not the plethora of internet C&P that eventually becomes fact ('cause they wouldn't let you put it on the internet/Wiki if it wasn't true) and old wives tales? Cheers and sorry to be a bit of a bore on this one Thanks Gaz

June 9, 2014, 06:27 AM	#2
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	[/QUOTE]Not sure how the main spring and all the screws and pins would cope with that after every shoot!![/QUOTE] I picked up a gun for not much $, "with problems" because not ALL of the water got "dried". There are places where moisture hides.

June 9, 2014, 10:13 AM	#9
jeager106 Junior member Join Date: November 24, 2006 Location: N.E. Oh. Posts: 527	Cleaning a black powder revolver is a p.i.t.a. I've never tried the dishwasher thing. I clean mine with warm soapy water, after I disassemble it to basic components. I blow the water out with my small air compressor then put the parts on a cookie sheet, put in the oven at it's lowest setting (mine is 170 d.F.) for a while. This evaporates the water by heating the firearm all the way thru all the innderds but won't damage grips or bother the temper in the springs. Probably the are a number of ways to clean the thing.

June 9, 2014, 05:52 PM	#10
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	^^^Exactly the way I do it, too. It seems to be foolproof. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”