DRY FIRE - Page 2

coyota1 · August 30, 2012, 05:57 PM

Quote:

This is a forum. If you have information you can post it here - nobody wants to call you

I hope you are not speaking for me. I was planning on calling. Nothing wrong with a good old fashion telephone.

gwnorth · August 30, 2012, 06:00 PM

I've been dry firing center fire firearms (rifles and handguns) for 35 years and never known it to hurt a thing. In the Canadian forces dry firing (HiPowers and FN-FALs) was a standard training technique and was used a lot, especially with novice shooters prior to their first trip to the range line.

There are old US forces training videos online with scenes of soldiers routinely dry firing Garands as a training aid.

mr.t7024 · August 30, 2012, 06:38 PM

No need for anyone to get upset. I do not dry fire any of my rifles,pistols or shotguns. If someone wants to fine,be my guest. If you do not want to call that works for me. I do not do text,and I am not a prolific writer. So I wish all of you a great Labor Day Weekend and maybe we can all agree to vote against oslama... I mean Obama.

Cliff

thallub · August 30, 2012, 06:49 PM

i dry fire all my rifles except the rimfires. Been doing it for 60 years and have not damaged anything.

chucknbach · August 30, 2012, 07:48 PM

I can speak for an old Marlin/Glenfield model 25 .22 doesn't hurt it to dry fire it.

A bow is one you don't want to dry fire.

Quote:

If you do not want to call that works for me.

Don't want to call cause you don't have anything to say. Since you don't dry fire you have no experience. Probably just taught that as a kid and took it as gospel.

gwnorth · August 30, 2012, 07:54 PM

Quote:

No need for anyone to get upset. I do not dry fire any of my rifles,pistols or shotguns. If someone wants to fine,be my guest. If you do not want to call that works for me. I do not do text,and I am not a prolific writer. So I wish all of you a great Labor Day Weekend and maybe we can all agree to vote against oslama... I mean Obama. Cliff

Mr.t7024, don't think people are upset. But you post a categorical statement in all caps, with no explanation to substantiate why you say that, and given it flies completely in the face of a lot of people's own personal and professional experience with firearms, and people obviously wonder why you say that?

Tikirocker · August 30, 2012, 08:17 PM

CZ state in their own literature that it is safe to dry fire their .22 rifles. I have no hesitation in doing this, though I have come across people who had out of spec firing pins; ie firing pins that protrude past the bolt shoulder. This is a QC error at factory, but it serves to illustrate that it bears gauging your firing pins to ensure that they do not pass the bolt shoulder - the result of which in the case of dry firing would be undue wear, peening or worse.

The answer to CZ's position on dry firing their Rimfires lies in the above paragraph. From factory, and if correct, the CZ-452 firing pin when extended should remain below the bolt shoulder. The bolt shoulder encloses around the outside of the base of the casing and the shoulder itself meets the chamber face. The base of the case then sits slightly inside the bolt face where the firing pin strikes the primer - this is why the firing pin doesn't hit the chamber face.

I checked mine, and it is within spec and well below the shoulder. This should mean that I am fine to dry fire my .22 all day long, if I want to, without any due wear.

Tiki.

trg42wraglefragle · August 31, 2012, 12:50 AM

My shooting buddy and I dry fire our rifles, rimfire and centre fire all the time, have never had a problem and nothings ever gone wrong.

The local gun store lets you dry fire their rifles, so they must have hundreds of people dry fire hundreds of rifles and can't have had a problem as they continue to let you do it.

mr.t7024 · August 31, 2012, 06:13 PM

Have a great day all,enjoy the weekend.

Cliff BTW thanks for introducing yourself coyota!

Metal god · September 1, 2012, 12:12 AM

The funny thing about the dry firing ( Rimfire ) debate is . I think common sense tells us the potential is there for damage . A small thin piece of metal slamming in to a solid wall of steel that is equal or harder then it

, Over ond over again has to cause damage at some point. so why do it .

FrosSsT · September 1, 2012, 10:24 AM

Quote:

I hope you are not speaking for me. I was planning on calling. Nothing wrong with a good old fashion telephone.

No I was not talking to you I was talking to Mr.T

FrosSsT · September 1, 2012, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Mr.t7024, don't think people are upset. But you post a categorical statement in all caps, with no explanation to substantiate why you say that, and given it flies completely in the face of a lot of people's own personal and professional experience with firearms, and people obviously wonder why you say that?

You nailed it. Nobody is getting "upset" over a firearms discussion especially one as simple as this one.

I'm not trying to scorch him but Mr.T posts something that goes against years of experience and even what the manufacturers of the firearms say with nothing to back it up. Then he proceeds to dodge the questions being asked by saying "Have a great day guys have a great weekend" It is this kind of stuff that misleads and confuses the OP. We are here to share information and help each other on this forum - that is why we take the time out of our days to ask and answer peoples questions. By calling someone (would never even post my work cell # on the internet but to each his own) you are just telling one person without posting it for all to see and to learn or dispute with counter facts.

mr.t7024 · September 1, 2012, 03:03 PM

I have been shooting for 54 years.I have replaced firing pins on two Marlin Model 60's and for others who rifles were center fire, all because they were dry fired. Shooting for 54 years gives me some experience...

I do give out my # because I want to. I enjoy talking to others who enjoy the shooting sports, that even includes those who disagree with me...!

Have a great day,

Cliff

Old_Crow · September 1, 2012, 08:45 PM

In the users guide for Ruger SA Ruger reccomends dry firing the weapon to get used to it. I have been dry firing a SBH for over 30 years. It has never given me a moments trouble.

tobnpr · September 4, 2012, 04:40 PM

The Marlin Model 60 is an inexpensive .22LR rimfire...
Those should never have been dry-fired..

wizrd · September 4, 2012, 06:18 PM

Disagreement here seems to be based on semantics:

All firearms may be dry fired. Some firearms may be damaged by dry firing without the use of snap-caps. If you are not sure, consult the owners manual or a knowledgeable party, or always use snap-caps.

For example: ( Personal knowledge) Cost me a few bucks to fix this one:
A model 66 or model 19 S & W revolver SHOULD NEVER BE DRY FIRED WITHOUT A SNAP CAP IN PLACE IN THE CYLINDER. -- The firing pin nose may break, when it does, it will fly out of the muzzle like a BB. Can an unloaded revolver seriously hurt you? Yes, if you were dumb enough to be looking down the barrel when dry firing your S & W Modle 66 WITHOUT SNAP CAPS IN PLACE. ( I WAS NOT LOOKING DOWN THE BARREL). The aforementioned broken firing pin nose left the muzzle and ricocheted off of two walls in my living room before coming to rest harmlessly on the floor.

mr.t7024 · September 4, 2012, 06:44 PM

I will keep this as simple as I can: I firmly believe that the rim fire and center fire cartridges act as a shock absorber for the firing pin and without the cartridge you have metal on metal, either on the chamber (rim fire) or inside the bolt (center fire),that is why I use snap caps.

Cliff

FloridaVeteran · September 4, 2012, 08:20 PM

I have snap caps for every center-fire cartridge gun that I own. But I have not found a snap-cap for rimfire. Does anyone know of one? A-Zoom, for example, sells excellent snap-caps for centerfire calibers. But for rimfire they sell "training rounds" that say on the pack they are intended for cycling, not dry-firing. That is because center-fire snap caps have a nifty piece of silicone mounted in place of the primer, kind of like the rubber on a tire. But they have not been able to come up with a rim on a dummy rimfire round that can take the abuse of repeated direct hits from a hammer, the way a rimfire case takes the hit (and becomes non-reloadable).

On the rare occasions when I load once-fired rimfire cases into a revolver for a friend to try, I rotate the cases to get the fired indent at six-o'clock from the hammer hit. It's not the end of the world, but rimfires are very different from all centerfire cartridges with regard to dry-firing.

Disclaimer: I don't and won't buy any gun that has a transfer bar. So I don't know if there are any transfer-bar rimfire guns out there. If there are, I wouldn't trust my life with one.

coyota1 · September 4, 2012, 08:41 PM

I've used spent casings as a dumby round. After 3 fires you need to rotate it. It seems to work.

SIGSHR · September 4, 2012, 08:47 PM

Regarding rimfire snap caps, some have gotten good results by filling 22 case with putty or something similar to absord the impact.
I dry fire all the time, a good way of developing shooting skills, getting familar with a firearm, and perhaps slicking up an action.

Onward Allusion · September 4, 2012, 09:35 PM

Strictly my opinion here...

...but I really think dry firing w/o snap caps or dummy rounds is not a good practice. I'm not talking about breaking the firing pin or anything like that. I'm referring to the building of a habit that could lead to a ND/AD.

When I pull the trigger on any firearm, it's either a part of firing it, assembly/dis-assembly, checking function with a snap cap, or dry firing as practicing trigger control with a snap cap. When one gets into the habit of pulling the trigger on a gun without making the conscious effort of loading a snap cap or dummy round, it makes for a bad habit. Again, just my opinion.

coyota1 · September 5, 2012, 02:22 AM

Yeah "high honey, I just blew another hole in the tv set".

hooligan1 · September 5, 2012, 09:01 AM

Here the last few days, I've been practicing shooting off my Primos Tripod sticks, and of course I'm dry firing my rifles to get the feel of the rifle and trigger squeeze and timing down.

There's no harm in this with or without "snap-caps",,, most of you nimrod computer sniper, psuedo rifle experts could use some practice too!!!

gwnorth · September 5, 2012, 07:07 PM

Quote:

When I pull the trigger on any firearm, it's either a part of firing it, assembly/dis-assembly, checking function with a snap cap, or dry firing as practicing trigger control with a snap cap. When one gets into the habit of pulling the trigger on a gun without making the conscious effort of loading a snap cap or dummy round, it makes for a bad habit. Again, just my opinion.

But, if, as you should, you literally treat ever weapon as loaded until you, personally and directly, have thoroughly and carefully, visually and tactilely checked that it is unloaded, you will never pull the trigger on a loaded gun.

I think relying on the conscious act of loading a dummy round is folly itself. If you are going to practice trigger control by dry firing, then you need to make sure the gun is not loaded, then check it again, then once more to be sure. And if it leaves your hands at any time during that (even if still in sight), you start the clearance procedure all over again from scratch

Load a snap cap at that point if it makes you feel better about dry firing sure, but that act should not be part of your standard safety routine before handling any firearm.

When I pull the trigger on a firearm, it is either to shoot it, or only after I have made very, very sure it is not loaded. Anything else is completely secondary to that procedure of clearing the weapon first.

Not slamming your opinion, just giving the flip side of that same coin.

August 30, 2012, 06:38 PM	#28
mr.t7024 Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2012 Location: Ma, near a brook Posts: 229	Dry firing No need for anyone to get upset. I do not dry fire any of my rifles,pistols or shotguns. If someone wants to fine,be my guest. If you do not want to call that works for me. I do not do text,and I am not a prolific writer. So I wish all of you a great Labor Day Weekend and maybe we can all agree to vote against oslama... I mean Obama. Cliff

August 30, 2012, 08:17 PM	#32
Tikirocker Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2007 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 909	CZ .22's CZ state in their own literature that it is safe to dry fire their .22 rifles. I have no hesitation in doing this, though I have come across people who had out of spec firing pins; ie firing pins that protrude past the bolt shoulder. This is a QC error at factory, but it serves to illustrate that it bears gauging your firing pins to ensure that they do not pass the bolt shoulder - the result of which in the case of dry firing would be undue wear, peening or worse. The answer to CZ's position on dry firing their Rimfires lies in the above paragraph. From factory, and if correct, the CZ-452 firing pin when extended should remain below the bolt shoulder. The bolt shoulder encloses around the outside of the base of the casing and the shoulder itself meets the chamber face. The base of the case then sits slightly inside the bolt face where the firing pin strikes the primer - this is why the firing pin doesn't hit the chamber face. I checked mine, and it is within spec and well below the shoulder. This should mean that I am fine to dry fire my .22 all day long, if I want to, without any due wear. Tiki. __________________ The Lee Enfield forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=27 Surplus Rifle Forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/index.php

August 31, 2012, 06:13 PM	#34
mr.t7024 Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2012 Location: Ma, near a brook Posts: 229	Dry Fireing Have a great day all,enjoy the weekend. Cliff BTW thanks for introducing yourself coyota!

September 1, 2012, 12:12 AM	#35
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,876	The funny thing about the dry firing ( Rimfire ) debate is . I think common sense tells us the potential is there for damage . A small thin piece of metal slamming in to a solid wall of steel that is equal or harder then it , Over ond over again has to cause damage at some point. so why do it . Last edited by Metal god; September 1, 2012 at 11:29 AM.

September 1, 2012, 03:03 PM	#38
mr.t7024 Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2012 Location: Ma, near a brook Posts: 229	dry fire I have been shooting for 54 years.I have replaced firing pins on two Marlin Model 60's and for others who rifles were center fire, all because they were dry fired. Shooting for 54 years gives me some experience... I do give out my # because I want to. I enjoy talking to others who enjoy the shooting sports, that even includes those who disagree with me...! Have a great day, Cliff

August 30, 2012, 06:00 PM	#27
gwnorth Senior Member Join Date: September 3, 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 692	I've been dry firing center fire firearms (rifles and handguns) for 35 years and never known it to hurt a thing. In the Canadian forces dry firing (HiPowers and FN-FALs) was a standard training technique and was used a lot, especially with novice shooters prior to their first trip to the range line. There are old US forces training videos online with scenes of soldiers routinely dry firing Garands as a training aid.

August 30, 2012, 06:49 PM	#29
thallub Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Location: South Western OK Posts: 3,112	i dry fire all my rifles except the rimfires. Been doing it for 60 years and have not damaged anything.

August 31, 2012, 12:50 AM	#33
trg42wraglefragle Senior Member Join Date: April 21, 2008 Location: new zealand Posts: 856	My shooting buddy and I dry fire our rifles, rimfire and centre fire all the time, have never had a problem and nothings ever gone wrong. The local gun store lets you dry fire their rifles, so they must have hundreds of people dry fire hundreds of rifles and can't have had a problem as they continue to let you do it.

September 1, 2012, 08:45 PM	#39
Old_Crow Member Join Date: September 1, 2012 Location: NC Posts: 20	In the users guide for Ruger SA Ruger reccomends dry firing the weapon to get used to it. I have been dry firing a SBH for over 30 years. It has never given me a moments trouble.

September 4, 2012, 04:40 PM	#40
tobnpr Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2010 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 4,556	The Marlin Model 60 is an inexpensive .22LR rimfire... Those should never have been dry-fired..

September 4, 2012, 06:18 PM	#41
wizrd Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2012 Posts: 232	Disagreement here seems to be based on semantics: All firearms may be dry fired. Some firearms may be damaged by dry firing without the use of snap-caps. If you are not sure, consult the owners manual or a knowledgeable party, or always use snap-caps. For example: ( Personal knowledge) Cost me a few bucks to fix this one: A model 66 or model 19 S & W revolver SHOULD NEVER BE DRY FIRED WITHOUT A SNAP CAP IN PLACE IN THE CYLINDER. -- The firing pin nose may break, when it does, it will fly out of the muzzle like a BB. Can an unloaded revolver seriously hurt you? Yes, if you were dumb enough to be looking down the barrel when dry firing your S & W Modle 66 WITHOUT SNAP CAPS IN PLACE. ( I WAS NOT LOOKING DOWN THE BARREL). The aforementioned broken firing pin nose left the muzzle and ricocheted off of two walls in my living room before coming to rest harmlessly on the floor.

September 4, 2012, 06:44 PM	#42
mr.t7024 Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2012 Location: Ma, near a brook Posts: 229	Dry fire I will keep this as simple as I can: I firmly believe that the rim fire and center fire cartridges act as a shock absorber for the firing pin and without the cartridge you have metal on metal, either on the chamber (rim fire) or inside the bolt (center fire),that is why I use snap caps. Cliff

September 4, 2012, 08:20 PM	#43
FloridaVeteran Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2012 Location: Central Florida Posts: 399	I have snap caps for every center-fire cartridge gun that I own. But I have not found a snap-cap for rimfire. Does anyone know of one? A-Zoom, for example, sells excellent snap-caps for centerfire calibers. But for rimfire they sell "training rounds" that say on the pack they are intended for cycling, not dry-firing. That is because center-fire snap caps have a nifty piece of silicone mounted in place of the primer, kind of like the rubber on a tire. But they have not been able to come up with a rim on a dummy rimfire round that can take the abuse of repeated direct hits from a hammer, the way a rimfire case takes the hit (and becomes non-reloadable). On the rare occasions when I load once-fired rimfire cases into a revolver for a friend to try, I rotate the cases to get the fired indent at six-o'clock from the hammer hit. It's not the end of the world, but rimfires are very different from all centerfire cartridges with regard to dry-firing. Disclaimer: I don't and won't buy any gun that has a transfer bar. So I don't know if there are any transfer-bar rimfire guns out there. If there are, I wouldn't trust my life with one.

September 4, 2012, 08:41 PM	#44
coyota1 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2008 Location: West Michigan Posts: 663	I've used spent casings as a dumby round. After 3 fires you need to rotate it. It seems to work.

September 4, 2012, 08:47 PM	#45
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	Regarding rimfire snap caps, some have gotten good results by filling 22 case with putty or something similar to absord the impact. I dry fire all the time, a good way of developing shooting skills, getting familar with a firearm, and perhaps slicking up an action.

September 4, 2012, 09:35 PM	#46
Onward Allusion Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2009 Location: Back in a Non-Free State Posts: 3,133	different take Strictly my opinion here... ...but I really think dry firing w/o snap caps or dummy rounds is not a good practice. I'm not talking about breaking the firing pin or anything like that. I'm referring to the building of a habit that could lead to a ND/AD. When I pull the trigger on any firearm, it's either a part of firing it, assembly/dis-assembly, checking function with a snap cap, or dry firing as practicing trigger control with a snap cap. When one gets into the habit of pulling the trigger on a gun without making the conscious effort of loading a snap cap or dummy round, it makes for a bad habit. Again, just my opinion. __________________ Simple as ABC . . . Always Be Carrying

September 5, 2012, 02:22 AM	#47
coyota1 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2008 Location: West Michigan Posts: 663	Yeah "high honey, I just blew another hole in the tv set".

September 5, 2012, 09:01 AM	#48
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,586	Here the last few days, I've been practicing shooting off my Primos Tripod sticks, and of course I'm dry firing my rifles to get the feel of the rifle and trigger squeeze and timing down. There's no harm in this with or without "snap-caps",,, most of you nimrod computer sniper, psuedo rifle experts could use some practice too!!! __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry. Last edited by hooligan1; September 6, 2012 at 12:14 PM.