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Old April 10, 2009, 10:35 PM   #26
flippycat
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Well I just watched it also, agree with what has already been stated for the most part at it being anti heart string propaganda.

I would though of liked to seen an experiment with shots being heard in a neighboring classroom and what would happen given more then 3 seconds to react. Sure being prepared for the WORST case scenario is a premium goal, but even the highly trained cannot know the exact outcome of any situation.

I think it would of been nice to show what would of happened if the situation was just a tad different maybe hearing shots in the hall before the shooter entered which seems to be the case in the majority of the instances they used as example.

"They" are not going to hold any cards back in this campaign and are hoping the ace string of hearts they have up their sleeve will help them win the fight. Sad really.
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Old April 10, 2009, 10:43 PM   #27
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I caught the last half hour of the show. Same crap, different flies. I heard them say at the end of the show that they couldn't find any information on how effective guns were in the hands of civilians and that the information they did find was "controversial." Does anyone have any links, or info that can refute this?
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Old April 10, 2009, 10:50 PM   #28
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Quote:
I think it would of been nice to show what would of happened if the situation was just a tad different maybe hearing shots in the hall before the shooter entered which seems to be the case in the majority of the instances they used as example.
Well The LEO also shot the teacher then immediately went to the student who had the concealed carry conspicuously placed in the same spot EVERY TIME. Dont tell him someone has a concealled carry and even if he does know......dont tell him where hes sitting! That kid sitting behind the chair would blend in with the other 50 and he could have easily taken out the shooter.
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Old April 10, 2009, 10:56 PM   #29
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Show was nothing more than anti-gun, mind manipulation. Using the kids to pull at the heartstrings was a new low. I particularly liked the young boy that wanted to tell Obama about getting rid of guns in his hood. Showing the thugs in his neighborhood and telling of the killings going on there. Then the inmates talking about buying whatever you want for $60 on the street. Correct me if I`m wrong but don`t we already have laws against criminals owning guns. How bout lets start inforceing these existing laws and taking these thugs,gangbangers and dealers off the streets. Not just for a day or two. Give em maximum sentences. No plea bargains or early out for good behaviour. Curfew laws would be a good place to start with not only arresting the minor found out after curfew but also arresting the parent/parents ( if you can find them). IMO,This show had a huge 'guns are evil' overtone and was nothing more than mind softening and cheerleading to recruit more anti-supporters for whats to come from this administration. I`d rate this show about the same as the Mexican drug cartel and AWB ban tactics. More BS for the sheeple.
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Old April 10, 2009, 10:56 PM   #30
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I watched the intro... That was all I could take.
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Old April 10, 2009, 10:59 PM   #31
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I missed all this, decided to watch Gecko45:The Movie, aka Observe and Report. Mall security getting together at the range with stryker 12ga and augs and aks, its definitely gecko.
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Old April 10, 2009, 11:32 PM   #32
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Let's Jim Zumbo them!

Leave a response for them.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/comments?...669#commentBox
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Old April 10, 2009, 11:47 PM   #33
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SWK, They said any reports they found were "contradictory"...

As for highly trained... There is some truth in that statement as well as the tunnel vision and such. Also the ability to lose what you know from lack of retraining is likely to an extent.
The ability keep your cool under intense pressure is different for every one of us.
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Old April 10, 2009, 11:49 PM   #34
Major Dave (retired)
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Unrealistic "classroom"

I have 2 bachelors degrees, one associate (2 yr) degree, 15 semester hours toward a masters degree, and in all those years of college, on 4 campuses, I have NEVER seen such a small classroom, and never seen a horseshoe seating arrangement.

Every student in the 20/20 staged scenario was within 20 feet of the door the assailant entered through. I've sat in lecture halls with up to 300 students in attendance. Rooms 30 to 50 yards wide and equally as deep. Professors used microphones to broadcast their lectures thru speakers so everyone in attendance could hear what they were teaching.

So, I guess 20/20 expects everyone to just duck/run, etc., in other words, do nothing! Yeah, that ought to work!!!
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Old April 11, 2009, 12:48 AM   #35
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This show was very clever.

They were clever enough not to say "guns are bad". Instead, they try to say "resistance is futile".

In the stupid classroom scenario - as was mentioned - the class was ridiculously small, the subject sat in the front, center and the gunman immediately went for them after shooting the instructor.

It was rigged like a carnival game.

I have to give them props for very well engineered propaganda.
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Old April 11, 2009, 01:53 AM   #36
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Watching the classroom scenario I noticed some of the same things as many other posters. The one's that got to me most were they always sat the person with the gun in the same spot. Why not mix it up? Then see what happens... you know.... make it a real experiment... not one that is going to guarantee the same result time after time. And the other thing is the guy shooting up the classroom was a freaking cop. An expert compared to the kids they brought in. Seems like they could have made it a little more realistic by putting one of the kids in that role. Maybe I missed the point but isn't that the "scenario" they were going for? A disgruntled student or possibly employee of the school comes in and shoots the place up. Not a police officer with hours upon hours of firearms training.

Of course being a crazy, gun person, I’m probably just trying to poke holes in it because I know it was all legit and ABC just wanted viewers to have fair, impartial info so everyone could make up their own minds. :barf:
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Old April 11, 2009, 02:33 AM   #37
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Saur Grapes. thanks for the list of sponsors. I'm going to share it with some other blogs I'm on.
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Old April 11, 2009, 03:38 AM   #38
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Here's one take on it:

20/20 anti-gun hatchet job.

I thought there were some interesting scenarios in it, but all were slanted to be anti-gun. Make me physically sick.
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Old April 11, 2009, 05:47 AM   #39
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They should have given everyone in that room a pistola, instead of one kid with many years experience that was hiding behind his chair as if it was bulletproof.

Bad show stole my appetite:barf:
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Old April 11, 2009, 06:36 AM   #40
rem870hunter
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watched it. i liked the idea of buying at the gun show,the guy should've atleast had to provide ID for age. first thing he bought was a handgun,how is the seller going to know if he's 21 or not.

and the guns being fired in pohakee (spelling), florida. gangbangers,criminals. NOT LEGAL gunowners. you think a right minded person would discharge without any regard to public safety.
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Old April 11, 2009, 06:54 AM   #41
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The media are such idiots, The program spoke about children and grown adults finding guns and then shooting their friends or themselves.... hey what if we had a mandatory class for gun handling, and what to do if you find a weapon etc in our schools?

The program was so set up to be anti gun...

At the end, Diane Sawyer said something like 'We haven't been able to find any other studies that are reliable enough to show that carrying a gun is worthwhile, and the ones we found were contradictary'... of course they're condictary to their agenda...

What about telling stories of guns actually saving people lives??

The program was just to scare people away from considering carrying a weapon...
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Old April 11, 2009, 07:30 AM   #42
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Perfectly rehearsed. What a set up. Propaganda in its purest form.

The classroom scenes where the "police and ABC employees" were supposed to react normally to a gunman entering the room, immediately killing the instructor, and then turning the gunfire to the students were totally bogus.

One student at a time was given a concealed weapon (paint ball) in a classroom setting and was unsuspecting of the time of the attack. Each time the gunman entered the room, killed the instructor, and hit the student before he/she could even draw or before he/she could hit the gunman. Complete farce.

You see, the set up was like this. The armed student was placed in the front row, dead center. The students who were police and ABC "actors" immediately moved away from the unsuspecting student with the concealed weapon (except in the one scenario when an actor ran in front of the student). Upon dispatching the instructor at the front of the classroom, the gunman immediately turned his fire directly upon the student with the personal protection gun and shot him/her.

How did the gunman know which student to shoot first? IT WAS IN THE SCRIPT! Why didn't half of the "actor" students freeze or scatter haphazardly instead of clearing away from the armed student. IT WAS IN THE SCRIPT!

It was doubtful that even a highly trained professional could have stopped the gunman from killing the instructor in that scenario. It was that quick. But place me or any other mildly competent defensive shooter into the classroom in a random seat where the rehearsed "actor gunman" wouldn't immediately know who to shoot next, then have all the other students be "unsuspecting" instead of clearing a firing lane, and the gunman would be dead in a matter of seconds with only one casualty. For some odd reason, ABC and Diane Sawyer didn't include a scenario like this in their propoganda hoax.

Somehow, the script didn't include any unknowns for the gunman. A total lie was aired to public by the anti-Second Ammendment dirt bags.
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Old April 11, 2009, 07:55 AM   #43
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Heres the response I left.

Wow, I really enjoyed the show last night "If I only had a gun". It showed me how one sided people can be. You tell the men that have saved the family because he was somehow miraculously able to get on target and end the situation. Or the woman who was able to save herself from being raped. Or the grandma that saved herself from being robbed/murdered. What the hell are you trying to do to Americans? Look at the stats on Austraila if you want. Ever since they TOOK firearms from the general population crime has sky rocketed! Its a FACT. About everything you did last night was not FACT. I seem to remember a show about a suv rolling over some years ago. I also remember some years later a show about how it impossible to roll the suv and some producers had to make it happen. Is there a chance your program last night was in any way related to that show? I think we know the answer and I also know I'm wasting my time giving you this info.. But oh well, it makes me feel a little better. We all have to do our part don't we.
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Old April 11, 2009, 08:36 AM   #44
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You all missed the good news.
9 million new gun owners.And the media can't stop them
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Old April 11, 2009, 09:34 AM   #45
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Quote:
You all missed the good news.
9 million new gun owners.And the media can't stop them
Excellent point! And, I bet that show will not slow the growth in gun ownership one iota.
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Old April 11, 2009, 10:59 AM   #46
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Topic retitled.
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Old April 11, 2009, 12:18 PM   #47
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Tell him how you feel. The writer of that 20/20 piece is Eamon McNiff, and his email address is: [email protected]
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Old April 11, 2009, 12:22 PM   #48
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The biggest problem I had with it (besides the title) was there was absolutely no reference whatsoever as to the origin of their "study", nor the opinions of law enforcement (save the one retired BATF agent), the NSSF, or any other group with a view other than the producers'. As I stated over on the "Politics" board, my letter is enroute, I assure you. All they set out to do was make fools of gunowners and law enforcement officials. It was a big spit in my face.:barf:

There were no positive facts included, such as the number of crimes PREVENTED by gun ownership! Also, are we stupid enough to believe they actually called on the NRA for a statement they refused to give on why they don't support the "gun show loophole" opposition? Hell, the NRA has a host of television shows voicing their opinion and stance on various matters, not to mention magazines, telephone hotlines, brochures, public education, and many various media outlets for their phenomenal library on these subjects. "No response from the NRA?" I thought they had very well made that clear for the last 138 years or so?

Just those images of little idiots looking down the barrel of planted handguns was enough to enfuriate me for the rest of the weekend! Always taken for fools, they want the unknowing public to completely ignore the most obvious detail they "uncovered", which was the desperate need for HANDS ON gun safety education in our public schools nationwide. We have a great program for high school here in NC, but it looks to me like we need to start a lot earlier than that.

Lastly, they are using their power as a media outlet to the masses to confuse and sway public opinion on political matters. Where have we seen this before? I believe it was 1994-96-ish? Clinton II, here we go again. Anything goes, as long as it sounds good. Next time, maybe we can get them to title the show, "If I Only Had A Drink", or maybe even, "If I Only Had Some Dope". Wow, we could really hit some numbers then! Get ready, the fight is coming, and we don't need to stand alone. Join the NRA today! -7-
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Old April 11, 2009, 02:28 PM   #49
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My Review...

Even though the conclusion was predetermined and well-broadcast ahead of time, I tuned in to ABC's 20/20 propaganda report on 4/10 just to see how the emotional fans were going to blow concerning gun ownership in America. This report was touted as the culmination of a year's worth of work by Diane Sawyer and her anti-gun cronies at ABC, so I was at the very least expecting something substantive in the way of a production.

This report was an absolute flop, a real sleeper. It was so badly put together that it came across more like the work of last-minute cramming for a school exam rather than the product of a tireless journalistic endeavor. It was amateurish at best, and downright pathetic at the other end of the scale.

Time after time viewers were shown persons of questionable IQ picking up handguns and turning the muzzle toward themselves as they peered down the barrel, presumably checking to see if the guns were loaded. It was literally a parade of fools presented as typical Americans, as if most Americans are completely unfamiliar with what end of a firearm discharges a bullet.

The usual menu of statistics provided by radical anti-2nd Amendment groups were sprinkled throughout, but in such a predictable manner that most of the report seemed like a rerun episode, certainly not a provocative new expose' of any real merit.

The one thing I did find a bit distressing in the report was the general attitude conveyed by the law enforcement professionals used in the story. It was no veiled secret that those officers interviewed held a dubious opinion about a citizen's right to own and use firearms for self-defense. The message delivered was that citizens can never be adequately trained to use a gun in a true life-or-death situation. Gun owners were depicted as inept and something far less than qualified to ever effectively use a firearm in such a predicament. One can only hope that this condescending attitude is not pervasive among law enforcement officers as a whole.

Aside from the above, the report was a major snoozer in my opinion. I was left wondering how many viewers could actually sustain consciousness throughout the whole 60-minute show. On the bottom line, a "D" grade for production quality, and the usual flunking score for Ms. Sawyer & crew for truthfulness in reporting.
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Old April 11, 2009, 02:40 PM   #50
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20/20

My daughter is a Junior at Virginia Tech and was living in the Ambler-Johnston
dorm when the shootings took place. We live in Fairfax, Virginia which is home
to more liberal nit-wits than I can count. Immediately after the shootings,
the VPC (Brady bunch) was looking all over for parents who were willing
to go public and denounce gun ownership. I wish somehow they'd have
contacted me so I could have had the privilege of telling them off in some
very explicit terms. On Monday morning, NYC Mayor Bloomberg will be in
Arlington with his lackey's in order to announce a state-wide media blitz
to influence legislation to close the so called gun-show-loophole. There's
no such thing. These punks make me sick and it only strengthens my
resolve to chase Bloomie back to NY where be belongs. As far as I'm concerned
he's just another Yankee Carpetbagger with more money than respect
for the Constitution.
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