Does black powder get old and dangerous?

[cledford]

I've got 2 cans of Goex fffg powder I bought back in the 99 time frame. Used a 1/3rd of one and never even opened the second. The cans have been stored fairly well since. They did spend a year in a half in a dry, but non temp. regulated garage. All of the rest of the time has been in a cool dry place.

Does BP degrade or become unsafe over time?

Thanks for the help,

-Calvin

[old 12 gauge]

it should be good for ever long as it didn't get wet, just shake a can and if it still moves around, then it's should be ok.

[Dave Haven]

I've got 2 cans of Goex fffg powder I bought back in the 99 time frame.

That powder is way too old and dangerous! Send it to me and I'll dispose of it properly.
Seriously, I've shot black and smokeless powder that were over 40 years old and they performed like new powder. 8 years is nothing if the powder was stored under reasonable conditions.

[Old Dragoon]

Even if it drew moisture and has clumps in it, just break up the clumps and use it. There are reports of folks getting their powder wet and drying it out and using it. It just won't fire when wet or damp.

I just used some Dupont FFFG in a primer horn that I bought in 1968 when you could buy 25 LB kegs at a time(I did, 2 FFG, 2 FFFG, and 1 FFFFG. I dumped it into a coffee can and set it off. WHOOSH! it was still good after all these years, but I couldn't bring the horn home on the plane with it in there due to post 911 flying rules. So I burn't it up and washed the horn out now it's a salt horn.

I have read reports of folks buying old ML rifles with loads in them from the late 1800's, even into the 1920's and either were fired or powder removed and the powder was still good.

[mec]

does anybody know when dupont quit putting black powder in the old ovoid can dated 1924? (no. it was not a one-year deal." This was a near-depleted can of FFg. It recorded velocities less than 50 fps slower than new goex FFg.

Also used some 90 year old powder pulled from cartridges. Results were mixed with most guns recording velocities about 50 fps less than modern goex FFFG but some actually matching or exceeding new goex.

[4V50 Gary]

When the Civil War ironclad Cairo (pronounced in Vicksburg as Kay-Row) was salvaged, the explosive shells were found to be filled with powder. Said powder was washed out and allowed to run into the river where it could do no harm. If it was allowed to dry, it could still have been used as an explosive.

[Gbro]

There are differing opinion on old black powder. I have seen the results of firring an old 1890's revolver with 1890's ammo. The cylinder was distorted, and locked up the gun. The collector told me(1970) that he knew the danger, and tried it anyways. He said BP never weakens, and that it will get more potent with age.
Being young and dumb, i retold that story and warned others. But today i do have a new theory on that incident. Warning this is only a HUMBLE OPINION, because i still fit in the second half of the early description.
1. Being the old firearms were made of wrought iron and not many were heat treated(revolvers).
2. Old ammunition of questionable origin cannot be relied on for safe shooting.
3. There is a good possibility the bullet could seize(stick) in the case, and this could cause a very dangerous increase in chamber pressures.

This has happened to me with modern ammo, and the results were shocking.

I was using RCBS case lube. and lubed the inside of the neck to stop that terrible chalk board squeak, and forgot to clean the case after resize. The next season that lube turned into glue, and i got a big surprise.
I had to pound the bolt open. and the primmer was blown, the web was 95? separated. and the report, and recoil were far more than normal.
I couldn't pull the bullets out of the cases until i cracked the loose with the seat die.
Lesson Learned.

[9mmHP]

Black powder is a mixture, not a compound, and as such, does not decompose over time if kept dry. The component chemicals are mixed under pressure, or corned, into granules. If black powder is exposed to moisture, the granules can separate into their separate parts making the mixture less intimate and the powder less powerful or even completely ineffective. Dry stored powder will keep indefinitely.

[shoebox1.1]

is it just me or does mec have the most delightful pictures in his posts? always a treat to see his photos of his toys!! i particularly like the one recently with the cards that had been shot up!

[Double J]

Black powder is wet when made. The dampness aides the combining of the basic ingredients and gives it a more potent burn. Dried and ground to a selected fineness. It will last eternal if its kept dry. If it gets damp it can be dried out. If it's been soaking in a puddle, get rid of it and get new.

[9mmHP]

It can only be dried out and used if the kernels haven't started to separate. Otherwise the BP would have unpredictable, though almost certainly less powerful, characteristics. Keeping it damp during production is necessary for corning and to keep the line from going up in a loud noise and cloud of smoke.

[Steve499]

I read somewhere about the Spanish conquistadores using their breastplates over a campfire to dry out their supply of wetted gunpowder. I suppose, given their circumstances, it was the only option open to them, but I bet they were wishing they had stayed down on the farm while they did it!

Yep, mec do have a way with a camera. Pity he can't shoot a pistol.


Steve

[gmatov]

Black powder cannot even be made, as we know it, unless it is made wet. Charcoal, as an ultralight powder, has a disinfinty to being submerged and mixed with the sulfur and potassium nitrate.

If it didn't, 1/2 an hour would do the trick. It doesn't, takes way longer to get the ingredients to form a compound.

Also takes near forever for the ingredients to UNform as a compound. They may weaken, over a century, but will still be a mild explosive.

NOT like smokeless powder, where the warning is that if you open the container, and a brownish haze comes out of it, you should immediately safely dispose of it, it has decomposed, there is no telling whether it has become weaker or dangerously stronger.

Cheers,

George

[Gewehr98]

Namely, my own can of ancient DuPont black powder.



I loaded a few .45-70 rounds with the stuff, and it shot just as well, if not better than, my current batch of Goex FFFg. Kept dry, the mixture should last indefinitely.

[9mmHP]

Black powder isn't a compound. It's a mixture.