Any encounter with the police can lead to death

[johnelmore]

I was completely shocked to see the Fullerton officers get off free after beating an unarmed homeless man to death. It goes to show you that you have to carefully consider your actions when dealing with the police. Any encounter can lead to death if you do not react properly.

I do not support those who purposely try to provoke the police by open carrying with video cameras to prove a point and this post is kind of directed at you guys. Be careful, act responsibly and consider your actions.

[ClydeFrog]

You can do all of those steps & still get beat down or busted for bogus charges. I learned that lesson in 2012.
It would help to document things re; use of force or LE contacts.

Remember; it's not the truth, it's what you can prove.

[johnelmore]

Would it be appropriate for me to ask more detail? Remember this is a public message board and you have the right to remain silent.

If you stay cool, calm and silent obeying commands like "roll over and put your hands behind your back" I think you will be ok. Its actually that one command which people do not obey that gets them in the most trouble. If you refuse to put your hands behind your back then it leads to pain compliance techniques like the ASP baton or a dogpile on top of you by multiple officers.

Just keep cool and obey the commands.

[Dc777]

That's right. Obey the commands like you are a dog. Police think that they are God and rule everything. I have a few friends and 1 relative that are in law enforcement.. They are good men, but overall I feel that police don't care about your rights. They will treat you like a slave.

[iraiam]

I will obey "commands" if being arrested or detained.

That being said, beyond identifying myself with ID or other demanded documents, I absolutely will not answer any questions or willingly submit to any form of search. It doesn't matter how insignificant the circumstances may be, I do not speak to police.

I have been lied to and lied about by police on multiple occasions, so I adopted a scorched earth policy with respect to dealing with them.

I admit that what little contact I have with them, most of them really dislike being told "I'm not answering any questions", but that's the way it is.

I also send my attorney to the police department to obtain copies if my name makes it into any police report for any reason whatsoever, I have sued a police officer in the past and would do it again if I feel it necessary.

[4runnerman]

I have only had good encounters with the law ( Thank God ). They are trained to take control right away. This is something they must do. Comply and listen. If you are innocent all will be alright. If you are innocent and they beat you,well maybe you will get enough in the settlement to retire. Now I still live in a town where you shake hands with your local police officer on Sunday Morning in Church,so maybe my response means very little.
Maybe my head is in the sand,,If it is,I hope it stays that way till I pass. We still respect our law officers here.

[Jim March]

I happen to live in one of two states I am aware of where resisting false arrest with reasonable force is legal - Alabama. The other is Virginia. If there are others please advise.

And yes, at times I have been a "cop watcher". We had a very well documented case in Tucson AZ of an elderly woman being assaulted by law enforcement for taking still photos of them at a crime scene, from a reasonable distance. A bunch of us did a spate of "cop watching" to let Tucson PD know that wasn't tolerated.

[iraiam]

I have watched and recorded them as well, around here for a time, they would swarm in on bus stops and begin randomly checking IDs and asking questions. Let's just say that it stopped after some video and audio of several encounters was sent to a few people, I don't know if they got in any real trouble but we had some footage of some pretty bad acting cops, total gestapo tactics .

[johnelmore]

This kind of discussion is what gets a lot of guys in trouble. You have a false perception that somehow you can resist, but you cant. The best you can do is stay silent or verbally object to searches while obeying their commands. Thats the best you can do. However, you have no right to physically resist or they will use techniques to make you comply which would be illegal to use against prisoners of war.

I know its upsetting, but its very rare that an officer is convicted of assault.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Post by johnelmore

This kind of discussion is what gets a lot of guys in trouble. You have a false perception that somehow you can resist, but you cant. The best you can do is stay silent or verbally object to searches while obeying their commands. Thats the best you can do.

Pretty much how I see it.

There is much to be seen from the LE perspective, if you can't stand in their shoes, you can't see from their eyes. Hard to do for some I suppose, but important to note nonetheless.

Don't get me wrong there are many good LE and there are "badges". I don't care for "badges". I try to to keep in mind that some battles are better fought in court (or otherwise) than in the streets with 1 or 2 LE.

[iraiam]

This kind of discussion is what gets a lot of guys in trouble. You have a false perception that somehow you can resist, but you cant. The best you can do is stay silent or verbally object to searches while obeying their commands. Thats the best you can do. However, you have no right to physically resist or they will use techniques to make you comply which would be illegal to use against prisoners of war.

I will agree with that, it's better to remain silent no matter how much they dislike it, and do not resist. I will however offer verbal objections at every opportunity, this makes it very clear that this is all happening without my consent.

I think many people let their pride or ego get in the way of the task at hand, to get through the encounter without being manhandled or providing them with evidence to use against you.

[towboat-er]

Am I being detained? No... Then goodbye.

[armoredman]

johnlmore, there ARE times when it IS legal to resist - remember the Indiana case which lead to clarification that LEO ILLEGALLY entering your home can be resisted with lethal force. Very narrowly defined, of course.
I lived in Tucson most of my life, and I never ever saw that type of behavior from TPD, always had great dealings with them. Same goes for Pima County Sheriff Department and Pinal County Sheriffs.
Having said all that, I've always been taught, SHUT UP! You cannot talk your way out of being arrested, but you can talk yourself into worse trouble, so SHUT UP! Then get your lawyer.

[MoGas1341]

Good advice by the armoredman... I got hauled off one time for supposedly doing 23 mph over I had firearms in the truck, and a case of beer in the bed (No, I wasn't drinking, and it was unopened) and headed to Tennessee to visit my father in law for New Years. I have to add, my cruise was set for 75 mph on I-64, so yes I was speeding, but not that bad...

I got pulled over, for the above, and the LEO saw the beer in the bed, and I told him I had firearms in the vehicle. All the ammo was in a locked case in the bed, and firearms were cased under the seat. He took me in for reckless driving (yes, to jail) and then searched my truck without consent, and found nothing.

It took me a lawyer and $1000 later, but I was cleared and the trooper was reprimanded. I didn't get into trouble, but it was a PITA to get it resolved.

Point being, be polite, follow instruction, and let the courts settle it. If you are not in the wrong, keep your mouth shut and it will all work out.

[Aaron1100us]

Society lets Police get away with too much and lets them do what they want. The Police are Human, just like you and I. Therefore, the Police should no be able to act like they are above everyone else. I have some friends who are in LE and I think here are some decent ones out there but its so easy for them to think they are better than you. Regular Citizens need to be able to Police the Police. Imagine being able to arrest a Police Officer for harrasment, speeding or whatever?

[Tom Servo]

We've had several threads, including a few quite recently, that touched on all of these points. There's no pressing need to have a new one at this juncture.