High velocity + short range = What?

[Dannyboy]

My uncle invited me on a hunting trip to Maine in November. Seeing as I just sold him my .308, I am left with a .223 and a 7mmSTW and I have absolutely no intentions of using the .223. I was told that, for the most part, ranges are 75yds and less. My question is, what ammo would be the best bet on deer at that range? I am thinking of the Nitrex w/145 gr Speer GS and Remington w/140gr A-Frame. I've got some 160gr Sierra GameKings that I loaded but I think that might be a little too much. They were loaded kinda hot. Any other recommendations out there? I'd appreciate the help.

[Zorro]

Close range and 3000 FPS+ firearms = Blasted to a pulp and inedible deer.

7mm STW will do nasty things to a whitetail up close.

I once blew the entire left ham off a Pronghorn Antelope at about 75 yards, with a 7mm Remington Magnum 150 Grain Winchester Power Point. Wasted about half the meat.

Handload it down to 2500 FPS.

Or get a less hotrod rifle.

[labgrade]

Since you're reloading, download that thing to around 7-08 specs. Maybe a 170 gr bullet too.

Only 3 months, better get crackin'

[Art Eatman]

A 165- or 180-grain soft point at around 2,800 will do just fine.

Dunno about nowadays, but some Maine whitetail are really big critters. A buddy of mine showed me a photo of one he killed, back in the early 1960s; it dressed out around 300 pounds. From the picture, believable!

Hey, Zorro, ol' buddy, ol' pal, ya gotta learn which end is which, on them thar pronghorns! 'Sposed to shoot 'em in the neck, not the butt! (But don't feel bad. I spotted a little buck down in some brush; broke his neck for him. The bullet continued through his neck and into a ham just at the hip joint, ranging downward. Yuck!)

Art

[HSMITH]

If you hit a big bone at 75 yards with lots of bullets out there at 7STW velocity you can have some serious problems. Meat damage will be terrible. The Speer grand slam 175 will hold up at 75 yards. The partition frontal area will not. You will have major damage to the meat if you hit it in the shoulder. The gameking also will not hold up at that range if loaded hot, unless it is the hollowpoint 160 GK, then it might hold up.

I would go with a heavy bullet. They are designed for bigger tougher animals and are constructed heavier giving them the best chance of staying together on close range shots. Or load the 160 gameking you have down to about 2700, it will work extremely well at that speed. I have shot a lot of deer and elk with a 284 using that bullet at that speed. I know it works.

[Dannyboy]

Thanks for the help guys but I guess I should have mentioned that I can no longer reload. I had done those others with my buddy's stuff. Unfortunately, he lives in Georgia now, so basically, I'm stuck with factory ammo. Not that this is really a bad thing, mind you. It just narrows down my options quite a bit. What about the 160gr Fail Safe from Winchester? Does anyone have any experience with them?

[dakotasin]

never had any experience w/ the failsafes... for short shots w/ an stw, find the heaviest bullet you can factory loaded. this will bring velocity down and bullet toughness up.

[Al Thompson]

Danny, Ross Seyfried (one of the very few gun writers I trust) really likes the failsafe. As it it a very tough bullet, I *think* it would fit your needs....

If I were in your shoes, that's what I would use.

Frankly, the meat loss issue is sort of moot to me. I am a meat hunter (no bucks in several years), but losing a shoulder simply isn't that much of a loss, compared to a clean kill. No clean kill = :barf:

My best friend popped a buck just north of Maine that weighed almost 300 lbs., so you are not really overgunned IMHO.

[Zorro]

Art, I jumped the thing up from a water tank where I did not expect him to be.

Unprepared first shot of the day and still sleepy.

I meant to put the bullet thru the ribs but didn't follow thru with the swing, Shot it right in the hip.

Big mess but instantly dead too.

7mm Mag power isn't really needed on a Pronghorn, but normally they are shot much farther out.

[Preacherman]

Hi, Dannyboy. Easiest solution - don't use expanding bullets at all! Follow the African way and use solids only. These won't expand at all on deer, but even at high velocity, they don't cause much meat damage. They will certainly exit, leaving a good blood channel and drainage, and will work at any range.

In Africa, we often hunted with fast calibers and solid bullets. These convert a meat-mincer caliber into a perfectly usable one for even small game. I've seen .458 Win. Mag.'s used on springbok and impala (smaller than the average whitetail) with perfect success and no meat destruction, using solid bullets. I'm sure you can find a factory-loaded 7mm. STW solid, if you look: if not, talk to a reloading friend about cooking up some for you.

[Al Thompson]

Solids are not a bad solution from the practical view. Not sure about Maine, but solids are unlawful for use in most states.

[Southla1]

I'd have to agree with Gizmo on this one...................use the full bore factory loads and just do your best with shot placement to avoid (of possible) hams, shoulders, amd fopr God's sake the backstraps and tenderloins () etc.

Down here 75 yards is considered a long shot.............hell if you can see 50 yards you are in the open, yet many of us use fullbore HP Centerfire rifle loads (myself included). Sure some times you may pulverize a lil meat but if you happen to stumble on one on a pipeline Right of Way at 300 yards or in a bean field you are ready. You never know where your next shot will be.

[Preacherman]

Gizmo, I don't get it. Solids ILLEGAL??? How is it then legal to use Garrett Hammerheads, Buffalo Bore, Federal CastCore, and such bullets in .45-70, .44 Magnum, etc.? Surely these are solids? - or does the absence of a jacket make them "softpoints"? Sounds wierd to me! I'd never heard of a "no-solid" rule - can you give more details?

[labgrade]

Colorado's got a rule (too) that all bullets must be of an "expanding type."

I could argue the fact that anytime anything comes into a speedy (& violent) contact, there's an expansion happening. Doubtful it'd get me too far in the CO elk-woods with Officer Friendly though they have other ways of looking at things.

Anyway, that's the law.

[Edward429451]

Aw, I think that law just means you cant use AP ammo on em'

Solids are still hunting bullets, right officer?

[labgrade]

I never expect to test the law, but, I'd betcha I could make a case that, yes, even AP expands - it's mere physics, officer.

Ain't my look out they didn't specify how much expansion.

Moot point nonetheless re this thread.

For a swifty 7mm at close range & factory fodder, I'd get the heaviest bullet to tone down the velocity (as alaredy mentioned), sight the thing in dead-on at 50 yards & if posible, take a neck shot right at the base of the brain.

'Course, with a "cut the cord shot" it won't matter one single bit what bullet/velocity you use.

[Al Thompson]

Preacherman, as you've probably noted, logic and laws don't usually correspond.

The intent is good, but the results have problems. Note - here in SC I have never been checked while deer hunting. Too many deer. What the wardens want to see is exposed lead - FMJ is rather specificly banned. Intent seems to be no military surplus.

Danny, I still think those tough as nails failsafes would be the ticket. According to RS, they act like Barnes X bullets - which means limited expansion and deep penetration. I have an acquantince who swears by them as well.

[Dannyboy]

To make things easy, I just mailed my dies back to my buddy in GA. I ordered a box of 160gr FailSafes and 50 pieces of brass. He's gonna load them to 2800-2900 fps or so. I figure that ought to work well enough.

Thanks for the info. It's appreciated.

[Art Eatman]

Some south Georgia hunters--small-deer country--have complained of Failsafes not expanding. (The cynic in me sez, "Probably gut-shot.")

Anyway, for an STW type of critter, Failsafes sound like a good way to go...

, Art