3/8" AR500?

Mosin-Marauder · July 13, 2015, 09:10 PM

Im thinking of getting an 8" Plate of 3/8" AR500 to shoot my rifles at. Would this hold up to these calibers with no ricochet at 110 Yards? I plan to hang it from a Shepard's hook.

Calibers:
8mm Mauser (some steel core maybe, mostly commercial and handloads)
7.62x54R (Some steel core, mostly reloads)
7.5x55 Swiss (150 Grain Soft Points, fairly mild load)
7.62x51 NATO (FMJ's, 147 Grain)
.223 (No 5.56, mostly Commercial and Reloads)

^Pretty much just my C&R rifles, and my AR. I'd probably replace the target after I started to see a lot of wear.

Thanks!

Regards,

-Mo.

MtnCreek · July 14, 2015, 07:46 AM

Anything with a steel core is either going through or bouncing off. A 3/8 plate will warp quickly. FWIW, a 55gr FMJ from an 18" barrel dings up steel at 100 yds.

NoSecondBest · July 14, 2015, 09:12 AM

I've got several AR500 plates and can't even make a dimple in them. It's not all about thickness, it's a LOT about hardness. For the smaller full jacketed stuff though I might think about going to 1/2" if I were going to shoot a lot at it. However, like I said mine don't even have a dimple in them.

Dragline45 · July 14, 2015, 10:48 AM

The main thing that defeats steel is speed, for example at closer distances 55gr 5.56 M193 will punch through that AR500 steel plate like butter, where the steel core 62gr 5.56 M855 will just crater it despite the steel core because it is moving a bit slower. At 100yds the plate will hold up, but some of the faster rounds will leave small dimples, of course barrel length makes a big difference as well.

SC4006 · July 14, 2015, 11:14 AM

My 3/8" plate has held up for years without any problems. I've shot tons of 7.62x54r at it, some even steel core with no ill effects. As long as you are shooting the plate head on, ricochet is unlikely as the bullets splatter. The fragments from the bullet splattering won't go that far.

Also just FYI, AR500 steel has a brinell hardness of 500 as the name implies. I remember hearing that most of your surplus steel core 54r is going to be around 120 on the hardness scale, much softer. 30-06 M2 AP is in the 700's.

taylorce1 · July 14, 2015, 11:16 AM

The trick to shooting steel is the faster the bullet leaves the barrel the farther you back it up. A lot of the steel shoots in competition like the MV to be less than 3000 fps and some even restrict bore size to .308 or smaller. However there are some that'll allow up to .50 calibers to compete.

Any steel core ammunition is going to beat your plate to death quickly by warping and putting holes through the steel. Same with any high velocity rounds shot at close range. All copper projectiles are bad on AR500 as well when shot at high velocities like they normally are.

So you don't have much of a problem with velocity except your .223 so back up further (200-300 yards) or slow down your reloads for shooting steel at your normal ranges. All your old military rifle and even your .308 will not have any issues as long as you use cup and core bullets. Leave the steel core for shooting paper and you'll be fine.

stagpanther · July 14, 2015, 11:19 AM

Good reminder--I just ordered 2 of the same plates (1/2")--they tossed in a smaller gong for free!

chris in va · July 16, 2015, 01:42 AM

3/8" AR500, 1.5 years of fairly heavy use at 100 yards. Steel jacketed 30-06, FMJ 223, steel jacketed x39 and x54R.

Hard to tell but very little cratering, mostly just tiny divots. The only real shallow crater was from a 300 WinMag. I asked him to do that.

Hey...kinda looks like Pluto!

NoSecondBest · July 16, 2015, 08:52 AM

Disregard any answers from those who don't actually own AR500 or who have no actual experience shooting at it. Most of it's guess work based on shooting non hardened steel plates or just guessing.

stagpanther · July 16, 2015, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Hard to tell but very little cratering, mostly just tiny divots. The only real shallow crater was from a 300 WinMag. I asked him to do that.

Hey...kinda looks like Pluto!

NoSecondBest · July 16, 2015, 03:20 PM

Here's a good read on choosing what steel you need for target shooting and explains the differences.
http://www.moatargets.com/blog/blog/...hooting-needs/

Dragline45 · July 16, 2015, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Disregard any answers from those who don't actually own AR500 or who have no actual experience shooting at it. Most of it's guess work based on shooting non hardened steel plates or just guessing.

Not sure whose comments you are referring to, but I can tell you that I own and have a ton of experience shooting AR500 plates, and have done hours of research since I own AR500 body armor. What I can also tell you is that my comments are 100% factual based on real world results.

emcon5 · July 16, 2015, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragline45

The main thing that defeats steel is speed, for example at closer distances 55gr 5.56 M193 will punch through that AR500 steel plate like butter

While I don't disagree that velocity is what is hard on steel, I really wonder what your definition of "closer distances" is. I punished the hell out of my AR500 steel with M193 at 100 yards, and it just left tiny dimples. It is not something I will do again, but I am not worried about the damage to the plate.

I made the mistake once of shooting one at 100 yards with a 55gr .243 Win, with a MV of ~3500 FPS which cratered it pretty badly, I posted a photo here. Aside from a slightly smaller surface area, that is essentially the same energy (velocity and bullet weight) as M193 at the muzzle. I have a really hard time seeing M193 doing much more damage, let alone punch through "like butter"

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoSecondBest

Here's a good read on choosing what steel you need for target shooting and explains the differences.
http://www.moatargets.com/blog/blog/...hooting-needs/

MOA are local to me, they are good people and make good stuff.

MtnCreek · July 16, 2015, 04:41 PM

Nevermind, I'm too dumb to post pics.

Dragline45 · July 16, 2015, 05:41 PM

Quote:

While I don't disagree that velocity is what is hard on steel, I really wonder what your definition of "closer distances" is. I punished the hell out of my AR500 steel with M193 at 100 yards, and it just left tiny dimples. It is not something I will do again, but I am not worried about the damage to the plate.

When I say closer distances I mean within 20yds. If you read my whole comment, I said the plate will hold up at 100yds, but faster rounds will leave small dimples.

Quote:

I have a really hard time seeing M193 doing much more damage, let alone punch through "like butter"

It will punch a clean perfectly round hole through the plate at close enough distances. The thickness of the plate does make a difference though, as does the distance and barrel length used.

Check out these videos of M193 punching through AR500 level III body armor. This is the reason I sold my level III body armor for the level III+ which will stop M193 even at just a few yards. Keep in mind this is high quality AR500 steel from Ar500Armor.com. Notice in both videos, the slightly heavier 62gr steel core round is moving just a bit slower and lacks the velocity to punch through, thus why I said speed is the determining factor when defeating steel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMYkEMhPsO8&

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1K3wCRjcdM

.

emcon5 · July 17, 2015, 12:29 AM

What was that, maybe 1/4" thick?

I would like to see the same test with a 3/8" AR500 target.

MtnCreek · July 17, 2015, 10:18 AM

I still don't have any clue how to post pictures...

The below link might take you to a photo of a 3/8" AR500 plate that's taken more than a few 55gr FMJ / 5.56 hits at around 30 yds. FWIW, even at 100 yds, there is some dinging of the plate surface.

stagpanther · July 17, 2015, 10:50 AM

I once took a shot with a 357 mag at a dishwasher at about that range and the bullet came right back at me missing my head by inches.

Dragline45 · July 17, 2015, 11:07 AM

Quote:

What was that, maybe 1/4" thick?

I would like to see the same test with a 3/8" AR500 target.

Yeah .26" to be exact, and I would too, I'm sure the thicker plate has a higher threshold to some degree. But one of the questions constantly asked to the company is why don't they have thicker plates rated for higher threats, and they said you would have to increase the thickness pretty dramatically to get enough increased stopping ability where the plate would be far too thick and heavy, which leads me to believe it would need to be at least 1/2". I would love to test it personally, but I don't know how safe I feel shooting one of my 3/8" steel plates at 10yds with my AR, but if I was a betting man, given the clean perfectly round holes punched through those plates, I cant see 3/8" plates holding up much better in CQB distances. It would be a different story if it was a tiny hole that maybe a fragment or two barely worked it's way through, but as can be seen it went clean through and then had enough force after to penetrate well over 12" in ballistic gel.

stagpanther · July 20, 2015, 12:16 PM

Mine just came in and can't wait to use them! : )

tobnpr · July 22, 2015, 10:57 AM

If you're shooting steel at 100 yards, you'd better have the steel suspended correctly. Hanging it from a "shepherd's crook" is a safety nightmare.

Bullet frags are going to ricochet off that steel, and hanging it vertically is asking for something to zing past your head (and hopefully not into it) at some point.

Steel needs to be hung from the back, so that it naturally angles down towards the ground and will direct the fragments down into the dirt.

180 grains or more at 2600+ fps is nothing to sneeze at at 100 yards.

Our local (shorter) range only allows steel at 200M, it's forbidden at 100 yards.

stagpanther · July 22, 2015, 11:32 AM

Quote:

If you're shooting steel at 100 yards, you'd better have the steel suspended correctly. Hanging it from a "shepherd's crook" is a safety nightmare.

Bullet frags are going to ricochet off that steel, and hanging it vertically is asking for something to zing past your head (and hopefully not into it) at some point.

Steel needs to be hung from the back, so that it naturally angles down towards the ground and will direct the fragments down into the dirt.

180 grains or more at 2600+ fps is nothing to sneeze at at 100 yards.

Our local (shorter) range only allows steel at 200M, it's forbidden at 100 yards.

I've had a 357 mag bullet come zinging back at me though it wasn't when shooting at gongs. How do you angle these things when there is no attachment point on the bottom edge?

emcon5 · July 22, 2015, 11:42 AM

Quote:

I've had a 357 mag bullet come zinging back at me though it wasn't when shooting at gongs. How do you angle these things when there is no attachment point on the bottom edge?

For those gongs, hanging from a chain from the back will give them a slight down angle.

stagpanther · July 22, 2015, 11:46 AM

thanks

emcon5 · July 22, 2015, 11:58 AM

What I have done is use a reasonably long bolt, with a washer on the front side, then a stack of 3 or 4 washers in back between the plate and the chain link. With it cantilevered out a bit, it should have a nice down angle, that combined with a chain mount rather than a solid mount will allow the plate to move and absorb some of the energy.

With steel you will never 100% eliminate the chance of fragments, but with that combination, that is probably as good as you can get to reduce risk.

Always wear eye protection.

July 13, 2015, 09:10 PM	#1
Mosin-Marauder Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2014 Location: North Carolina Posts: 2,320	3/8" AR500? Im thinking of getting an 8" Plate of 3/8" AR500 to shoot my rifles at. Would this hold up to these calibers with no ricochet at 110 Yards? I plan to hang it from a Shepard's hook. Calibers: 8mm Mauser (some steel core maybe, mostly commercial and handloads) 7.62x54R (Some steel core, mostly reloads) 7.5x55 Swiss (150 Grain Soft Points, fairly mild load) 7.62x51 NATO (FMJ's, 147 Grain) .223 (No 5.56, mostly Commercial and Reloads) ^Pretty much just my C&R rifles, and my AR. I'd probably replace the target after I started to see a lot of wear. Thanks! Regards, -Mo. __________________ Proud owner of three (four-ish) pieces of history! K-31, Mosin-Nagant M91/30, M24/47 Mauser, Norinco SKS. "You might as well appeal against a thunderstorm..." William Tecumseh Sherman

July 14, 2015, 11:14 AM	#5
SC4006 Senior Member Join Date: June 27, 2012 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 525	My 3/8" plate has held up for years without any problems. I've shot tons of 7.62x54r at it, some even steel core with no ill effects. As long as you are shooting the plate head on, ricochet is unlikely as the bullets splatter. The fragments from the bullet splattering won't go that far. Also just FYI, AR500 steel has a brinell hardness of 500 as the name implies. I remember hearing that most of your surplus steel core 54r is going to be around 120 on the hardness scale, much softer. 30-06 M2 AP is in the 700's. __________________ I don't always go to the range, but when I do, I prefer dosAKs. They say 5 out of 4 people are bad at math.

July 14, 2015, 11:16 AM	#6
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,249	The trick to shooting steel is the faster the bullet leaves the barrel the farther you back it up. A lot of the steel shoots in competition like the MV to be less than 3000 fps and some even restrict bore size to .308 or smaller. However there are some that'll allow up to .50 calibers to compete. Any steel core ammunition is going to beat your plate to death quickly by warping and putting holes through the steel. Same with any high velocity rounds shot at close range. All copper projectiles are bad on AR500 as well when shot at high velocities like they normally are. So you don't have much of a problem with velocity except your .223 so back up further (200-300 yards) or slow down your reloads for shooting steel at your normal ranges. All your old military rifle and even your .308 will not have any issues as long as you use cup and core bullets. Leave the steel core for shooting paper and you'll be fine. __________________ NRA Life Member

July 14, 2015, 11:19 AM	#7
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,789	Good reminder--I just ordered 2 of the same plates (1/2")--they tossed in a smaller gong for free! __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

July 17, 2015, 10:18 AM	#17
MtnCreek Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2010 Posts: 176	I still don't have any clue how to post pictures... The below link might take you to a photo of a 3/8" AR500 plate that's taken more than a few 55gr FMJ / 5.56 hits at around 30 yds. FWIW, even at 100 yds, there is some dinging of the plate surface. Last edited by MtnCreek; July 20, 2015 at 09:15 AM.

July 14, 2015, 07:46 AM	#2
MtnCreek Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2010 Posts: 176	Anything with a steel core is either going through or bouncing off. A 3/8 plate will warp quickly. FWIW, a 55gr FMJ from an 18" barrel dings up steel at 100 yds.

July 14, 2015, 09:12 AM	#3
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	I've got several AR500 plates and can't even make a dimple in them. It's not all about thickness, it's a LOT about hardness. For the smaller full jacketed stuff though I might think about going to 1/2" if I were going to shoot a lot at it. However, like I said mine don't even have a dimple in them.

July 14, 2015, 10:48 AM	#4
Dragline45 Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2010 Posts: 3,513	The main thing that defeats steel is speed, for example at closer distances 55gr 5.56 M193 will punch through that AR500 steel plate like butter, where the steel core 62gr 5.56 M855 will just crater it despite the steel core because it is moving a bit slower. At 100yds the plate will hold up, but some of the faster rounds will leave small dimples, of course barrel length makes a big difference as well.

July 16, 2015, 01:42 AM	#8
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	3/8" AR500, 1.5 years of fairly heavy use at 100 yards. Steel jacketed 30-06, FMJ 223, steel jacketed x39 and x54R. Hard to tell but very little cratering, mostly just tiny divots. The only real shallow crater was from a 300 WinMag. I asked him to do that. Hey...kinda looks like Pluto!

July 16, 2015, 08:52 AM	#9
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	Disregard any answers from those who don't actually own AR500 or who have no actual experience shooting at it. Most of it's guess work based on shooting non hardened steel plates or just guessing.

July 16, 2015, 03:20 PM	#11
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	Here's a good read on choosing what steel you need for target shooting and explains the differences. http://www.moatargets.com/blog/blog/...hooting-needs/

July 16, 2015, 04:41 PM	#14
MtnCreek Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2010 Posts: 176	Nevermind, I'm too dumb to post pics.

July 17, 2015, 12:29 AM	#16
emcon5 Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 1999 Location: High Desert NV Posts: 2,850	What was that, maybe 1/4" thick? I would like to see the same test with a 3/8" AR500 target.

July 17, 2015, 10:50 AM	#18
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,789	I once took a shot with a 357 mag at a dishwasher at about that range and the bullet came right back at me missing my head by inches. __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

July 20, 2015, 12:16 PM	#20
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,789	Mine just came in and can't wait to use them! : ) __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

July 22, 2015, 10:57 AM	#21
tobnpr Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2010 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 4,556	If you're shooting steel at 100 yards, you'd better have the steel suspended correctly. Hanging it from a "shepherd's crook" is a safety nightmare. Bullet frags are going to ricochet off that steel, and hanging it vertically is asking for something to zing past your head (and hopefully not into it) at some point. Steel needs to be hung from the back, so that it naturally angles down towards the ground and will direct the fragments down into the dirt. 180 grains or more at 2600+ fps is nothing to sneeze at at 100 yards. Our local (shorter) range only allows steel at 200M, it's forbidden at 100 yards. __________________ Remington 700/Savage Rebarreling /Action Blueprinting 07 FFL /Mosin-Nagant Custom Shop/Bent Bolts Genuine Cerakote Applicator www.biggorillagunworks.com

July 22, 2015, 11:46 AM	#24
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,789	thanks __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

July 22, 2015, 11:58 AM	#25
emcon5 Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 1999 Location: High Desert NV Posts: 2,850	What I have done is use a reasonably long bolt, with a washer on the front side, then a stack of 3 or 4 washers in back between the plate and the chain link. With it cantilevered out a bit, it should have a nice down angle, that combined with a chain mount rather than a solid mount will allow the plate to move and absorb some of the energy. With steel you will never 100% eliminate the chance of fragments, but with that combination, that is probably as good as you can get to reduce risk. Always wear eye protection.