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Old September 29, 2008, 04:28 PM   #1
443dds
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Shortish / Lightish Shotgun Options?

I'm a pretty small guy: 5'4" and 120lbs, but I like to shoot. I need two shotguns I'm happy with for 75% backyard trap, 15% shooting club, and 10% pheasant hunting. (One is for me, and one is for my wife of near-identical size.)

I have a Mossberg 500 Pump 20GA my father gave to me in high-school, and it is very comfortable to carry/position because the stock and barrel are short. Unfortunately the thing fatigues me fairly fast as it kicks more than I'd like. Possibly I could modify it somehow?

My father also gifted me a Remington 870 Express Magnum Pump 12GA and a Winchester Model 1200 Pump 12GA. The Remington is awesome to shoot and I can shoot the thing all day although it is a little heavy for my wife, but the Model 1200 kicks as much or more than my short-20GA so we don't use that much.

I'd consider putting money into modifying my Mossberg, but the club doesn't like 20GA, so I really need to invest in a new 12GA.

Any recommendations for something capable of not kicking like a mule for us lightweights AND doesn't weigh more than we do? I really don't know a whole lot about barrel lengths, recoil pads, and such, so any advice is appreciated.
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Old September 29, 2008, 05:59 PM   #2
zippy13
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No matter what your size, proper gun fit is the most important element in reducing recoil. Your Shortish / Lightish shotgun is going to be Kickish / Jerkish. A longer and heaver shotgun will swing smoother and kick less.
Quote:
I'd consider putting money into modifying my Mossberg, but the club doesn't like 20GA, so I really need to invest in a new 12GA.
I've never heard of a club not liking a specific gauge, but you hear something new every day. My first shotgun was a 20-ga and I soon traded it in on a more versatile 12-ga.

If you're on a limited budget, there's nothing wrong with another Remington or Mossberg pump. There are plenty of accessories available for both. May I suggest, consider a 12-ga with a 28-inch vent rib barrel with a selection of screw-n chokes. An over-bored trap barrel with a long forcing cone wold be nice. Throw in a stock that's adjustable at the recoil pad and has an adjustable Monte Carlo and you've pretty much got all your bases covered. Later, if so desired, you can add a recoil reducer, like a C &H unit, and/or get your barrel ported to cut some of the kick.
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Old September 29, 2008, 06:40 PM   #3
Edward429451
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Notwithstanding the clubs stupid ideals....I suggest the most excellant Remington 870 Express Youth 20 ga pump. Remington makes great recoil pads and it's already on the gun. 20" barrel, youth sized stock, screw in chokes, does well on the skeet range to my amazement, slugs for HD.

I bought one for my son years ago and he/we couldn't be happier with it. I highly recommend this SG.
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Old September 29, 2008, 06:56 PM   #4
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I keep my eyes peeled for an inexpensive, but well made SxS in 16ga. Ammo cost is what keeps preventing me from jumping on them when I find them.
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Old September 29, 2008, 06:59 PM   #5
cavemapper
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would you sell the 1200
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Old September 29, 2008, 07:15 PM   #6
BigJimP
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The heavier the gun the better - in terms of reducing recoil. But Remington and Beretta both made, and I think still do, in their semi-auto lineups a "youth" or "ladies" model which are gas guns, so they will reduce recoil because the way the action works with the gas from the shell. I don't remember which Remington model it was whether it was an 11-87 or the 1100 - and I don't know if the Beretta was the 390 or the 391 model either - but there are also some of them out there on the used market.

There isn't really any difference in either model - other than the fact that they are lighter, a shorter length of pull, etc - and you may find they fit really well. You will probably find these 2 semi-autos are around 6 lbs - which is very light for a 12ga / and I wouldn't recommend going any lighter by customizing, etc.

On a general purpose gun - I would stay with either a 26" or 28" barrel on a 12ga and if it is balanced well - the length of the barrel won't affect you much in terms of handling. The longer the barrel the better, to a point at least, because it gives you a longer sight plane which is a good thing.
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Old September 29, 2008, 08:29 PM   #7
Wayward_Son
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Remington makes an 870 Express with a 21" barrel and a wood laminate stock. It's available in 12ga and 20ga. The 12ga is an Express Turkey, which is what I have. The believe the 20ga is an Express Junior or perhaps an Express Youth. In any case, the 20ga has a shorter length of pull and actually feels a little bit more comfortable to me (I'm 5'9" and about 155) and it is a half-pound lighter. I'm thinking about buying one as a companion to me 12ga. It's tagged at $299 at my local Gander Mountain. It will accept 2 3/4" and 3" shells. It also feels more lithe and wieldly in my hands than my heavier 12ga.
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Old September 29, 2008, 08:33 PM   #8
443dds
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I like your idea of a gas gun, and maybe I'll do a little research down that avenue. Thanks a ton for the responses so far.

Are the gas guns or auto-loaders generally lighter than their pump counterparts? If I could just get one slightly lighter than my 870 I think my wife would be golden.
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Old September 29, 2008, 09:09 PM   #9
Superhouse 15
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Knoxx

The Knoxx stocks really do work to tame recoil. They have tactical stuff as well as something more traditional looking.
http://www.knoxx.com/products/CompStock.php

Speaking of kicking like a mule, you could try a recoil reducer like the Dead Mule from Brownells. You can install it yourself.
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/sto...dead%20mule&s=

While at Brownells, look for a big, soft recoil pad. The thicker and softer ones will absorb a lot of recoil, but fit of the gun is also very important to your comfort and the big ones may make the gun too long. To shorten the stock and install the pad you may need to see the gunsmith. If you have some woodworking skill and some basic tools, or an adventurous spirit, you could probably do this yourself too, though.
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/sto...e=RECOIL%20PAD
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/sto...20RECOIL%20PAD
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/sto...0RECOIL%20PADS

I charge about $20 or so to install, depending on shop time. If it's worth that o you, have it done. If you mess it up, well it's a Mossberg 500 not a Perazzi, ok?
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Old September 29, 2008, 09:21 PM   #10
zippy13
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Quote:
Are the gas guns or auto-loaders generally lighter than their pump counterparts? If I could just get one slightly lighter than my 870 I think my wife would be golden.
I just did a quick look at the Remington catalog, for 12-ga models (these aren't the lightest but are very similarly equipped): The 870 Wingmaster Classic Trap has an average weight of 8-pounds and the 1100 Classic Trap is 4-ounces more. A 20-ga 870 Express Jr. is two pounds lighter at 6-pounds. Don't forget, the gas system of the 1100/11-87 (like the Beretta 390/391) is going to significantly reduce kick.
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Old September 29, 2008, 10:15 PM   #11
Smitty in CT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 443dds
I like your idea of a gas gun, and maybe I'll do a little research down that avenue. Thanks a ton for the responses so far.

Are the gas guns or auto-loaders generally lighter than their pump counterparts? If I could just get one slightly lighter than my 870 I think my wife would be golden.
I bought my son a Mossberg International SA-20 a few months ago, it's a small gun and a soft shooter, it's basically a Beretta 30X clone.

Here's a pic of it next to my 930:



Here's a link to the review:

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=143986
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Old September 29, 2008, 11:26 PM   #12
.300 Weatherby Mag
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Autos,
Benelli:
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/prod...ducts_id=30707
Beretta:
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/prod...ducts_id=99048
Browning:
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/prod...ucts_id=103912
Remington:
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/prod...ducts_id=84882

Pumps,
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/prod...ducts_id=84872
I recommend one of the new lightweight wingmaster 870's... Put a limbsaver pad on it and you are good to go... Generally, mine is the gun that the people of smaller stature enjoy shooting the most.... I still have the factory hard rubber pad on it... And its still tolerable for girls and others that are fairly recoil sensitive to shoot with light skeet loads in it....
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Old October 1, 2008, 11:38 PM   #13
rugerfreak
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How about a youth stock for the 870? The OEM one has a LOP of 13'' and comes with a R3 pad----$60 from Midway. They only come in black syn though.
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Old October 2, 2008, 07:16 AM   #14
Dave McC
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One more simple option would be lighter loads.

I make and use 7/8 oz 12 gauge loads. These bust clays and kill birds well and are creampuffs to shoot. Lots of makers now offer them, including Remington, Winchester, Federal and Fiocchi.

The box stores don't carry them, but they are available.

Please got the gun your wife likes fitted to her. I'd rather shoot a Mossberg that fits than a Purdey that didn't.
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Old October 2, 2008, 03:07 PM   #15
oneounceload
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you want heavier, not lighter, if recoil is your issue...a nice 12 gauge gas gun with light loads will do wonderful things as long as you have the stock the correct for your size
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Old October 3, 2008, 10:52 AM   #16
bcarver
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physics 101

As said above. The lighter guns with heavy loads kick more.
The gas and inertia driven autoloaders are the way to go.
The energy used to work the action does not end up on your shoulder.
Also the recoil is spread over more time.
Proper fit and tecnique allows you to tolerate the most recoil.
Knox stock does this. The springs in the stock absorb recoil and the time is expanded. Mercury filled recoil reducers work the same way.
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Old October 3, 2008, 12:11 PM   #17
oletymer
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Also look at the Browning Silver micro and the BPS micro. Either of them should fit you and they are under 7 lbs.
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