When does it start working?

Wayfarin'Stranger · July 14, 2007, 12:34 AM

I have ran about 2 hoppers worth of Unique through my Lee Perfect Powder Measure, and it is still throwing inconsistant charges.

I would assume everything is coated in graphite by now, but I keep getting variations of around +/- .6 grains every few throws.

So when does it start being more consistant?

Gunfixr · July 14, 2007, 08:01 AM

Mine was good from the beginning. Where the hopper turns to close and open, is it all the way open? Or partially open?

DMZX · July 14, 2007, 08:35 AM

I have ran a good deal of Unique through mine and check the charge every 20 or so. It is consistently accurate.

Are you using the old Unique formula?

Wayfarin'Stranger · July 14, 2007, 01:23 PM

I'm not sure if it's an old Unique formula or not....just bought it at Wal Mart a few weeks ago.

The hopper is all the way open as well. I'll probaly put another run of powder through it today and see if it starts throwing a little more consistantly.

Hook686 · July 14, 2007, 01:49 PM

... in that I too load Unique, for .357 magnum. I now use 7.7 grains, with 158 grain JSP, and get 7.4 to 8.1 grain weight, when I check loadings. That strikes me as a pretty big spread. Often the weights are 7.7, 7.5, 7.9, 7.8, 7.7, 7.6, 7.4, 7.7, 7.6, 7.7, 8.0, 7.7, 7.7, 7.8, 8.1, ....

The range is pretty random and consistent only in the inconsistentcy. Since I'm not a bullseye shooter, I do not get too excited about the variance. I have not hit 8.4 grains, which would be above the max load in my manual, nor below 7.4 grains, for a light load.

I like Unique and the loadings do just fine on the steel plate targets on Saturday, at the local range.

**Mal H** · July 14, 2007, 02:32 PM

Sounds like Lee needs to rename their powder measure.

A 1.2 grain range of loads is unacceptable. That is, asuming that's what you meant when you said "+/- .6 grains". Even a .6 grain range is unacceptable. I start checking things when my RCBS Uniflow throws loads at +- .2 grains, including with Unique.

Try a finer powder like any of the Accurate numbered powders - #2, 5, 7, 9. Those are the standard to use to check the accuracy of a powder measure without having the powder itself be a cause of inaccuracy.

Ifishsum · July 14, 2007, 02:40 PM

I've never been able to get Unique to meter well in my Lee PPM. I set it up to throw a tad light, then trickle it up to where I want it. Unique has a reputation for being inaccurate in measures.

Wayfarin'Stranger · July 14, 2007, 03:46 PM

Okay, I didn't know Unique wasn't the best thing to use in powder measures....I'll try another powder.

JDG · July 14, 2007, 06:02 PM

Lee says to remove the plastic stop, so the measure can go full vertical, but you won't be able to run the measure on a press. Most people have it screwed to the bench, so it wont matter. I did it to mine, and it helps

DMZX · July 14, 2007, 06:11 PM

Maybe that is why I have not had any problems with my PPM using Unique.

It is not mounted on the press and I double tap it while I charge a case.

shepherddogs · July 14, 2007, 07:08 PM

Make sure the measure cycles completely out over the case. I use the through the expander die feature and it will throw light charges if the shell case is too short or the die is improperly adjusted. In other words how far out the measure slides is dependent on case length and die adjustment. If it doesn't slide all the way out the measure will not always empty completely throwing a light charge. I get +or- .1 which is plenty close for most requirements.

shepherddogs · July 14, 2007, 07:13 PM

My bad. I thought you were talking about the auto disk measure.

amamnn · July 14, 2007, 07:33 PM

It starts when you switch to W231 -- or switch to a PACT dispenser/scale combo.

Stargazer · July 14, 2007, 08:15 PM

I "bump" mine 3 times on the bottom stroke and twice on the up stroke. So far this has served me well as to consistent powder throws. I use 7.8 grains behind a 158 JHP myself. Right at the lower "magnum" range and good economy too.

crowbeaner · July 14, 2007, 08:27 PM

Any time I use Unique to load pistol cartridges I use my old RCBS Uniflow to charge the cases. If I have to, I put it on my Dillon 450 and use it instead of the Dillon powder measure to keep the charge to charge variation as close to nill as possible. 1/2 grain variation is too large and therefore unacceptable, whether over or under the desired charge. I can readily recommend AA#5 as a substitute for Unique, and have used up an 8# jug to start with. It measures like a dream, and the shot to shot consistency is excellent. WW 231 should work well also. I still have (5) 1 lb. cans of WW 630 unopened just to make you jealous.

buckster · July 15, 2007, 12:30 AM

JDG, I've been thinking of doing that with mine, do you use the other release cam with the chain? Pictures? I've been just using the scale and a funnel, but the powder measure came with it, so I'd like to use it to increase production.

amamnn · July 15, 2007, 12:39 AM

The idea of running a few charges though the measure to get it "primed" is because most powders have a graphite coating that helps to lube the moving parts and seal up spaces and nooks and crannies that allow powder to "hide" in the measure. Unique does not have much of a coating. A lot of old timers will tell you to run some "white graphite" (fine ground mica) through a new measure before using it to do this. As a certified member of the geezer squad I can tell you that this works, but the effectiveness of this trick is directly related to the type and age of the measure and type of powder. It also has to be repeated from time to time. The new scale/dispensers whether PACT or RCBS or Lyman do not need to be treated and are much more accurate than any volumetric measure can ever dream of being.

James A. Mullins · July 15, 2007, 04:19 AM

Just a thought, are the bottoms of the charge holes clean? Meaning of clean, is there any feathering around the charge holes. I use several Lee perfect measuring sets, and have found some in that condition. I used a large counter sink to just break the edge. I hone the cutting edge razor sharp.
Cheers
James

**44 AMP** · July 15, 2007, 04:30 AM

RCBS for one. Or even the old Lyman #55 measure. I have been using an RCBS for over 25 years, and found it to be very consistent, even with Unique.

You can get a little trouble from the longer IMR type powders bridging, but I always throw a grain or two light, and bring it up with a trickler.

I will admit to being biased, I don't use Lee. Wonder why? Just look at this forum, and you will see a lot of posts about "how do I get my Lee xxxxx to work?"

Lee tools are cheapest, and can work, but I have always found them more of a pain in the .....than other brands. Lyman and RCBS cost a little more, but have given me less aggravation. Your choice, but for me the little bit of extra money is worth it.

**Mike Irwin** · July 15, 2007, 04:08 PM

Flake powders like Red Dot and Unique have never metered well in my Lee Pro Disk measure.

Unique also doesn't meter particularly well in my RCBS Uniflow, either.

I quit using Unique years ago because of that.

In fact, when I was up in Pennsylvania over July 4th I found my half can of Unique that I picked up when I worked for NRA.

I'll probably run the rest of it through the shotshell loader and say goodby to it.

Brutus · July 15, 2007, 08:51 PM

Unique has always been one of my favorite pistol powders. After using it for a little over 30 years here’s a trick I learned. Being a large flake powder whenever I reload with it I change out the handgun barrel of my RCBS powder dispenser and replace it with the larger orifice rifle one. The larger orifice dispenses flake powders much more uniformly. It only took about 5 years of trickle charging before I accidentally left the rifle unit in, suddenly no more trickle charging required.

July 14, 2007, 12:34 AM	#1
Wayfarin'Stranger Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: Minot, ND Posts: 115	When does it start working? I have ran about 2 hoppers worth of Unique through my Lee Perfect Powder Measure, and it is still throwing inconsistant charges. I would assume everything is coated in graphite by now, but I keep getting variations of around +/- .6 grains every few throws. So when does it start being more consistant?

July 14, 2007, 07:33 PM	#13
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	It starts when you switch to W231 -- or switch to a PACT dispenser/scale combo. __________________ "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal

July 14, 2007, 08:15 PM	#14
Stargazer Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Posts: 506	I "bump" mine 3 times on the bottom stroke and twice on the up stroke. So far this has served me well as to consistent powder throws. I use 7.8 grains behind a 158 JHP myself. Right at the lower "magnum" range and good economy too. __________________ 5.56mm, reach out and touch something. .458 SOCOM,reach out and knock something down. M70 Web Page

July 15, 2007, 12:30 AM	#16
buckster Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2006 Posts: 674	Lee poowder measure JDG, I've been thinking of doing that with mine, do you use the other release cam with the chain? Pictures? I've been just using the scale and a funnel, but the powder measure came with it, so I'd like to use it to increase production.

July 15, 2007, 12:39 AM	#17
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	but seriously.......... The idea of running a few charges though the measure to get it "primed" is because most powders have a graphite coating that helps to lube the moving parts and seal up spaces and nooks and crannies that allow powder to "hide" in the measure. Unique does not have much of a coating. A lot of old timers will tell you to run some "white graphite" (fine ground mica) through a new measure before using it to do this. As a certified member of the geezer squad I can tell you that this works, but the effectiveness of this trick is directly related to the type and age of the measure and type of powder. It also has to be repeated from time to time. The new scale/dispensers whether PACT or RCBS or Lyman do not need to be treated and are much more accurate than any volumetric measure can ever dream of being. __________________ "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal

July 14, 2007, 08:01 AM	#2
Gunfixr Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: East Coast, USA Posts: 360	Mine was good from the beginning. Where the hopper turns to close and open, is it all the way open? Or partially open? __________________ NRA Life, Glock Advanced Armorer Gunsmith for Unique Armament Creations, 07/SOT

July 14, 2007, 08:35 AM	#3
DMZX Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2007 Location: E. Oregon Posts: 563	I have ran a good deal of Unique through mine and check the charge every 20 or so. It is consistently accurate. Are you using the old Unique formula?

July 14, 2007, 01:23 PM	#4
Wayfarin'Stranger Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: Minot, ND Posts: 115	I'm not sure if it's an old Unique formula or not....just bought it at Wal Mart a few weeks ago. The hopper is all the way open as well. I'll probaly put another run of powder through it today and see if it starts throwing a little more consistantly.

July 14, 2007, 01:49 PM	#5
Hook686 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2005 Location: USA The Great State of California Posts: 2,090	I doubt that you are Unique ... ... in that I too load Unique, for .357 magnum. I now use 7.7 grains, with 158 grain JSP, and get 7.4 to 8.1 grain weight, when I check loadings. That strikes me as a pretty big spread. Often the weights are 7.7, 7.5, 7.9, 7.8, 7.7, 7.6, 7.4, 7.7, 7.6, 7.7, 8.0, 7.7, 7.7, 7.8, 8.1, .... The range is pretty random and consistent only in the inconsistentcy. Since I'm not a bullseye shooter, I do not get too excited about the variance. I have not hit 8.4 grains, which would be above the max load in my manual, nor below 7.4 grains, for a light load. I like Unique and the loadings do just fine on the steel plate targets on Saturday, at the local range. __________________ Hook686 When the number of people in institutions reaches 51%, we change sides.

July 14, 2007, 02:32 PM	#6
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,947	Sounds like Lee needs to rename their powder measure. A 1.2 grain range of loads is unacceptable. That is, asuming that's what you meant when you said "+/- .6 grains". Even a .6 grain range is unacceptable. I start checking things when my RCBS Uniflow throws loads at +- .2 grains, including with Unique. Try a finer powder like any of the Accurate numbered powders - #2, 5, 7, 9. Those are the standard to use to check the accuracy of a powder measure without having the powder itself be a cause of inaccuracy.

July 14, 2007, 02:40 PM	#7
Ifishsum Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,033	I've never been able to get Unique to meter well in my Lee PPM. I set it up to throw a tad light, then trickle it up to where I want it. Unique has a reputation for being inaccurate in measures.

July 14, 2007, 03:46 PM	#8
Wayfarin'Stranger Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: Minot, ND Posts: 115	Okay, I didn't know Unique wasn't the best thing to use in powder measures....I'll try another powder.

July 14, 2007, 06:02 PM	#9
JDG Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: West Michigan Posts: 673	Lee says to remove the plastic stop, so the measure can go full vertical, but you won't be able to run the measure on a press. Most people have it screwed to the bench, so it wont matter. I did it to mine, and it helps

July 14, 2007, 06:11 PM	#10
DMZX Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2007 Location: E. Oregon Posts: 563	Maybe that is why I have not had any problems with my PPM using Unique. It is not mounted on the press and I double tap it while I charge a case.

July 14, 2007, 07:08 PM	#11
shepherddogs Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Posts: 1,007	Make sure the measure cycles completely out over the case. I use the through the expander die feature and it will throw light charges if the shell case is too short or the die is improperly adjusted. In other words how far out the measure slides is dependent on case length and die adjustment. If it doesn't slide all the way out the measure will not always empty completely throwing a light charge. I get +or- .1 which is plenty close for most requirements.

July 14, 2007, 07:13 PM	#12
shepherddogs Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Posts: 1,007	My bad. I thought you were talking about the auto disk measure.

July 14, 2007, 08:27 PM	#15
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	Any time I use Unique to load pistol cartridges I use my old RCBS Uniflow to charge the cases. If I have to, I put it on my Dillon 450 and use it instead of the Dillon powder measure to keep the charge to charge variation as close to nill as possible. 1/2 grain variation is too large and therefore unacceptable, whether over or under the desired charge. I can readily recommend AA#5 as a substitute for Unique, and have used up an 8# jug to start with. It measures like a dream, and the shot to shot consistency is excellent. WW 231 should work well also. I still have (5) 1 lb. cans of WW 630 unopened just to make you jealous.

July 15, 2007, 04:19 AM	#18
James A. Mullins Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2006 Location: Vancouver Washington Posts: 124	Just a thought, are the bottoms of the charge holes clean? Meaning of clean, is there any feathering around the charge holes. I use several Lee perfect measuring sets, and have found some in that condition. I used a large counter sink to just break the edge. I hone the cutting edge razor sharp. Cheers James

July 15, 2007, 04:30 AM	#19
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,811	Get a better measure RCBS for one. Or even the old Lyman #55 measure. I have been using an RCBS for over 25 years, and found it to be very consistent, even with Unique. You can get a little trouble from the longer IMR type powders bridging, but I always throw a grain or two light, and bring it up with a trickler. I will admit to being biased, I don't use Lee. Wonder why? Just look at this forum, and you will see a lot of posts about "how do I get my Lee xxxxx to work?" Lee tools are cheapest, and can work, but I have always found them more of a pain in the .....than other brands. Lyman and RCBS cost a little more, but have given me less aggravation. Your choice, but for me the little bit of extra money is worth it. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

July 15, 2007, 04:08 PM	#20
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	Flake powders like Red Dot and Unique have never metered well in my Lee Pro Disk measure. Unique also doesn't meter particularly well in my RCBS Uniflow, either. I quit using Unique years ago because of that. In fact, when I was up in Pennsylvania over July 4th I found my half can of Unique that I picked up when I worked for NRA. I'll probably run the rest of it through the shotshell loader and say goodby to it. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

July 15, 2007, 08:51 PM	#21
Brutus Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Posts: 1,023	Unique has always been one of my favorite pistol powders. After using it for a little over 30 years here’s a trick I learned. Being a large flake powder whenever I reload with it I change out the handgun barrel of my RCBS powder dispenser and replace it with the larger orifice rifle one. The larger orifice dispenses flake powders much more uniformly. It only took about 5 years of trickle charging before I accidentally left the rifle unit in, suddenly no more trickle charging required.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search