Four-legged tactics and training

[Neophyte]

Sorry for the OT, but:

I live on the 3rd floor of a complex, my second floor neighbor beneath me happened to accidentally walk into my apartment one evening

Er, with all due respect drjeffrock, do I need to point out the very bad thing indicated here? Yeek.

[springmom]

Take your dog to an outdoor range. See how accurately you can shoot a handgun while also holding onto the leash and a (presumably) tugging dog.

Kneeling on the leash? What happens when Fido decides that you want to play, or walks in front of your pointed weapon?

IMHO, drop the leash and let the dog go; worry more about the person you are about to shoot, and about what is behind him or her

.....because if I took my two idjits to an outdoor range, I wouldn't have dogs anymore, they'd run to Mars. Remember the guy with the Mini 14?????? LOL????

Seriously, I do see your point, Fremmer, and I certainly can't fault anybody who would do that; it might or might not create fewer problems. Until it happens, we couldn't know if Fido might run or turn around and hide behind you and trip you or who knows what.

It's been a fun thread, though... and somebody send me one of those $15K GSD's willya

Springmom

[RsqVet]

Stage2- Just to clarify, the idea of protection “light” was in reference to training or cultivation of protective or aggressive behavior in a dog --- the point being that there is no way to do this in a “light: manner, folks keep mentioning “I don’t need a police K9” well of that I am sure, more specifically you don’t need a dog trained in tracking, area searches, explosives or narcotic detection etc. however what you are still talking about is a dog trained to protect it’s handler, this by definition requires the cultivation of aggression in your dog, and as a consequence if one is going to cultivate aggression in a dog then the only responsible way to do it is in formalized training with a responsible mentor, there is no way around this, no “light” form of such training. I’m no suggesting that every protection trained dog be a super dog, in fact you would be surprised at how much police dog skills vary, what I am suggesting it that just as there are people who by virtue of their inherent psychological make up are not cut out for special forces, law enforcement or CCW, there are many dogs who are not cut out to be trained to be aggressive, and if we do bring out their aggressiveness and they go astray it’s our fault. Furthermore the process by which one does this is not simple, nor intuitive so it’s essential that anyone who wants to finds a good mentor to learn from.

Springmom --- I believe that the picture of a poodle team can be found in either the older edition of “ Good Dog, Bad Dog” or at: http://home.gci.net/~poodlesleddog/

JD Little – you might want to try Loyds, yes of London, they were receptive to this thing in the past. The restrictions are stupid and lead to all sorts of BS about “mixes” and so forth in attempts to avoid such stupid discrimination.

Another important point to remember about breeds is to match a breed’s likes to your likes and lifestyle, one of our number one problems is unemployed working dogs, i.e. you may love the way a GSD looks and have all the money to buy one of the best ones out there, but if you work in an office and expect that dog, breed explicitly for work and energy to sit at home and twiddle it’s paws all day while you are at work you may be very unhappy to see what a GSD can do to a set of leather furniture. Another common problem is folks who think a breed is cute but don’t understand there nature --- people who expect Bulldogs to be able to jog with them and other such foolishness.

BTW the price of 15-18k for a trained GSD reflects primarily the cost of training, the best puppy out of some of the finest breeding stock and programs in the world will still only set one back about 3K (don’t ask how I know that but if any one wants to know who I would recommend I can post that info), so the cost of 10-15k ought to give a sense of the time and effort it takes for this sort of training. Of course on the subject of puppies buyer beware is always a important thing if one chooses to buy a dog as interestingly enough if one goes to some of the mall pet stores they can have the honor of paying 3k for a puppy from some of the worst puppy mills in the nation. Price and breed registration are meaningless in this country, you have to find a worth while person who is in dog sports for the right reason and who is just as interested and critical of you as you are of them

Of course rescue and shelters is almost always a better option for most people and you would be amazed at the quality, variety and love one can find out there waiting.

Drjeffrock ---- thanks for helping out all those lonely Akitas, they are great dogs, who had the misfortunate of having a spike in popularity a few years back so everyone jumped on the band wagon and got one on impulse and a short time latter there were quite a few out there in shelters when they had previously been a rarer breed. Your stories are the tip of the iceberg in the annals of human stupidity that could be related --- from people who have asked if I could pull down the testicle on a dog who had only one descended so he could breed it to the dog’s sister, to choke chains imbedded in the neck by 3 inches with the smell of rotting flesh, to people who believed that orange Shasta would worm their puppy (breeder told them it’s the combination of dye and bubbles that gets those nasty worms), to obvious dog fighters who themselves are bandaged up from gun fights, but then I digress….

[Fremmer]

A very good thread started by Springmom. Good job!!!

[drjeffrock]

Neo, my old lady and I had a come to Jesus meeting after that regarding keeping the front door locked. Thank goodness it was a stand-up family man with 3 kids, and not some gangsta thug coming into my place.
If anyone is interested in reading up on dog training basics, I highly recommend Patricia McConnell's The Other End of the Leash.

[Croker Island]

I am lucky enough to be able to live with my dogs (two American Bulldogs - Johnson type) and have them with me at work all day. They are extremely perceptive of my temperament and how I react to my environment. I believe a person who shows insecurity in their environment will give confused messages to their animal. This is not to say you have to be overpowering in every situation for your dog to get clear direction but as leader of the pack offer quiet confidence. My dog "taco" offered great assistance to me while visiting the Gold Coast (Australian equivalent of Miami) two weeks ago. A bloke offered to knock my head off in a public car park, which did not worry me overly except for the potential visit to court that always follows when some jerk gets what coming to them. Taco imediately woke from his sleep in the back seat and before I could negotiate a more diplomatic outcome, Taco had taken matters into his own hands/paws, and did a bit of his own negotiating (the arm shoulder and neck area mainly) which diluted the situation instantaneously. I was so proud of him, I nearly cried.. The other guy did cry. Bystanders that saw this mans outburst were so impressed with Taco's effort, they want to buy his pups. After that we had a couple of fabulous days at the beach. BFFE (best friends forever)
What I got from this is the connection between a person and their dog is a lot deeper than people think, you need to treat them as another human being..don't worry they will understand you..

By the way, both my dogs will let children climb on them, pull their 'bits and pieces' and be completely happy, once they have had enough they find a spot out of the way.

[Capt. Charlie]

First and foremost Croker, a hardy welcome to TFL! There are a number of other Aussies here as well.

What I got from this is the connection between a person and their dog is a lot deeper than people think, you need to treat them as another human being..don't worry they will understand you..

You know, when I consider my dog's insight into my thoughts and emotions, it seems almost supernatural at times. Either they are far more observant than we are, or there is another sense we're not aware of at work.

My first German Shepherd was a washout from the military (long story, but she was labeled a coward with no aggressive tendencies whatsoever) I was told not to depend on her in a pinch. No big deal; I wanted a family pet, not a guard dog. We bonded very tightly, and about a year after I got her, I took her for a walk around midnight. The alley was dark, and I didn't see the guy that stepped out behind us with a 2x4 in hand. He didn't see her. She did see him. She hit the end of the lead so hard it was jerked from my hand and proceeded to remove a pound or two from his backside. I later told those I got her from the story, and they didn't believe me.

Almost any dog worth his salt will willingly die for his master. It's just the way they are. I really, really miss that old girl .

[Skyguy]

Almost any dog worth his salt will willingly die for his master. It's just the way they are.

I can swear to that. Our scout dogs in nam were brave heros. They saved lives. They sensed things that we missed. They stopped/signaled at booby traps, mines, snipers, ambushes. They were KIA, too.

So sad that they were handed off to new handlers and were never able to retire or come to the USA.

[Croker Island]

Thanks Capt Charlie. Skyguy, my sympathies that you didn't get to see out the lives of those dogs. If there was more people with the spine these dogs have, the world would be a better place.
Any way I'm off to chase some pigs with Taco and Burritto now, they love it!

[tanksoldier]

If the situation arises where you have to draw your weapon, the doggie is expendable even to the point of being shot by the BG or even by a PO.

I love my dog, he's the greatest... but he's not more important than my life. If I'm drawing down on a BG I don't have time to give complex orders or handsignals, I have to focus on the threat.

My dog's instinct (he's a Rot/ Ridgeback mix) is clearly to close with and engage an identified threat... he's especially protective of my wife. I'm better off using that instinct as a second weapons system and distraction than I am trying to train it out of him... even if it costs him his life.