|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
April 9, 2012, 04:24 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 1, 2011
Location: Texas, land of Tex-Mex
Posts: 2,259
|
pistol coming off safety with IWB carry
Has this happened to anyone else? I have a Kimber 1911 with a moderately stiff safety.
I’m shifting from one of those people who didn't have one in the chamber to cocked and locked. Normal carry is via either a simple Galco slider or a much more expensive IWB rig that completely covers the safety and top part of the pistol (including hammer to protect form moisture I think and be more comfortable). Both rigs are made for the specific Kimber model. On windy days or more dressy wear the IWB is called for. Anyway, after seeing multiple discussions and children getting older, I decided to try for cocked and locked format. As an interim to get comfortable I had it cocked and locked (condition 1?) but no round in the chamber for a week to prove to myself that the thing wouldn't go off. That went well with the Galco, so shifted to full condition 1. Galco is great. However with the IWB, twice the Kimber has come off the manual safety. I didn't freak because its a quality holster on the trigger parts, and of course the grip safety, but it surprised me. Has this happened to other people? Is this common? I'm not saying I am going back but its a definite surprise. |
April 10, 2012, 08:45 AM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 11,061
|
If your holster kicks the safety off, its time for a new holster.
__________________
Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071 |
April 10, 2012, 08:59 AM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 1, 2011
Location: Texas, land of Tex-Mex
Posts: 2,259
|
Thats what I was thinking, but I wasn't sure if that was common, or just me and that holster.
|
April 10, 2012, 09:10 AM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 3, 2011
Posts: 1,368
|
Doesn't matter if its common. New holster time.
|
April 10, 2012, 09:28 AM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 1, 2011
Location: Texas, land of Tex-Mex
Posts: 2,259
|
And I really liked that one.
It must be the leather piece over the safety. Its strange, because I've not heard of this happening to others or this particular item (MTAC). |
April 10, 2012, 12:05 PM | #6 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 23, 1999
Posts: 498
|
Quote:
Old school Standard (original Colt) safety levers are much less susceptible to the issue, although it can happen with them as well. I've carried 1911s of various configurations for CCW. LEO, and Military use since 1975. Extensively. I'm pretty much a life-long 1911 user. In recent memory, I carried one on average for about 16-17 hours a day during three tours to Iraq (2007-2011). I still carry one today for civilian CCW. Years ago, in tune with then current gun fashion, I would have my 1911s configured with after-market ambidextrous paddles, during a time when factory guns didn't come with that option. I gradually grew to dislike the feature. I've found that 1911 ambidextrous safeties (especially those with extended lever paddles) habitually disengage due to external pressures against 1) the safety itself or 2) the holster body (which then transmits that pressure, flipping the safety off). This has tended to be a reality in my world whether I was carrying IWB, OWB, Belt Slide, Flap, Shoulder, Belt Clip, Mexican Carry, Vest Mounted, Belt Duty Holster, or Drop Tactical Hard-shell. It has happened whether I was using holsters made of Kydex, cowhide, horsehide, ballistic nylon, or hard polymer. One of my worst offender holsters is a Safariland 6004 hard shell tactical holster worn at various times either on the thigh or low-ride off of a duty belt. That superb holster does not flex, but it still allows "things" to engage against the safety from the open top of the holster. And any pressure against the hammer area or butt of the holstered gun can move the gun slightly, causing an extended safety to rub against the inside of the hard shell...and disengage. I had an old DeSantis OWB Speed Scabbard back in the 80's (when it was a cutting edge design), that I used for CCW...the safety would come off. Likewise with a favorite Galco OWB that I wore overseas. Likewise with a GI M7 leather shoulder holster...and both GI 1916 and Bianchi M12 flap holsters...although safety disengagement is a fairly rare occurrence in a flap design. The only guaranteed solution I've seen is a Kydex holster with a molded channel that fits over (and immobilizes) the safety lever (in the Safe position). It ain't moving until you clear the holster. The version I saw was a DIY example by a holster builder on another forum. Brilliant work, but not commercially available. The 1911 just provides more opportunity for the safety to move because of it's design. When carried, any downward angled pressure against a large safety paddle only has to overcome the safety detent friction that keeps it from lowering. It has a very small arc of travel between "Safe" and "Fire". By way of comparison, I've never seen the much smaller and stiffer safety on a BHP accidentally disengage. Nor the lower profile Safety/Decocker of an M9 Beretta, which also requires a larger arc of movement (against a stronger spring) between functional positions. On the other hand, that very 1911 safety is so ideally set up for in-hand manipulation and weapon firing, that I can certainly live with the occasional holster hiccup. My 1911's safety (on various guns) has disengaged while rappelling down buildings or off of helicopters; while mounting and dismounting armored vehicles; while driving up-armored executive protection vehicles; while patrolling across forests, deserts, jungles, and mountains; while conducting live assaults and raids; while conducting foot chases; while climbing over fences, windowsills, and rooftops; while wrestling with perps, fighting people in bars, and chasing folks through alleys; and while simply passing through doorways, tight passages, or bumping a hip into furniture. It has happened frequently during the simple act of fastening and wearing seat belts in all manner of vehicles and aircraft. I've had 1911 ambi-safeties flipped off just in the normal course of sitting in various chairs in offices. I've had that safety become disengaged while hitting prone under fire or low crawling. It has happened to me in training, both on flat ranges and in shoot houses. And I've had that safety get disengaged by some lovely's hip on a crowded elevator or a too-close bar stool. No big deal, and I just flip it back on. I understand how a 1911's redundant safety features work...I simply prefer that my manual 1911 safety stay put. Standard single side safeties mostly do. A lot of this has to do with actual holster profile. A lot has to do with physical activity during wear. And a lot has to do with body type. Love handles tend to press on 1911 holster sweat shields (or safety paddles) from the inside. Mine do (and I'm not anywhere close to being a trophy Dunlop Disease sufferer). As you noted, you still have a well protected trigger and a functioning grip safety. The first time that event occurred in my holster, my hair stood on end when I discovered it. Nowadays, I just periodically check it throughout the course of the day and drive on. No big deal.
__________________
Figure The Odds... Last edited by Chindo18Z; April 10, 2012 at 06:24 PM. |
|
April 10, 2012, 12:34 PM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 3, 2011
Posts: 1,368
|
I bet if you contact the holster maker they will take care of it for you. They can probably trim something somewhere to fix it. Otherwise, if they are as reputable as I suspect they are, they'll probably give you credit towards something you can use safely.
|
April 10, 2012, 12:36 PM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 1, 2011
Location: Texas, land of Tex-Mex
Posts: 2,259
|
Thank you. That is very helpful. As soon as you typed "extended safety" my eyes lit up. The Kimber has an extended safety (and I like it).
|
April 14, 2012, 10:40 AM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 18, 2009
Location: Central Colorado
Posts: 1,001
|
I have a Colt New Agent in a Crossbreed supertuck, an it has never come off safety yet (it has the normal size safety, but i've never rappelled out of a helicopter ). My wife also keeps a Sig P238 in her purse in it's own compartment (which works surprisingly well), and she has kept it in condition 3 for a while, and ha recently moved it to condition one after seeing that the safety has never came off on her. I'm buying an integrated holster as well, to ensure that it can stay that way.
__________________
Those who hammer their swords into plow shares will plow for those who didn't... |
April 14, 2012, 04:37 PM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 1, 2001
Posts: 10,223
|
I carried a 1911 IWB for years, and regardless of holster make or type, I would find the safety off at the end of the day on a pretty regular basis. 99% of my guns were stock Colts, with the standard safety too.
If you think about it, its really a non issue if its in a holster. Generally the grip safeties work (Id check yours anyway, Ive had a number that didnt, including my last Kimber), which adds another level of safety, and the trigger is covered by the holster anyway. |
April 16, 2012, 07:31 AM | #11 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: August 10, 2004
Location: Plain Ol', TX
Posts: 713
|
Quote:
I will not carry a 1911 with an ambi safety, and I will only use a holster with a sweatguard that is molded/boned with a thumb safety indentation. Quote:
__________________
-A conclusion is not a destination, it's simply a convenient place to stop thinking.- -Reading a thing doesn't automatically make it so; repeating it doesn't necessarily make it any truer.- -Every Texan should be a member of the Texas State Rifle Association. Last edited by rbernie; April 16, 2012 at 05:47 PM. |
||
April 16, 2012, 07:54 AM | #12 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 1, 2011
Location: Texas, land of Tex-Mex
Posts: 2,259
|
Quote:
|
|
April 16, 2012, 08:31 AM | #13 |
Member
Join Date: October 20, 2008
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 46
|
I had this issue with EMP, but I was using a holster made for generic compact 1911.
Ordered one made for EMP from TTgunleather and no issues with safety. But compared to some other 1911s the safety was lighter on this model. |
April 16, 2012, 09:47 AM | #14 |
Staff
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 9,471
|
I carry concealed whenever I legally can, and it's mostly a 1911 in condition 1 carried IWB in a Milt Sparks Versa Max 2 holster. I've never had the safety come off.
First, I make sure that any 1911 I might carry has a very positive "on-safe." Second, the holsters I use are leather and have a sweat shield between my body and the gun. The sweat shield has become slightly scored by the safety in the engaged position, and that also helps.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
April 16, 2012, 05:26 PM | #15 |
Member
Join Date: March 5, 2012
Location: Valley Forge, PA
Posts: 80
|
I have carried my Kimber Stainless Raptor in a Crossbreed IWB for about 14 months without the safety ever getting turned off.
__________________
-Tom |
April 16, 2012, 06:35 PM | #16 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 2004
Posts: 3,150
|
Quote:
It's not the safety on the inside next to the body that's the problem, it's the one on the outside. Don't know if yours has the ambi safety or not, but if you do have a single safety that's reasonably firm, then it should never come off when secured in your holster. |
|
April 16, 2012, 06:58 PM | #17 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 1, 2001
Posts: 10,223
|
Quote:
All my Colts had the factory (left side) safeties, and I used holsters with a sweat guard that covered the safety and part of the grip. I still had the safeties on all my guns I carried, off at the end of the day on a pretty regular basis. This is just the nature of the beast with this type gun, and you just learn to deal with it. |
|
April 17, 2012, 11:45 PM | #18 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 2004
Posts: 3,150
|
Quote:
Question: If the gun doesn't move in your holster, how is it going to get off safe? It is possible to off safe the gun during holstering. I put my thumb under the safety when holstering. Just enough upward pressure to know it stays on. |
|
April 18, 2012, 04:41 AM | #19 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 1, 2001
Posts: 10,223
|
Quote:
I work and play outdoors year round. Lots of physical activity, all while wearing the gun. Clothing and other things have a way of getting in places they normally wouldnt if you dont move around much. |
|
April 18, 2012, 07:33 AM | #20 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 1, 2011
Location: Texas, land of Tex-Mex
Posts: 2,259
|
Quote:
|
|
April 18, 2012, 07:34 AM | #21 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 1, 2011
Location: Texas, land of Tex-Mex
Posts: 2,259
|
Quote:
|
|
April 18, 2012, 08:59 AM | #22 |
Junior member
Join Date: November 12, 2000
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 9,494
|
I have carried a Government Model 1911 in a Ted Blocker LFI-1 rig for well over 20 years and I have found the safety disengaged perhaps 4 times. Being self employed, I get to go active in the field, and play office boy too.
My safety has never dis-engaged while shuffling papers in the office. Always in the field working or playing hard. For this reason, I trust my holster and check it at times. If your safety dis-engages on its own on your 1911 pattern pistol, take a look at what you were doing and keep it in perspective. Chances are good that you do not need a new holster after all. just slow down a little. |
April 18, 2012, 09:20 AM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 12, 2002
Location: MO
Posts: 5,457
|
I've had/seen this happen with certain combinations of 1911 and holsters, including a duty holster or two. I don't like big safeties anyhow so my 1911's invariably have the GI or Colt commercial style safety. I won't tolerate a mushy safety or one that takes undue effort to switch either direction.
These days I IWB with a Safariland 27 and I've never had the safety come off, even after long days.
__________________
People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice. |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|