Remington Golden Saber bullets

zxcvbob · May 12, 2009, 01:30 AM

I bought a bag of 102 grain Golden Saber HP bullets to use in .380 reloads. Does anyone know what kind of velocity they need to expand? I've asked Remington this kind of question before about a different bullet and they just email back a nonanswer -- that they do not provide reloading data (even though that's not what I asked for.)

I guess worst case is they don't expand, and it's like a FMJ bullet with plenty of penetration. That's not altogether a bad thing.

Sport45 · May 12, 2009, 01:58 AM

Remington pushes them to 940 fps at the muzzle, if that's any indication.

Shoney · May 12, 2009, 01:59 AM

I've not used any 380 GS, but I have used them in 9X19 and 40SW. In testing through wet phone books at medium velocities, they opened quite well. At near max velocities, they were impressive with the sharp petals of the bullet sheath starring out, although there was some fragmentation.

You can read some data here:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/380acp.htm
keep scrolling down.

zxcvbob · May 12, 2009, 08:56 AM

Thanks. I'm going to have a tough time getting them to 940 fps from my Keltec because the barrel is so short. About 4 grains of Unique might do it. 4.2 grains Unique w/ 95 grain hard cast lead bullets (from memory) is about as hot a load as you can get and stay withing SAAMI specs and I don't remember if it was much over 900.

45Marlin carbine · May 12, 2009, 09:01 AM

you might try Power Pistol. I don't know if the slugs would expand useing PP (can't see why not, I use Alliant data) but the GS sure shoots good out of my BDA .380acp.

benzuncle · May 12, 2009, 07:54 PM

zxcvbob, I have something I copied and saved from the NAA forum archives about 380 ammo. The person that did the article fired 6 different rounds into a wetpack and chronographed them. He did a very nice job of arranging and photographing the spent hollow points and measured the penetration. Based on his observations, I began carrying and now loading 102gr Remington Golden Sabers in my NAA Guardian 380.
The types of ammo tested:
1 Corbon DPX 80gr copper bullet
2 Corbon 90gr JHP
3 Federal HydraShok 90gr JHP
4 Remington Golden Saber 102gr JHP
5 Speer GoldDot 90gr JHP
6 Winchester SXT 95gr JHP

The 102gr GS ammo expanded the most - between .570" and .588", and penetrated 8". The chronograph reading was 897.6fps
The next best was the Winchester SXT which expanded .506" to .537" and also penetrated to 8".
The HydraShoks penetrated to 9" but only opened .484" to .526". The chronograph reading was 959.2fap

My thinking is that if the GS rounds chronograped at 897.6fps and expand to 5/8th inch out of a 2.5in barrel, I can feel pretty good about the stuff. I have gone back over that piece numerous times; it is why I reload the stuff now. Zero FTF's or FTE's with the Golden Sabers. A very reliable bullet IMO. At the minimum it will make someone leak, and no one wants to leak.

45Marlin carbine · May 12, 2009, 09:05 PM

I've shot enough .380acp GS slugs into thick cardboard tacked onto hardwood pallet target stands and seen the damage done to know that I don't even want to get hit with one.
really chews a hole.

Stiofan · May 12, 2009, 10:31 PM

A poster on another board ( I think it was a Keltec board) tested about 7-8 factory HPs in his Keltec, and the GS performed the best. I can't find it, but he did another test between the GS and Buffalo Bores. http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/Ya...num=1208017655

At any rate I've seen other tests which show the heavier weight of the GS really does help. I've been using them for SD ever since. I imagine if you duplicated the factory loading you wouldn't be doing too bad, even out of a Keltec or a LCP like I have.

PCJim · May 13, 2009, 11:43 AM

I emailed Remington a similar question in June of last year. I wanted to know the optimum velocity range for their 124gr and 147gr Golden Sabre bullets when used in 9mm reloading. The response I received was only their current muzzle velocity loading for their factory loads using that bullet design. They did not provide any "optimum velocity range".

I would presume the same guidelines would apply to your .380's.

Shoney · May 13, 2009, 03:59 PM

PCJim
What did you expect Remington to say, "Go ahead and pust the velocity farther than our limits, we will be patiently waiting for your law suit as soon as you KB your weapon."?

zxcvbob · May 13, 2009, 04:04 PM

Shoney,
What I asked them (and never got an answer) was the maximum recommended velocity was for their 125 grain half-jacketed hollow points when fired from a rifle. I wanted to know if I needed to back off a little from standard .357 Magnum loads because of the velocity gain from the long barrel.

Shoney · May 13, 2009, 04:39 PM

First I appologize to PCJim for not realizing that was a quote.

Quote:

I guess that I am more familiar with quotation boxes.

zxcvbob
I wouldn't know how to answer the question on GS use in rifle. If Remington will not answer, your only hope is to have someone report their personal findings. Or do your own testing by starting low and working up.

PCJim · May 13, 2009, 10:06 PM

Shoney, first no offense taken. This is an internet forum - it is much different than having a face to face discussion.

My inquiry was to find what Remington determined to be the design "velocity range" for the referenced GS bullets. All bullets are designed to provide their best performance within a given range, not necessarily the velocity that factory loads are delivering.

I wanted to be able to develop loads that would operate within that optimum design range. Although we can try to duplicate factory loads, it is not always possible with our preferred powders. For various reasons, we may not even wish to load to the velocity of a factory load, if the bullet will still function as designed at a lower velocity.

May 12, 2009, 01:30 AM	#1
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Remington Golden Saber bullets I bought a bag of 102 grain Golden Saber HP bullets to use in .380 reloads. Does anyone know what kind of velocity they need to expand? I've asked Remington this kind of question before about a different bullet and they just email back a nonanswer -- that they do not provide reloading data (even though that's not what I asked for.) I guess worst case is they don't expand, and it's like a FMJ bullet with plenty of penetration. That's not altogether a bad thing. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

May 12, 2009, 01:58 AM	#2
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	Remington pushes them to 940 fps at the muzzle, if that's any indication. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

May 12, 2009, 01:59 AM	#3
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	I've not used any 380 GS, but I have used them in 9X19 and 40SW. In testing through wet phone books at medium velocities, they opened quite well. At near max velocities, they were impressive with the sharp petals of the bullet sheath starring out, although there was some fragmentation. You can read some data here: http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/380acp.htm keep scrolling down. __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

May 12, 2009, 08:56 AM	#4
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Thanks. I'm going to have a tough time getting them to 940 fps from my Keltec because the barrel is so short. About 4 grains of Unique might do it. 4.2 grains Unique w/ 95 grain hard cast lead bullets (from memory) is about as hot a load as you can get and stay withing SAAMI specs and I don't remember if it was much over 900. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

May 13, 2009, 03:59 PM	#10
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	PCJim What did you expect Remington to say, "Go ahead and pust the velocity farther than our limits, we will be patiently waiting for your law suit as soon as you KB your weapon."? __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

May 12, 2009, 09:01 AM	#5
45Marlin carbine Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2007 Location: South-Western North Carolina Posts: 1,124	you might try Power Pistol. I don't know if the slugs would expand useing PP (can't see why not, I use Alliant data) but the GS sure shoots good out of my BDA .380acp.

May 12, 2009, 07:54 PM	#6
benzuncle Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2008 Location: Central Florida Posts: 357	zxcvbob, I have something I copied and saved from the NAA forum archives about 380 ammo. The person that did the article fired 6 different rounds into a wetpack and chronographed them. He did a very nice job of arranging and photographing the spent hollow points and measured the penetration. Based on his observations, I began carrying and now loading 102gr Remington Golden Sabers in my NAA Guardian 380. The types of ammo tested: 1 Corbon DPX 80gr copper bullet 2 Corbon 90gr JHP 3 Federal HydraShok 90gr JHP 4 Remington Golden Saber 102gr JHP 5 Speer GoldDot 90gr JHP 6 Winchester SXT 95gr JHP The 102gr GS ammo expanded the most - between .570" and .588", and penetrated 8". The chronograph reading was 897.6fps The next best was the Winchester SXT which expanded .506" to .537" and also penetrated to 8". The HydraShoks penetrated to 9" but only opened .484" to .526". The chronograph reading was 959.2fap My thinking is that if the GS rounds chronograped at 897.6fps and expand to 5/8th inch out of a 2.5in barrel, I can feel pretty good about the stuff. I have gone back over that piece numerous times; it is why I reload the stuff now. Zero FTF's or FTE's with the Golden Sabers. A very reliable bullet IMO. At the minimum it will make someone leak, and no one wants to leak.

May 12, 2009, 09:05 PM	#7
45Marlin carbine Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2007 Location: South-Western North Carolina Posts: 1,124	I've shot enough .380acp GS slugs into thick cardboard tacked onto hardwood pallet target stands and seen the damage done to know that I don't even want to get hit with one. really chews a hole.

May 12, 2009, 10:31 PM	#8
Stiofan Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2006 Location: Panhandle, Idaho Posts: 714	A poster on another board ( I think it was a Keltec board) tested about 7-8 factory HPs in his Keltec, and the GS performed the best. I can't find it, but he did another test between the GS and Buffalo Bores. http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/Ya...num=1208017655 At any rate I've seen other tests which show the heavier weight of the GS really does help. I've been using them for SD ever since. I imagine if you duplicated the factory loading you wouldn't be doing too bad, even out of a Keltec or a LCP like I have.

May 13, 2009, 11:43 AM	#9
PCJim Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2008 Location: FL Posts: 570	I emailed Remington a similar question in June of last year. I wanted to know the optimum velocity range for their 124gr and 147gr Golden Sabre bullets when used in 9mm reloading. The response I received was only their current muzzle velocity loading for their factory loads using that bullet design. They did not provide any "optimum velocity range". I would presume the same guidelines would apply to your .380's.

May 13, 2009, 04:04 PM	#11
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Shoney, What I asked them (and never got an answer) was the maximum recommended velocity was for their 125 grain half-jacketed hollow points when fired from a rifle. I wanted to know if I needed to back off a little from standard .357 Magnum loads because of the velocity gain from the long barrel. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

May 13, 2009, 10:06 PM	#13
PCJim Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2008 Location: FL Posts: 570	Shoney, first no offense taken. This is an internet forum - it is much different than having a face to face discussion. My inquiry was to find what Remington determined to be the design "velocity range" for the referenced GS bullets. All bullets are designed to provide their best performance within a given range, not necessarily the velocity that factory loads are delivering. I wanted to be able to develop loads that would operate within that optimum design range. Although we can try to duplicate factory loads, it is not always possible with our preferred powders. For various reasons, we may not even wish to load to the velocity of a factory load, if the bullet will still function as designed at a lower velocity.

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