Another question for Virginia members

[MLeake]

Since we may move there later this year, I started looking at handgunlaw.us info on Virginia.

Question: What does a concealed handgun permit have to do with permissible rifle magazines?

According to handgunlaw.us, a concealed handgun permit holder can carry a rifle magazine which holds more than 20 rds; a non-permit holder cannot unless en route to a range or public shooting event.

Is this accurate?

Trying to figure out the status of my AR if we move to VA.

Thanks.

[egor20]

Hi MLeake

Can you post where you found that, I've never heard of it before???

Edit: I looked on handgunlaw.us and couldn't find it?

[MLeake]

It was between the Chemical Sprays etc section and the LEOSA section.

Attribution: http://handgunlaw.us/states/virginia.pdf

Text in question:

§ 18.2-287.4. Carrying Loaded Firearms in Public Areas Prohibited; Penalty.
It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded
(a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an
explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold
more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped
with a folding stock or
(b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is
chambered on or about his person on any public street, road, alley, sidewalk, public right-of-way, or in any
public park or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public in the Cities of Alexandria,
Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties
of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William.
The provisions of this section shall not apply to law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, military
personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit
or to any person actually engaged in lawful hunting or lawful recreational shooting activities at an
established shooting range or shooting contest. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be
guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
The exemptions set forth in § 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section.
(1991, c. 570; 1992, c. 790; 2003, c. 976; 2004, c. 995; 2005, c. 160; 2007, c. 813.)

Bold face is mine.

[egor20]

OK, I think this is whats referred to as the "Gang Banger Law", back it the 90s and early 00s the gangs in Richmond and Virginia Beach were running around with semi MAC10s and other POS 32 round guns. The legislature decided to pass this to add time on the sentencing process. I wouldn't worry about your AR-15, I have 2 Galils and have had no problems, even before I had a CC license.

[johnbt]

It's not about carrying loaded magazines.

It's about carrying loaded long guns with big mags in public. There's a difference.

And even then, it's only in a few cities and counties.

[alloy]

I figure you'd have the permit?

[MLeake]

If we move there, I'll plan on having it. Meanwhile, I have other permits that are valid in VA.

But I was kind of confused with the relationship between concealed handgun permit and loaded, openly carried AR.

[alloy]

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms.shtm


There are a few other caveats regarding loaded rifles/shotguns, here's another one from
http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_Transporting.shtm

§ 15.2-915.2. This section empowers the governing body of any county or city to, by ordinance, make it unlawful for any person to transport, possess or carry a loaded shotgun or loaded rifle in any vehicle on any public street, road, or highway within such locality. Any violation of such ordinance shall be punishable by a fine of not more than $100. Game wardens, sheriffs and all other law-enforcement officers shall enforce theprovisions of this section. No ordinance adopted pursuant to this section shall be enforceable unless the governing body adopting such ordinance so notifies the Director of the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries by registered mail prior to May 1 of the year in which such ordinance is to take effect.

The provisions of this section shall not apply to duly authorized law-enforcement officers or military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, nor to any person who reasonably believes that a loaded rifle or shotgun is necessary for his personal safety in the course of his employment or business.

[Micropterus]

Handgunlaw.us did not reproduce the Virginia statute governing the possession of rifles with high capacity magazines and shotguns properly. Therefore, it is easily misinterpreted on their website.

On Handgunlaw.us, the law is present thusly...

§ 18.2-287.4. Carrying Loaded Firearms in Public Areas Prohibited; Penalty.
It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded

(a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or

(b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public street, road, alley, sidewalk, public right-of-way, or in any public park or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public in the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William.

Reading it this way, it appears the rifles described are prohibited anywhere in the Commonwealth (subject to the exceptions provision), and that the shotguns described are only prohibited in the localities listed (subject to the exceptions provision.)

However, the law is actually written this way (color emphasis mine)...

§ 18.2-287.4. Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty.
It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public street, road, alley, sidewalk, public right-of-way, or in any public park or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public in the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William.

When read in its proper format, it seems clear that the rifles provision applies only in the localities listed, as does the shotgun provision. In other words, it appears carrying those firearms in areas other than the localities listed is lawful, even without a CHP.

[wally626]

Question: What does a concealed handgun permit have to do with permissible rifle magazines?

It is expected that law abiding citizens who can qualify for a permit can responsibly carry a loaded rifle or shotgun with lots of rounds around town.

As said above this is a response to gangs running down streets with shotguns robbing people.

There is also a ban on some shotguns that hold 12 rounds

§ 18.2-308.8. Importation, sale, possession or transfer of Striker 12's prohibited; penalty.

It shall be unlawful for any person to import, sell, possess or transfer the following firearms: the Striker 12, commonly called a "streetsweeper," or any semi-automatic folding stock shotgun of like kind with a spring tension drum magazine capable of holding twelve shotgun shells. A violation of this section shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony.

(1993, c. 888.)

There is state preemption for the possession of guns and where and how you can carry them, but where you can shoot them is up to the localities and game wardens. In my county you cannot fire a rifle larger than .22 except in self defense or at an approved range. So even if you got a big backyard, no rifle practice. The cities and N. VA counties tend to be much more restrictive. Also no shooting on state or federal lands except ranges and while hunting.

[Gary Slider]

See what you mean with my layout of the law. So use to seeing (a) and then (b) separated I just did it that way. I have changed it to show exactly how the law appears in the VA Statutes. If you see anything that needs changed or added to Handgunlaw.us do click on contact us at the bottom of the main page at Handgunlaw.us.

The next site update is scheduled for 4/22/11 and that is when the layout of the Mag Sec will be updated. Thanks for the heads up.

[egor20]

There is also a ban on some shotguns that hold 12 rounds

Very true

Virginia prohibits "Street Sweeper" shotguns.
Its about the only weapon banned in the Commonwealth.

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/states/virginia/