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Old February 25, 2014, 01:26 PM   #1
jwrowland77
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Hornday brass vs Win vs Lapua

I was wondering how the Hornady brass compared to Winchester and Lapua weight wise. I have a bunch of it and was thinking about using it.

Is it on the lighter side near Winchester or heavier near Lapua?
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Old February 25, 2014, 01:50 PM   #2
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I don't have any that was made within the last 15 years. If you read the reviews on Midway for their .308 Win brass, you will see it has varied substantially over time from weights in the 150's to the 170's of grains. One reviewer commented that his had a thinner rim configuration, reducing weight but not increasing internal volume as much as the weight reduction would indicate. So, if you want to find out, you'll have to get some current production and fire a mild basic starting load, then measure the as-fired, but not yet resized case water capacity to see how it compares to your other brass.
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Old February 25, 2014, 01:51 PM   #3
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Gotcha. Thank you sir
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Old February 25, 2014, 03:44 PM   #4
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I haven't gotten into weighing the cases yet, but I have only bought 50 Hornady match .308 brass and have purchased 200 Lapuas. They are about the same cost. Hornady $39/50, Lapua $79/100, though I find them on sale and get the Lapuas for $65/100 when I've bought them.

I've found the lapua brass requires less prep to get them ready to load. Other than that, there is not a whole lot of difference.
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Old February 25, 2014, 03:50 PM   #5
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Yes, I use Lapua and Winchester quite a bit. Just have a bunch of Hornady, Federal and RP brass sitting around doing nothing.
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Old February 26, 2014, 09:37 PM   #6
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Ok I weighed some brass tonight.

The Winchester brass weighed from 157-161.9.

Hornady match brass weighed around 167-169

Lapua brass weighed 173-174.

I'm thinking the loads I use in Lapua and Winchester, which is exactly the same, will be safe to use in the Hornady match brass.

Is my thinking off? I'm thinking that since the load is safe in Lapua, which is heavier brass, smaller internal capacity, will be safe in the Hornady brass which is lighter and a tad more capacity
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Old February 27, 2014, 07:30 AM   #7
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Ok I weighed some brass tonight.

The Winchester brass weighed from 157-161.9.

Hornady match brass weighed around 167-169

Lapua brass weighed 173-174.

I'm thinking the loads I use in Lapua and Winchester, which is exactly the same, will be safe to use in the Hornady match brass.

Is my thinking off? I'm thinking that since the load is safe in Lapua, which is heavier brass, smaller internal capacity, will be safe in the Hornady brass which is lighter and a tad more capacity

As long as you're using acceptable load/bullet combinations. I would need specific bullet type, weight and charge amounts to comment.
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Old February 27, 2014, 07:48 AM   #8
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I'm using an acceptable powder/bullet combo. Max for powder is 47.7, I'm using 47. I've tested up to 47.7 with no pressure signs. Using 175 SMK.
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Old February 27, 2014, 08:06 AM   #9
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I'm sure the Hornady brass will work fine for you. The only issue I've had with new Hornady brass were some tight primer pockets. They ended up requiring a pass with a pocket uniformer on the first loading.
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Old February 27, 2014, 08:08 AM   #10
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I'm sure the Hornady brass will work fine for you. The only issue I've had with new Hornady brass were some tight primer pockets. They ended up requiring a pass with a pocket uniformer on the first loading.

How do the pockets compare to Lapua? The Lapua primer pockets are pretty tight where I have to go slow with a hand primer to seat primer.
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Old February 27, 2014, 08:22 AM   #11
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All of my Lapua brass have tight primer pockets, which is not a bad thing to me. They are not too tight where they require any uniformity/reaming. The Hornady, some are about the same as Lapua, some are tighter, some are a little looser. I haven't had to ream any yet, but you can tell they aren't as consistent as the Lapuas. I would say 2-5 out of 50 are tighter than the rest, and maybe 2-3 felt a little looser.

This is using CCI LR primers. I have not measured the primers, so can't say for sure that it's the primer pockets and not the primer.
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Old February 27, 2014, 08:35 AM   #12
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jwrowland77,

If it's a Hodgdon powder, the load will have been developed in the lighter Winchester brass. You can see that information on their site. An old rule of thumb is for every 10 grains of brass weight increase (about 1.2 grains water capacity if exterior dimensions are identical) you reduce the powder charge 0.7 grains to keep pressure and barrel time fairly constant. It's usually not necessary from a safety standpoint, the safety margins being fairly substantial, but it is enough difference to throw a sweet spot accuracy load a little out of tune.

Because exterior dimensions often are not the same, having slightly different head diameters or different relief angles coming off the extractor groove, I've measured typically about 20% error estimating case capacity from brass weight alone. It's better than doing nothing, but you do still better to measure the actual water overflow capacity of average weight cases from each lot you have, and to compare those.

The case water overflow capacity measurement is done before resizing or decapping, because the expanded, as-fired case capacity is what pressure depends on in cartridges running over about 30,000 psi. Just weigh the fired cases empty and dry and fill them with water level with the case mouth (no meniscus, no air bubbles, no drops on the outside) and weigh again. The difference in the two weights is the as-fired case water overflow capacity, and that's what the rule of thumb actually applies to.

In case water capacity, the rule works out to 0.59 times as many grains of powder as grains of water capacity difference. In .308 Win in QuickLOAD, with the 175 grain SMK, it works almost exactly for quite a range of powders, even though I got that rule from a book compiled in the 70's, and it was given in the context of .30-06 loads.
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Old February 27, 2014, 09:22 AM   #13
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Awesome, thank you sir.
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Old February 27, 2014, 11:32 PM   #14
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How do the pockets compare to Lapua? The Lapua primer pockets are pretty tight where I have to go slow with a hand primer to seat primer.

Honestly, I have never spent the extra $$ for the Lapua brass. I either buy Hornady match or Nosler, with my preference being the latter. My thoughts are that tighter primer pockets are better, since IMHO, tighter means I will probably get one or two extra hand loads out of my bigger bore magnum cartridges.
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Old February 28, 2014, 03:17 PM   #15
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I have done a number of checks on brass from 270, 30-06 and 300 WM

FC has been the heaviest and pretty consistent in minimal weight variation.

If I was buying it for longevity I would go with the FC.

RP has been the next heaviest.
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Old February 28, 2014, 03:19 PM   #16
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I have done a number of checks on brass from 270, 30-06 and 300 WM



FC has been the heaviest and pretty consistent in minimal weight variation.



If I was buying it for longevity I would go with the FC.



RP has been the next heaviest.

I have a stockpile of Federal and RP brass in .308. Mainly FC.
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Old March 1, 2014, 02:35 PM   #17
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Just weigh it. Norma/Lapua case capacity is usually a bit smaller and the brass usually is heavier than the cheap stuff.
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Old March 5, 2014, 03:17 PM   #18
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RC20 and Jwrowland77,

Just be aware with Federal brass, despite its weight, that it tends to be soft. Not all makers use the same alloy (Federal is a low brass; 80:20) or work harden it equally. I see a lot of reports of Federal primer pockets loosening prematurely. In one instance, a Federal factory magnum load kept ejecting with the primer falling out. It seems to work fine for loads in the 40,000's of psi, though. The pistol stuff has always been durable enough for me, too, but that's lower pressure.
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Old March 5, 2014, 03:18 PM   #19
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RC20 and Jwrowland77,



Just be aware with Federal brass, despite its weight, that it tends to be soft. Not all makers use the same alloy (Federal is a low brass; 80:20) or work harden it equally. I see a lot of reports of Federal primer pockets loosening prematurely. In one instance, a Federal factory magnum load kept ejecting with the primer falling out. It seems to work fine for loads in the 40,000's of psi, though. The pistol stuff has always been durable enough for me, too, but that's lower pressure.

Oh I don't plan in using it anytime soon if at all, just got a bunch of it. Lol. I prefer Winchester or Lapua in .308.
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Old March 7, 2014, 08:45 AM   #20
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Just use it in moderate loads. You can work up some very accurate .308 target loads running just below 50,000 psi using H4895 or Varget (some guns seem to prefer one over the other). At the extremes, Dan Newberry doesn't consider Federal commercial brass suitable for reloading (military spec FC headstamp is fine). But I think board member Bart B. likes it and has reported getting long load life out of it. It's just a matter of not loading too warm.
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Old March 7, 2014, 09:00 AM   #21
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Just use it in moderate loads. You can work up some very accurate .308 target loads running just below 50,000 psi using H4895 or Varget (some guns seem to prefer one over the other). At the extremes, Dan Newberry doesn't consider Federal commercial brass suitable for reloading (military spec FC headstamp is fine). But I think board member Bart B. likes it and has reported getting long load life out of it. It's just a matter of not loading too warm.

I've been trying to find some of that H4895 but it's like a ghost, same with Varget.

I may just end up selling my FC brass. Got a bunch of Win, Lapua, Hornady and Rem headstamps. Of course who knows, I might be able to find a extremely accurate load using FC. That's all in after anyway.
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Old March 7, 2014, 12:20 PM   #22
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Hornday brass vs Win vs Lapua

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwrowland77 View Post
I've been trying to find some of that H4895 but it's like a ghost, same with Varget.

I may just end up selling my FC brass. Got a bunch of Win, Lapua, Hornady and Rem headstamps. Of course who knows, I might be able to find a extremely accurate load using FC. That's all in after anyway.

I would be interested in FC .308 brass if you want to dump it.

Thanks
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Old March 8, 2014, 11:49 AM   #23
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Jwrowland77,

If it says FC and has two numbers for the year of manufacture, then it should be military spec properly work-hardened 70:30 brass and is OK. It's the commercial spec Federal brass that's the issue. It's a different alloy (closer to 80:20 Cu:Zn) that they don't work harden at the head as much. Not that they can't work harden the head more—Remington brass is a similar low brass alloy and doesn't have this issue—but for whatever reason Federal chooses not to.
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Old March 8, 2014, 11:52 AM   #24
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Jwrowland77,



If it says FC and has two numbers for the year of manufacture, then it should be military spec and is OK. It's the commercial spec Federal brass that's the issue.

Yeah. Most of the FC I have is commercial. I separated out the military brass. I like military brass. Stout stuff and can use it for awhile in a bolt rifle.
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