Thoughts on G3A3 folding stock

Firepower! · February 6, 2009, 01:54 PM

Hi
I have just acquired a G3A3 with folding stock. It is a Saudi made under HK license. I think its the 7.62x51 that pushed me towards it. Say whatever one may, 7.62 is one heck of a round in automatic platform. What are your thoughts on G3? What sort of accessories I should look for to make this weapon even more potent?

Bartholomew Roberts · February 6, 2009, 02:02 PM

I dismembered an office chair with a PTR-91 in 7.62x51 with a full-auto trigger pack once. Great fun; but difficult to control even with past experience with full-auto, a relatively short distance, and a full length, full-stocked G3.

You have a folding stock or the traditional H&K collapsing stock? I haven't seen the folder; but if it is the typical MP5-type collapsible, that is not going to be fun on full-auto. I'd go ahead and get a normal stock.

Firepower! · February 6, 2009, 02:15 PM

Its a collapsable HK stock. Why do you not recomend it on FA?

Bartholomew Roberts · February 6, 2009, 02:55 PM

It is just not going to be very comfortable. The collapsible on the MP5 was bad, both in terms of comfort and repeatable cheek weld and that was 9mm. I haven't shot a G3 with a collapsible stock; but given my experience on the normal stock PTR-91, I don't think you will like it much (assuming you even attempt to use the sights on full-auto).

Firepower! · February 9, 2009, 02:46 PM

Collapsable stock is very effective in carrying the rifle since otherwise it is just too big. In auto mode small bursts from hip should be practiced. Iron sights for single shots.

Chipperman · February 11, 2009, 06:23 PM

A G3 with the collapsible stock on full-auto is very uncomfortable, as mentioned. You'll have a bruise on your cheek if you actually try to maintain a cheek weld and shoot a long burst. The regular stock is much more comfortable and controllable IMO. Three or four round bursts are pretty controllable with the full stock. Long bursts are not going to be COM after the first 3-4 rounds.

Shooting from the hip obviously would prevent the discomfort, but your accuracy will go down the tubes. If you're just spraying for fun, then go ahead.

Firepower! · February 13, 2009, 09:34 AM

I agree with the cheek bruising part...it may happen. However, why not with AK? Less recoil?

Anyway, I think I am going to drop the G3 idea with collapsable stock. I have on with full stock and will use that.

Johnny Guest · February 14, 2009, 12:38 AM

I've fired G3 and HK91 rifles with both fixed and telescoping stocks. I was about to buy an A3 stock for my HK91 at one time. My fixed stock 91 was extremely accurate, fired from a solid rest or a bipod. With good ammo, first round hits at 350 yards were entirely feasible - - fartherest I tried it.

I was disappointed to learn that the A3 stock was so uncomfortable. I really wanted to like it, but I had a lot of trouble getting a good cheek weld on it. I even tried putting a folded blanket over the stock for padding, and this was only a slight improvement. Yes, I could make good silhouette hits at 200 yards, but that wass about it.

I shot a friend's G3 for several magazines, interchanging the A3 stock and the fixed stock. With the fixed stock, in semiauto, I could shoot it almost as well as my own 91, and did pretty well in full auto. Using the A3 stock in full auto, it was actually kind of painful. Even at 100 yards, it was only good for area fire.

I was fairly experienced (for a civilian) in shooting rifle-caliber automatic rifles, and I am really not very recoil sensitive. The only other automatic rifle that ever hurt me as bad was an AR10 - - very vigorous in semiauto fire but nearly unmanageable in full auto from the shoulder. Curiously, though, I could shoot both the G3A3 and the AR10 pretty well using an underarm position, at 15 -- 20 yards. I felt this was only a stunt, because I'm a big believer in aimed fire.

Best of luck to you.

Firepower! · February 14, 2009, 02:28 AM

it is kind of sad decision since I wanted a compact 7.62 and what better than a HK91 or a G3. However, now I have to find a 7.62x51 that is smaller in size. I have gotten a permission to buy another automatic weapon and would like it to be 7.62.

PTK · February 14, 2009, 04:20 PM

Can you get a full sized G3 and have it cut down more like a V51 from the USA? It's basically a 10" barrel on the 308, then you can have a full stock and still have it compact.

Webleymkv · February 14, 2009, 05:43 PM

The problem is that in order to have full-auto with a full-power cartridge such as 7.62x51 and maintain controlability, a certain size and weight is needed. That is why most easily portable full-auto weapons that fire full power cartridges fall in to the light or universal machine gun category. Examples would include the American BAR and M60, British BREN, German MG34 and MG42, and Soviet PKM. The G3, German FG-42, and American M14 are all usually considered to be at the upper limits of controlability on full-auto, and none of them are really 'compact' when opposed to true assault rifles like the AK or M16/M4.

Honestly, the value of fully automatic fire in such a weapon is of questionable value anyway. A full-power battle rifle (7.62x51, 30-06, 7.92x57, 7.62x54R) is really only advantageous over an intermediate caliber (7.62x39, 5.45x39, 5.56x45) at extended ranges (300-400 meters or more) and at that range, full-auto fire is only of value as a sustained suppressing fire which the types of weapons you're considering cannot provide. This is one of the main reasons that most militaries have gone to true assault rifles and issue either semi-automatics such as the SVD and FAL or weapons intended to be used as semi-automatics such as the M14 to "designated marksmen." If you like the G3 design but want something more compact, I'd suggest one of HK's offerings in 5.56x45.

Firepower! · February 17, 2009, 03:40 AM

I like the desing. I have a couple of G3s. I also have a HK91. Perhaps I should place a folding stock on HK 91?

The idea of folding stock was to place G3 in same usage as AK47 in terms of overcoming size issues.

Webleymkv · February 17, 2009, 06:30 PM

If you like the G3, but want a controllable full-auto with a collapsable stock, why not look at the HK33 or HK53?

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as13-e.htm

Sam06 · February 19, 2009, 02:22 PM

Check out the FN FAL with the folding stock and short barrel. I do a lot of work in Africa and run into G3's a lot. I am not all that happy with the G3 as a battle rifle. I have seen them severely abused in Africa from not cleaning them and just the age of the weapon and they do shoot, but the ergonomics of the weapon leave a lot to be desired. I have big hands and cannot reach the selector lever without turning my hand on the pistol grip. The other beef I have with the G3 is the cocking lever. At 1st it looks like a good idea to have it where it is but when you use the weapon in the prone you find it is difficult to operate. I like a FAL much better as a full size 7.62 battle rifle. The folding stock is well made and is out of the way if don't want it out. As the guys above stated the Collapsing H&K stock is very painful to use on the G3 platform. They were not that good on the MP5 for that matter. The other Full sized Battle Rifle with a folding stock is the BM59. Its a good gun and they were made in full auto. The best of the bunch is the galil but they are hard to find. Thats my 2 cents worth.

Firepower! · February 19, 2009, 02:50 PM

sam
Fn FAL is very hard to find here. G3s are available and relatively cheap. I can however do either of the following:

1. Get folding stock and the full stock. When firing from shoulder for targets use full, and for carrying vehicle use folding, or

2. try locating a Galil in 7.62

Sam06 · February 20, 2009, 09:13 AM

Firepower, I have seen CETME's here in the states with a M4 type collapsing stock. That might be the trick.

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/prod...ucts_id=101187

Here is a link to one I found on the net. Not sure if you could get your hands on one and I have no idea of the quality. I am sure someone here knows about them. If they fit a CETME they "Should" fit the G3. That might be the best compromise option for you. I can understand wanting a full size round for protection.

Good luck

Firepower! · February 27, 2009, 02:32 AM

Sam06.. checeked out the entire market here. They are not available.

February 6, 2009, 01:54 PM	#1
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	Thoughts on G3A3 folding stock Hi I have just acquired a G3A3 with folding stock. It is a Saudi made under HK license. I think its the 7.62x51 that pushed me towards it. Say whatever one may, 7.62 is one heck of a round in automatic platform. What are your thoughts on G3? What sort of accessories I should look for to make this weapon even more potent?

February 14, 2009, 12:38 AM	#8
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	I think that's a good decision I've fired G3 and HK91 rifles with both fixed and telescoping stocks. I was about to buy an A3 stock for my HK91 at one time. My fixed stock 91 was extremely accurate, fired from a solid rest or a bipod. With good ammo, first round hits at 350 yards were entirely feasible - - fartherest I tried it. I was disappointed to learn that the A3 stock was so uncomfortable. I really wanted to like it, but I had a lot of trouble getting a good cheek weld on it. I even tried putting a folded blanket over the stock for padding, and this was only a slight improvement. Yes, I could make good silhouette hits at 200 yards, but that wass about it. I shot a friend's G3 for several magazines, interchanging the A3 stock and the fixed stock. With the fixed stock, in semiauto, I could shoot it almost as well as my own 91, and did pretty well in full auto. Using the A3 stock in full auto, it was actually kind of painful. Even at 100 yards, it was only good for area fire. I was fairly experienced (for a civilian) in shooting rifle-caliber automatic rifles, and I am really not very recoil sensitive. The only other automatic rifle that ever hurt me as bad was an AR10 - - very vigorous in semiauto fire but nearly unmanageable in full auto from the shoulder. Curiously, though, I could shoot both the G3A3 and the AR10 pretty well using an underarm position, at 15 -- 20 yards. I felt this was only a stunt, because I'm a big believer in aimed fire. Best of luck to you.

February 19, 2009, 02:22 PM	#14
Sam06 Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2008 Location: Fayettenam Posts: 1,086	Check out the FN FAL with the folding stock and short barrel. I do a lot of work in Africa and run into G3's a lot. I am not all that happy with the G3 as a battle rifle. I have seen them severely abused in Africa from not cleaning them and just the age of the weapon and they do shoot, but the ergonomics of the weapon leave a lot to be desired. I have big hands and cannot reach the selector lever without turning my hand on the pistol grip. The other beef I have with the G3 is the cocking lever. At 1st it looks like a good idea to have it where it is but when you use the weapon in the prone you find it is difficult to operate. I like a FAL much better as a full size 7.62 battle rifle. The folding stock is well made and is out of the way if don't want it out. As the guys above stated the Collapsing H&K stock is very painful to use on the G3 platform. They were not that good on the MP5 for that matter. The other Full sized Battle Rifle with a folding stock is the BM59. Its a good gun and they were made in full auto. The best of the bunch is the galil but they are hard to find. Thats my 2 cents worth. __________________ The two most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.

February 20, 2009, 09:13 AM	#16
Sam06 Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2008 Location: Fayettenam Posts: 1,086	Firepower, I have seen CETME's here in the states with a M4 type collapsing stock. That might be the trick. http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/prod...ucts_id=101187 Here is a link to one I found on the net. Not sure if you could get your hands on one and I have no idea of the quality. I am sure someone here knows about them. If they fit a CETME they "Should" fit the G3. That might be the best compromise option for you. I can understand wanting a full size round for protection. Good luck __________________ The two most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.

February 6, 2009, 02:02 PM	#2
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	I dismembered an office chair with a PTR-91 in 7.62x51 with a full-auto trigger pack once. Great fun; but difficult to control even with past experience with full-auto, a relatively short distance, and a full length, full-stocked G3. You have a folding stock or the traditional H&K collapsing stock? I haven't seen the folder; but if it is the typical MP5-type collapsible, that is not going to be fun on full-auto. I'd go ahead and get a normal stock.

February 6, 2009, 02:15 PM	#3
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	Its a collapsable HK stock. Why do you not recomend it on FA?

February 6, 2009, 02:55 PM	#4
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	It is just not going to be very comfortable. The collapsible on the MP5 was bad, both in terms of comfort and repeatable cheek weld and that was 9mm. I haven't shot a G3 with a collapsible stock; but given my experience on the normal stock PTR-91, I don't think you will like it much (assuming you even attempt to use the sights on full-auto).

February 9, 2009, 02:46 PM	#5
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	Collapsable stock is very effective in carrying the rifle since otherwise it is just too big. In auto mode small bursts from hip should be practiced. Iron sights for single shots.

February 11, 2009, 06:23 PM	#6
Chipperman Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2000 Location: Live Free or Die, Baby! Posts: 1,550	A G3 with the collapsible stock on full-auto is very uncomfortable, as mentioned. You'll have a bruise on your cheek if you actually try to maintain a cheek weld and shoot a long burst. The regular stock is much more comfortable and controllable IMO. Three or four round bursts are pretty controllable with the full stock. Long bursts are not going to be COM after the first 3-4 rounds. Shooting from the hip obviously would prevent the discomfort, but your accuracy will go down the tubes. If you're just spraying for fun, then go ahead.

February 13, 2009, 09:34 AM	#7
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	I agree with the cheek bruising part...it may happen. However, why not with AK? Less recoil? Anyway, I think I am going to drop the G3 idea with collapsable stock. I have on with full stock and will use that.

February 14, 2009, 02:28 AM	#9
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	it is kind of sad decision since I wanted a compact 7.62 and what better than a HK91 or a G3. However, now I have to find a 7.62x51 that is smaller in size. I have gotten a permission to buy another automatic weapon and would like it to be 7.62.

February 14, 2009, 04:20 PM	#10
PTK Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 442	Can you get a full sized G3 and have it cut down more like a V51 from the USA? It's basically a 10" barrel on the 308, then you can have a full stock and still have it compact.

February 14, 2009, 05:43 PM	#11
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 10,446	The problem is that in order to have full-auto with a full-power cartridge such as 7.62x51 and maintain controlability, a certain size and weight is needed. That is why most easily portable full-auto weapons that fire full power cartridges fall in to the light or universal machine gun category. Examples would include the American BAR and M60, British BREN, German MG34 and MG42, and Soviet PKM. The G3, German FG-42, and American M14 are all usually considered to be at the upper limits of controlability on full-auto, and none of them are really 'compact' when opposed to true assault rifles like the AK or M16/M4. Honestly, the value of fully automatic fire in such a weapon is of questionable value anyway. A full-power battle rifle (7.62x51, 30-06, 7.92x57, 7.62x54R) is really only advantageous over an intermediate caliber (7.62x39, 5.45x39, 5.56x45) at extended ranges (300-400 meters or more) and at that range, full-auto fire is only of value as a sustained suppressing fire which the types of weapons you're considering cannot provide. This is one of the main reasons that most militaries have gone to true assault rifles and issue either semi-automatics such as the SVD and FAL or weapons intended to be used as semi-automatics such as the M14 to "designated marksmen." If you like the G3 design but want something more compact, I'd suggest one of HK's offerings in 5.56x45.

February 17, 2009, 03:40 AM	#12
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	I like the desing. I have a couple of G3s. I also have a HK91. Perhaps I should place a folding stock on HK 91? The idea of folding stock was to place G3 in same usage as AK47 in terms of overcoming size issues.

February 17, 2009, 06:30 PM	#13
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 10,446	If you like the G3, but want a controllable full-auto with a collapsable stock, why not look at the HK33 or HK53? http://world.guns.ru/assault/as13-e.htm

February 19, 2009, 02:50 PM	#15
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	sam Fn FAL is very hard to find here. G3s are available and relatively cheap. I can however do either of the following: 1. Get folding stock and the full stock. When firing from shoulder for targets use full, and for carrying vehicle use folding, or 2. try locating a Galil in 7.62

February 27, 2009, 02:32 AM	#17
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	Sam06.. checeked out the entire market here. They are not available.