ethical shot on running deer?

[Ammo Junky]

A lady at work is bragging about shooting a running buck at 85 yd. She said the first shot hit it in the leg and it struggeled a while before she got a second shot to finish it off. I dont know if she was using a rifled gun or smooth bore. If it was a plain smooth bore any shot over 75 yd max is unethical. A running shot at 85yd imo is unethical period. If she did it with a smooth bore she was doublely unethical. What do you hunters say? Am I too strict on the shots I take or is she a discrace to hunters? :barf:



Vana, could I have an L please?

[rem33]

I would not shoot a running deer at that range, in fact (and this is me) I don't shoot at running deer unless they are wounded. Dozens of times I have refused. But mule deer will 90% of the time stop and take a look if your patient, and White tail are very different. If a hunter is practiced up enough I think running shots could be OK but you will need lots and lots of practice. I know of a guy that shoots Jack rabbits all the time running. Then thats rabbits and not deer and he is very practiced at it.
99% of the time most of us should not take running shots IMHO. Better to not get a deer than to wound and lose.


Vanna says "Noel"

[FirstFreedom]

My opinion is that a shot on a running deer is unethical per se. I can't necessarily judge others though. Now if the deer is VERY close, say 5-7 yards, and only trotting, such that you can easily stay in the vitals, then different story. But generally speaking, you run WAY too high of a risk of wounding with a running shot. Hell, I know a lot of hunters that can't seem not to gut shoot a deer every damned time - and that's with deer standing still, with top-notch equipment. And these are guys who hunt quite a bit. I can't imagine that the average bubba, or even the above average bubba, has the skill to make a running shot ethical. But your mileage may vary, as ethics do.

Bottom line, it ain't braggin if you can do it - ethically - hit every time you try. She admitted she did a leg hit, so she ain't got what it takes to be trying that ethical, regardless of whether the 2nd shot did it - she may have never gotten the second shot.

[Double Naught Spy]

By this sort of judgment, a lot of hunters take "unethical" shots as they are shots they are not confident about being particularly well placed or likely to be deadly. The example here is on a running deer where the hunter had to shoot it a second time after winging it with the first shot. The hunter's first shot was NOT likely to be a proper shot because the deer was in motion and sure enough, it wasn't a proper killing shot.

Now think about the hunters who are wounded or killed by other hunters each year when the other hunters shoot at improperly identified targets (usually thinking they are shooting a deer). How can they possible hope to land a proper shot when they haven't actually even seen the intended prey fully enough to identify it? Some of these shots are at movement in the brush. Some are at what they think are obstructed view shots where they think they see part of the animal and then aim for what they would believe would be a proper shot through the foliage.

How about shots taken beyond your known sighted distances such that you are simply making a guessed windage shot. Ethical? Since you really don't know where the bullet will hit on the animal, if it does, then you aren't able to make a shot you believe should be a properly placed shot.

How about shots in heavy cross winds?

There are many types of "unethical" shots depending on how you view hunting, hunter skills, etc. There are certainly many examples of what turned out to be unethical shots in that they were shots that should never have been taken as evidenced by the poor or improper outcomes.

[mete]

Have you ever practiced shooting at a running target ? There are very few ranges that have a moving target. Have you ever practiced with high cross winds ? If you haven't practiced you're depending on a lot of luck !!!

[Tom Matiska]

In most case I'd say no, because few hunters have thought about the subject enough to prepare themselve for a good shot. Bambi can easily exceed 45 feet/sec. A 50 yard running shot with a 243 may need near 2 feet of lead. A 30-30 maybe 3 feet. If you loaded your 44 mag rifle down with with 300s you may need to pull 4+ lead. 12 a slugs 6++ feet.

Dunno why, but the same hunter who can easily pull a few feet lead on a rabbit or bird has a mental block when it comes to putting the cross hairs of a rifle the necessary distance in front of a fast moving deer/bear/hog.

Shots well inside 50 with a fast cartridge? OK...a shoulder shot may hit the ribs. 50 yards with a slow big bore? You're risking gut shot or total miss.

Nothing wrong with ruling it our as a first shot, but first shot clean kills don't always happen. Nice subject to think about before you need to take that second shot at a fast mover that is running for it's life.

[Trip20]

Considering the amount of gunfire I heard opening day, nobody gets one shot kills. It was never just "bang", instead I heard "bang..bang...bang".

My one kill so far this season took two shots. The first shot went right over her back and hit the dirt. The second went through both lungs and she died a proper death. She was standing still for both shots, I just misjudged the distance on the first shot.

Frankly, I'm not good enough to shoot at moving targets. The only moving targets I'm capable of dealing with at the moment is my jittery reticule.

[Long Path]

Vana, could I have an L please?

Gotcha covered, big boy.



As for shooting at a running deer at 85 yards, I'm hard put to see it as an ethical shot for most people under most conditions.

I have seen deer run away at a slight quartering angle that presented a constant, high probability shot that would be worth taking at that range with quality high-powered rifle with a very good shooter firing from a rest. In such a shot, the movement is only slightly right-to-left or left-to-right, and presents a high likelyhood of pushing the bullet through the chest if the hunter knows to hold slightly forward. But the setup is unlikely, as what hunter is likely to have a rest when such a shot is kicked up?

Generally, the best policy is to get into a solid rest, and whistle to make the deer check up. Whitetails are, by popular wisdom, more likely to stop and see what the whistle was. Otherwise, watch for it to stop at the edge of the clearing, or at the top of the next hill. The shot is longer, but the game is standing still.

[Ammo Junky]

Thanks LP.

[deerslayer79]

why would someone brag about it,what she should say is,man I made a lucky shot on a running deer,although she should feel crappy about wounding it first of all.

[spanky9773]

I think she should take a little more time on the practice range and a little less time shooting at running deer.

[Desertfox]

Always remember, if a story has to be told 100% accurately, it may be boring.

She may be adding a little something or other to the story.

No running shots should be concidered ethical on the first shot.

Take your medicine and live to hunt another day.

[Art Eatman]

There have been running shots I've passed; there have been a few that I've taken. The longest was about 175 yards; I hit the spine just behind the shoulders instead of his neck. Not enough lead, by some 18".

I always figure a 30mph deer, or 44 ft/sec. That's (round numbers) three feet of lead in front of his nose for each 100 yards out, for a crossing deer. Less for angles...I dunno; I just shoot where he's gonna be, not where he is right now.

That's for a bragging buck. I wouldn't take a running shot on a little buck or a doe.

Down here, I've hunted hard for the 16-day season and sometimes never even seen a buck. The deal is, you take the shot Bambi gives you, and you better know what you're doing. That's why I built a 500-yard range and why I only use one particular "Ol' Pet" that I've used for over 35 years. Or practice offhand shooting at rocks at various long ranges.

My father was an exceptional shot. Killed lots of deer on the run, and quite a few "way out there". Then he did his usual reflex shot on a running antelope. He was startled to see the bullet hit completely behind the critter.

Art

[bergie]

Me, most of the guys I hunt with, and ALL hunters in several European countries. From what I've read there are several countries that require hunters to demonstrate their skill including hitting moving targets before they are allowed to hunt.
Four years in a row I put my tag on a buck that I shot on the run. All were one shot kills at ranges from 50 to 175 yards.
It really isn't that hard to hit a moving target, it just takes a little practice.

bergie

[Smokey Joe]

I spent the week before deer season this year and last at the "running deer target" part of the hunter sight-in event that my gun club holds each year as a public service and a fund-raiser.

So I've seen more hunters shoot at a running deer target than most people.

Almost all the hits in the target are NOT ethical hits--rump, gut, legs, etc. And most of these are by accident. And bear in mind that this target was moving along cables, in a straight line, not bouncing like a deer really does when running.

As with most skills, to hit a running deer proficiently, you have to practice. Most people don't practice this.

Therefore most people should not shoot at running deer. The exception is for people like Art's Dad. How many hunters have that level of skill?

Bottom line: If the deer is running, you've already lost it. At least let it run away healthy and whole.

[22-rimfire]

I'd take a careful running shot at a deer of 50 yds or less going broadside or nearly broadside to me. I would not shoot at a running deer that I "jumped"; I'd wait for a shot. I would take a shot at a running wounded deer, especially one that I have already hit.

Shooting at a running animal takes some practice. Most are not prepared for a good shot at a running deer. Hence, for the seasonal hunter who shoots very little year around, I would say it is a bit unsportsmanlike to take a running shot at a deer.

[FrontSight]

I took a shot at a running 8 pointer - was going full speed ahead after my first shot missed it. It ran toward me broadside, tho, instead of away from me, as it did not know where the shot came from. I was leading a little too much, tho, with a 12 gauge, waited for it to come from behind a tree, and nailed it in the neck, spun it 180 and dropped in its tracks. Probably not the best thing to do, but luckily it worked, and it got me my one and only 8 pointer so far.

[45reloader]

I don't shoot at running deer for 2 reasons

1. it's just bad for me and the deer if it runs 200 yards and I have to track it.And it may not die for days if the shot was really off.
2.I hunt in populated areas and don't want to kill someone.

[JustPassingBy]

I hunt in populated areas and don't want to kill someone.

Gotta agree with 45reloader on this one unless your hunting on fenced/posted private land. Once the animal has run from your initial sight line, how can you be sure that you aren't aiming at a fellow hunter as you track it??


Know Your Target and What's Beyond It, Right??

[FrontSight]

I hunt in populated areas and don't want to kill someone

If the shot is aimed at a safe backdrop then it really makes no difference whether the deer is running or standing still, no?

I.E. hunting from a tree stand and a deer comes by running beneath you, then it's safe to shoot at it while it's running beneath you. Same thing with any other shot you would take - if the backdrop is safe then it doesn't matter if it's running or standing still...

[2rugers]

Unethical implies right or wrong. If you are using a legal method in a MORAL manner to take the game you pursue then it cannot be unethical.
A shot on running game within a reasonable distance, under reasonable circumstances, should be completely acceptable.
If the hunter has the oppurtunity to take the animal relaxed and unaware, he should do so.
He should not JUMP the animal solely for BRAGGIN RIGHTS on a tough shot. This would be UNETHICAL AND IMMORAL.
Should the hunter take a running shot on deer at 100 yds. using a shotgun and buckshot? NO. The possibility of hitting the animal is 50/50. The possibility of inflicting a wound that the animal will suffer from without being harvested by that hunter is far greater.
On the other hand should the hunter take a 150 yd. open field shot on a running deer with a high power rifle? (If he feels capable and so chooses), ABSOLUTELY.
Also, using this type of reasoning, shooting birds on the wing, be they ducks, dove quail etc. would also be taboo.
Waiting for them to lite in woods or water would guarantee the hunter a much lower probability of a wounding shot than one taken at them while " on the wing".
Which animals do we give our sense of morality and ethics to? Only big game? Only mammals? Ever run over a snake in the road on purpose?
How many of us hunted birds and whatever else we could find with BB guns and slingshots as kids with no intention of eating the sparrow if we did happen to kill it?
My intention was never to wound the prey, but to kill it and standing still or not if I believe it is within my ability to take my quarry I will give it a go.

[WeedWacker]

I don't think it is so much unethical as dangerous. A moving target changes the background and sometimes you cannot anticipate wht will be there. Only time I shot at a running target was when it was with 20 yards in thick underbrush and the deer was already wounded. even then it was my rifled 20 ga youth 870 and not a high powered rifle (the small size makes them ideal for brush gun. My dad uses it for that purpose now) the backdrop was a valley wall on our private property with us being the only hunters there, shooting away from the road and other farm houses

[Nanuk]

In the great state of North Dakota, you can see for 20 miles. The average shot on a whitetail is about 300 yards. It is not uncommon here to have a 300 yard running shot, but here we use rifles. I took a nice buck several years ago, quartering away at a trot, at about 1/4 mile with my 30-06. I was firing sitting supported, led him about 4' level with the top of his head. Hit his spine above his heart. I know some of you are gonna say BS, but, until you hunt on the plains. FWIW I grew up in SW Michigan using 12ga slugs.

[22-rimfire]

Yes, you must be careful of your backstop on a running deer. Generally it is nearly impossible to know in the woods one way or the other. I had a hunter shoot a deer above me on the moutain (close); deer runs toward me (at about 75 yds initially); I have rifle up and animal is in scope; deer continues running toward me; more shots; deer falls; gets up and runs again, more shots; deer falls and starts crawling toward me; more shots; deer finally dies within 20 feet of me. The shots were literally directly at me. The deer was between the shooter and me. I hid behind a large tree as best I could to avoid getting hit.

Afterwards, the shooter walks toward the deer and I moved in his direction. He was a total AH toward me. He could have killed me quite easily. I have avoided using the word hunter after the intial couple of shots.... the man was dangerous!! To top it off, the idiot probably never knew what he did. I almost shot back..... I was a kid, now I'd probably shoot into a tree in his direction so he could get the whole effect of the muzzle blast that I was getting from him. I would not have left it go as I did then.

Just something to think about as you are wildly blasting away at a running deer.

[TJ Freak]

Running shot...My Granpa always told me if ya hear more than 2 shots, they missed. Shot placement and time on the range , or gravel pit or anywhere you can shoot a lot. A person should be practicing a lot all year long. Free hand and snap shots shoot , shoot, shoot. Get comfortable with your weapon. Get comfortable with your rifle, best advice anyone can give in my opinion.

We'll stop 'em at the Cascades.

RG