Training Without Hearing Protection - Page 3

quepasakimosabe · October 26, 2011, 10:14 PM

hmm I maybe just wierd but i had a baseline hearing test done when I came in the military. Before I re-upped I had to get another test I was at the time working on Parris Islands Rifle range as an instructior and was speing all day on the firing line with sustained and rapid rates of fire....I know stupid, but I had no protection in so I could better hear the people yelling from center line and such and the recruits asking questions. For some strange reason My heaing baseline improved by 20% when I re-enlisted the first time. I did the test again last month to re-enlist again and it is still 20% up from the initial when I came in...explain that. I have no constant ringing, and I can hear things most people cannot like bumps in the night my wife and kids dont even hear.

dpetty121263 · October 26, 2011, 10:21 PM

What about if your totally deaf? I am totally deaf in my Left ear and 50%in my right due to a past brain tumor. I do wear a plug in my right ear but thinking in my left.

vytoland · October 26, 2011, 10:28 PM

not now.....not ever

oldkim · October 26, 2011, 11:10 PM

Whaaaat? I can't hear you. Did you say something???

Ya, you'll become deaf pretty damn quick. Stupid.

It's like saying I wonder what it feels like to be shot? So, I'll just get shot and see....

Single Six · October 27, 2011, 12:24 AM

In over 2 decades thus far of full time LE, I have never trained without hearing protection, on departmental time or my own. In fact, whenever I'm shooting, I double up with both ear plugs as well as headphones. Anyone who recommends otherwise is someone I'd ignore.

output · October 27, 2011, 09:03 AM

Training without hearing protection is not a good idea.

Stevie-Ray · October 27, 2011, 05:59 PM

Quote:

So, do any of you actually train by firing your weapon without ear protection?

Not only no but, HELL NO! I can't improve on anything Kraig said, but I am with him 1000%

Living with impaired hearing is no fun at all.

Peterlago · October 27, 2011, 09:22 PM

Wow! just Wow!
No amount of Hearing loss will EVER help you anywhere in life..
(unless your at a highschool musical)

Im not just an NRA instructor.
I also Own a Recording studio and am a 16 Year Veteran of Live Sound in Stadium Venues so..

Heres a review that should shed some light on this subject.

http://www.amazon.com/review/R16YG7R...R16YG7R1B1FW0O

In this case, I am not endorsing the Product Line as much as the Philosophy of Use.

WANT A LCR 22LR · October 27, 2011, 10:02 PM

" What about if your totally deaf? I am totally deaf in my Left ear and 50%in my right due to a past brain tumor. I do wear a plug in my right ear but thinking in my left. "

Yes, put plugs in both. If a med breakthrough comes along to fix your problem, but things are too damaged by loud sounds, the fix won't work.

Kimbertron · October 27, 2011, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Yes, put plugs in both. If a med breakthrough comes along to fix your problem, but things are too damaged by loud sounds, the fix won't work.

I was born deaf and almost always wear hearing protection for this reason. Not sure if i would choose to repare my hearing if it becomes possible but i would rather have the option.

old bear · October 28, 2011, 03:31 PM

Quote:

tactically speaking - I wonder how situationally aware someone is going to be later on in life when they can't hear...

+1.

To the O/P, your friend has given you some terrible advice. DON'T DO IT..

brickeyee · October 29, 2011, 10:06 AM

Quote:

I was born deaf and almost always wear hearing protection for this reason. Not sure if i would choose to repare my hearing if it becomes possible but i would rather have the option.

THIS.

A very rational choice.

Maximus856 · October 29, 2011, 11:31 AM

The only time aside from overseas that I didn't use hearing protection was as a teamleader in squad+ size trainig exercises. It wasn't to prepare our hearing, but when you have to communicate down a line in order to keep everyone firing when and where they need, it's good to be able to hear.

By no means am I recommending this, but it's what a lot of us did.

Glenn E. Meyer · October 29, 2011, 12:22 PM

Anybody post this:

http://www.stripes.com/news/despite-...roops-1.145733

Anyway - doing a touch of medical lit searching and there is little out there to recover lost hair cells. Cell replacement and gene therapies are very far away.

The issues are stopping the tinnitis and then repairing damage. Both are a neurological bear.

I worked for a bit on a team doing similar research on retinal damage. Monkey fetal cells, human fetal cells, stem cells, etc. I did behaviorial testing. It's a monster to crack.

There are all kinds of problems. For example, let's say you have been suffering from such damage for a long time and we do come up with some way to regrow hair cells. Guess what - the parts of the auditory cortex that used to connect may have lost the ability to process sound. That depends on a bunch of things.

Maybe we can't replace the receptor space for human speech.

Taking off my gun hat and putting on my work hat and reading about visual protheses problems indicates that auditory ones have similar complexities.

Bottom line - use hearing protection.

The analogy - would you not use eye protection to acclimate yourself to getting hit in the orbs by some blast or flying crap?

Stressfire · October 29, 2011, 01:01 PM

Once intentionally, with a P3AT, about 25 rounds at a coffee can on a fence post.

Right ear rang for 3 days, won't be doin' that one again.

Prior to that, was taking turns with FiL on coon-watch for some critters that had been harassing their chickens (raccoons had killed-slaughtered, really, they ate none of them-the entire brood the previous year).

About 5-10 shots of 22LR a night (shot from the kitchen table through a screen window) for a week. There were a lot 'o coons in them there woods-we got 1 almost every shot.

No hearing issues, from that one, but much longer barrel and very small cartridge.

federali · October 30, 2011, 01:58 PM

One round can cause hearing damage. I have mild tinnitus in one ear from a single "Treasury load" out of a 2" Dick Special. LE never practices without hearing protection and we required double hearing protection (muffs and plugs) on indoor ranges. I'm also a Vietnam veteran and we never once trained without hearing protection.

Mello2u · October 30, 2011, 11:16 PM

Has anyone found an electronic hearing protector that has a noise reduction ration that is greater than 33 (NRR 33 dB)?

Pro-Ears has an expensive one with that rating.
Peltor has one at about half the price but with only a NRR 26 dB rating.

brickeyee · October 31, 2011, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Pro-Ears has an expensive one with that rating.
Peltor has one at about half the price but with only a NRR 26 dB rating.

And if you pass the temples of your shooting glasses under the muff and behind your ears they will not even be close to their rating.

C0untZer0 · November 25, 2011, 12:34 PM

"Rock Fan Kills Himself After Concert Left Him With Tinnitus"

I don't do anything to risk my hearing anymore.

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/1...tcmp=obnetwork

A friend of mine invited me to see a Chicago cover band. It was really loud, so I put in my earplugs

Ya, I looked silly, going to see a band and them putting ear plugs in, but I don't want to lose anymore of my hearing.

Hook686 · November 25, 2011, 02:44 PM

50 years ago in USAF basic training with the M1 Carbine I do not recall using hearing protection. Did anyone in the WWII, Korea, or early Vietnam (pre 1965) era recall using hearing protection during basic training ?

WildBill45 · December 13, 2011, 08:18 PM

Quote:

So, do any of you actually train by firing your weapon without ear protection? Is this common in modern military or law enforcement training?

I am an old school hunter, from Africa to Canada, and I shot all the time without ear protection. I know the blast in my face, and in my ears. I also shot some without ear protection fooling around doing police stuff, and for real without ear protection.

When scared, it doesn't make much difference anyhow, trust me.

MTT TL · December 13, 2011, 08:34 PM

Quote:

50 years ago in USAF basic training with the M1 Carbine I do not recall using hearing protection. Did anyone in the WWII, Korea, or early Vietnam (pre 1965) era recall using hearing protection during basic training ?

WWII kicked off a campaign of hearing protection because so many vets had hearing damage. It was not until 1983 that OSHA mandates started to appear. It was not until about twenty years ago that the Army started pushing it. These days it is well stressed in good units.

stonewall50 · December 14, 2011, 06:41 PM

My time shooting shotguns my dad dropped these old fashion spray painted green hearing protectors. They had cotton stuffed them to help muffle the sound, and they were probably the most ungodly uncomfortable things I have ever worn(next to the baffle plugs). Being a duck hunter in tight Florida swamps or in a boat right next to someone, you really start to understand how loud a shotgun can actually be. I was so protective of my hearing that I wouldn't hunt without them. Of course this got me made fun of by cousins and family members. I even hated the idea of turkey hunting or deer hunting without protection (because I "didn't need them" for firing 1 shot).

Over the years of being made fun of, and going through some different types of hearing protection (plugs, headphones, electronic headphones, etc), I started to figure something out. I was always the person confirming if that sound was a turkey, a deer blowing, whislting wings, or what that sound was way out there. Gradually those mysterious sounds grew closer, and now it is to the point that that mysterious "turkey" we hear gobbling is a dog barking or a wood pecker making a sound lol.

Don't try to be macho. Don't try to prepare for something that won't be a factor in the 1-10 seconds you might deal with.

jimbob86 · December 14, 2011, 06:46 PM

Trainign without earpro is a Great Idea! ...... if you are training to be deaf.

WildBill45 · December 14, 2011, 08:12 PM

Bottom line ... WEAR PROTECTION!

Not doing so is tantamount to having someone break your nose before a boxing match for training!

October 26, 2011, 10:14 PM	#51
quepasakimosabe Member Join Date: October 10, 2011 Location: Camp Lejeune, NC Posts: 79	hmm I maybe just wierd but i had a baseline hearing test done when I came in the military. Before I re-upped I had to get another test I was at the time working on Parris Islands Rifle range as an instructior and was speing all day on the firing line with sustained and rapid rates of fire....I know stupid, but I had no protection in so I could better hear the people yelling from center line and such and the recruits asking questions. For some strange reason My heaing baseline improved by 20% when I re-enlisted the first time. I did the test again last month to re-enlist again and it is still 20% up from the initial when I came in...explain that. I have no constant ringing, and I can hear things most people cannot like bumps in the night my wife and kids dont even hear. __________________ To sum it up: Somewhere there is a TRUE BELIEVER training, he will not stop in his mission, he knows only the cause. What have you done today? For your brothers at arms, friends, family, your country, yourself?

October 26, 2011, 11:10 PM	#54
oldkim Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2008 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 462	No hearing... Whaaaat? I can't hear you. Did you say something??? Ya, you'll become deaf pretty damn quick. Stupid. It's like saying I wonder what it feels like to be shot? So, I'll just get shot and see.... __________________ "Shoot Safetly, Shoot Often and Share Your Sport." Jim Scoutten, Shooting USA Check out my new website: www.shootonthemove.org

October 27, 2011, 12:24 AM	#55
Single Six Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2010 Location: N.C. Posts: 1,522	In over 2 decades thus far of full time LE, I have never trained without hearing protection, on departmental time or my own. In fact, whenever I'm shooting, I double up with both ear plugs as well as headphones. Anyone who recommends otherwise is someone I'd ignore. __________________ Seen on a bumper sticker: "Exercise. Eat right. Take vitamins. Die anyway."

October 27, 2011, 09:03 AM	#56
output Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2008 Posts: 294	Training without hearing protection is not a good idea. __________________ "All the great things are simple, and many can be expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." -Winston Churchill

October 27, 2011, 09:22 PM	#58
Peterlago Junior Member Join Date: October 27, 2011 Location: MAUI Posts: 2	Training Without Hearing Protection Wow! just Wow! No amount of Hearing loss will EVER help you anywhere in life.. (unless your at a highschool musical) Im not just an NRA instructor. I also Own a Recording studio and am a 16 Year Veteran of Live Sound in Stadium Venues so.. Heres a review that should shed some light on this subject. http://www.amazon.com/review/R16YG7R...R16YG7R1B1FW0O In this case, I am not endorsing the Product Line as much as the Philosophy of Use. __________________ Proud NRA Life Member. Certified NRA Instructor. (Pistol,Shotgun,Rifle,PPITH,Firearms Safety)

October 26, 2011, 10:21 PM	#52
dpetty121263 Junior Member Join Date: October 26, 2011 Posts: 3	What about if your totally deaf? I am totally deaf in my Left ear and 50%in my right due to a past brain tumor. I do wear a plug in my right ear but thinking in my left.

October 26, 2011, 10:28 PM	#53
vytoland Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 614	not now.....not ever

October 27, 2011, 10:02 PM	#59
WANT A LCR 22LR Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Posts: 389	" What about if your totally deaf? I am totally deaf in my Left ear and 50%in my right due to a past brain tumor. I do wear a plug in my right ear but thinking in my left. " Yes, put plugs in both. If a med breakthrough comes along to fix your problem, but things are too damaged by loud sounds, the fix won't work.

October 29, 2011, 11:31 AM	#63
Maximus856 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2006 Location: PA Posts: 547	The only time aside from overseas that I didn't use hearing protection was as a teamleader in squad+ size trainig exercises. It wasn't to prepare our hearing, but when you have to communicate down a line in order to keep everyone firing when and where they need, it's good to be able to hear. By no means am I recommending this, but it's what a lot of us did. __________________ "In 1968 for my senior field trip I was sent to RVN" -Hunter Customs "It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger." -Dwight D. Eisenhower

October 29, 2011, 12:22 PM	#64
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Anybody post this: http://www.stripes.com/news/despite-...roops-1.145733 Anyway - doing a touch of medical lit searching and there is little out there to recover lost hair cells. Cell replacement and gene therapies are very far away. The issues are stopping the tinnitis and then repairing damage. Both are a neurological bear. I worked for a bit on a team doing similar research on retinal damage. Monkey fetal cells, human fetal cells, stem cells, etc. I did behaviorial testing. It's a monster to crack. There are all kinds of problems. For example, let's say you have been suffering from such damage for a long time and we do come up with some way to regrow hair cells. Guess what - the parts of the auditory cortex that used to connect may have lost the ability to process sound. That depends on a bunch of things. Maybe we can't replace the receptor space for human speech. Taking off my gun hat and putting on my work hat and reading about visual protheses problems indicates that auditory ones have similar complexities. Bottom line - use hearing protection. The analogy - would you not use eye protection to acclimate yourself to getting hit in the orbs by some blast or flying crap? __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

October 29, 2011, 01:01 PM	#65
Stressfire Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,497	Once intentionally, with a P3AT, about 25 rounds at a coffee can on a fence post. Right ear rang for 3 days, won't be doin' that one again. Prior to that, was taking turns with FiL on coon-watch for some critters that had been harassing their chickens (raccoons had killed-slaughtered, really, they ate none of them-the entire brood the previous year). About 5-10 shots of 22LR a night (shot from the kitchen table through a screen window) for a week. There were a lot 'o coons in them there woods-we got 1 almost every shot. No hearing issues, from that one, but much longer barrel and very small cartridge. __________________ "The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank" - Montgomery Scott

October 30, 2011, 01:58 PM	#66
federali Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2011 Location: Nassau County NY Posts: 378	Empty-headed pontificators One round can cause hearing damage. I have mild tinnitus in one ear from a single "Treasury load" out of a 2" Dick Special. LE never practices without hearing protection and we required double hearing protection (muffs and plugs) on indoor ranges. I'm also a Vietnam veteran and we never once trained without hearing protection. __________________ Int'l Assoc. of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors

October 30, 2011, 11:16 PM	#67
Mello2u Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2009 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,424	Has anyone found an electronic hearing protector that has a noise reduction ration that is greater than 33 (NRR 33 dB)? Pro-Ears has an expensive one with that rating. Peltor has one at about half the price but with only a NRR 26 dB rating. __________________ NRA Life Member - Orange Gunsite Member - NRA Certified Pistol Instructor "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." Frederic Bastiat

November 25, 2011, 12:34 PM	#69
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	Tinnitus can drive you crazy "Rock Fan Kills Himself After Concert Left Him With Tinnitus" I don't do anything to risk my hearing anymore. http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/1...tcmp=obnetwork A friend of mine invited me to see a Chicago cover band. It was really loud, so I put in my earplugs Ya, I looked silly, going to see a band and them putting ear plugs in, but I don't want to lose anymore of my hearing.

November 25, 2011, 02:44 PM	#70
Hook686 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2005 Location: USA The Great State of California Posts: 2,090	Back in the day ... 50 years ago in USAF basic training with the M1 Carbine I do not recall using hearing protection. Did anyone in the WWII, Korea, or early Vietnam (pre 1965) era recall using hearing protection during basic training ? __________________ Hook686 When the number of people in institutions reaches 51%, we change sides.

December 14, 2011, 06:41 PM	#73
stonewall50 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 668	My time shooting shotguns my dad dropped these old fashion spray painted green hearing protectors. They had cotton stuffed them to help muffle the sound, and they were probably the most ungodly uncomfortable things I have ever worn(next to the baffle plugs). Being a duck hunter in tight Florida swamps or in a boat right next to someone, you really start to understand how loud a shotgun can actually be. I was so protective of my hearing that I wouldn't hunt without them. Of course this got me made fun of by cousins and family members. I even hated the idea of turkey hunting or deer hunting without protection (because I "didn't need them" for firing 1 shot). Over the years of being made fun of, and going through some different types of hearing protection (plugs, headphones, electronic headphones, etc), I started to figure something out. I was always the person confirming if that sound was a turkey, a deer blowing, whislting wings, or what that sound was way out there. Gradually those mysterious sounds grew closer, and now it is to the point that that mysterious "turkey" we hear gobbling is a dog barking or a wood pecker making a sound lol. Don't try to be macho. Don't try to prepare for something that won't be a factor in the 1-10 seconds you might deal with. __________________ Faith Reason Fraternus

December 14, 2011, 06:46 PM	#74
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	Trainign without earpro is a Great Idea! ...... if you are training to be deaf.

December 14, 2011, 08:12 PM	#75
WildBill45 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2011 Location: Western PA. Posts: 1,630	Bottom line ... WEAR PROTECTION! Not doing so is tantamount to having someone break your nose before a boxing match for training! __________________ ......................................................... "If Ands and Buts were Candy and Nuts, everyday would be like Christmas"

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