357 Magnum Rifle Bullet

garryc · May 12, 2014, 09:18 AM

I'm putting together a 357 magnum load for a 12 years old boy to use deer season. His is on the small side, but now shoots a 20ga slug.

I have Hornady 158 grain XTP's that I'm sure would do fine, but I also have 300 or so of the discontinued Speer 160 grain semi jacketed soft points. Both would be with H110. It's not likely the boy will get any shots beyond 50 yards, from the stand he and his father sit in 30 is more likely. I always thought that bullet would do well on a deer from a rifle.

Has anyone actually shot a deer with the 160 grain bullet from a rifle? How did it do?

It is the second bullet from the left and the center loaded round.

buck460XVR · May 12, 2014, 10:43 AM

The bullet seems to be the old SJSWC. Depending on the rifle, I wonder how it would feed. I know some levers don't like SWCs and have heard some using them in 77/357s have had feed issues with SWCs. In a SS I doubt there would be an issue. While the XTP is a good bullet in .357, for use in my .357 carbines for hunting deer, I prefer their XTP-FP, as it tends to hold together better @ carbine velocities. If that is not available, I prefer to use a JSP as opposed to any JHP.

NoSecondBest · May 12, 2014, 02:44 PM

garryc,
I've shot in excess of 50 deer with the handgun and by far the majority were shot with the 357mag. Of those, the most were shot with Hornady 158g XTP bullets. They work very, very well on whitetails within the distances you indicate you will be shooting at. When I've used a 357mag rifle (I had a Marlin in 357mag for a while) I preferred the Hornady 180g XTP. Either one will work very well on deer and expansion will be very good at the distances you mention.

buck460XVR · May 12, 2014, 03:04 PM

Good reference for XTP bullets. Many JHPs in .357 are designed more for SD/HD as opposed to penetration and expansion in big game. I've always assumed that the reason Hornady gives slower max velocities for it's 158 XTP-HP than its 140 and 125 JHP is because it's thinner jacket is designed to expand at slower SD/HD velocities. My .357 carbine loads using H110 run somewhere in the vicinity of 1700 fps.

BigJimP · May 12, 2014, 03:26 PM

I think either grain bullet is probably fine...

However, I wouldn't load a bullet for .357 Mag that did not have a cannelure ring on it...for crimping. Without that cannelure ring, you risk the bullet moving in the case ( kind of like a kinetic bullet puller ) ...as you fire the weapon.

158 gr should be fine - especially at 30 yds. I've taken several white tail deer - with a lever action Henry in .357 mag...between 50 and 75 yds.

snaketail · May 12, 2014, 03:41 PM

Depends on the rifle.
A Rossi will have a 1:30 twist and works well with 125gr bullets
A Marlin has a 1:16 twist and can stabilize a heavier bullet like a 180gr

A fast moving 125gr will take a whitetail, however you might need the 180gr for mule deer or those big whitetails in So Texas.

buck460XVR · May 12, 2014, 04:23 PM

Quote:

However, I wouldn't load a bullet for .357 Mag that did not have a cannelure ring on it...for crimping. Without that cannelure ring, you risk the bullet moving in the case ( kind of like a kinetic bullet puller ) ...as you fire the weapon.

While this may be true in a revolver, in a rifle the recoil is much less and the chance of bullet "jump" is minimal. One is more likely to experience "set back" in a tubular mag gun, like a lever. One reason 30-30 and .32 Special bullets have a cannelure on them. In a SS rifle, there would be neither. One reason a heavy crimp is required in handgun ammo is when using a slow burning powder like H110 as the OP says he will be using. A heavy crimp helps with ignition and consistent burn.

NoSecondBest · May 12, 2014, 06:24 PM

Quote:

While this may be true in a revolver, in a rifle the recoil is much less and the chance of bullet "jump" is minimal. One is more likely to experience "set back" in a tubular mag gun, like a lever. One reason 30-30 and .32 Special bullets have a cannelure on them. In a SS rifle, there would be neither. One reason a heavy crimp is required in handgun ammo is when using a slow burning powder like H110 as the OP says he will be using. A heavy crimp helps with ignition and consistent burn.

The OP didn't say he was going to be using a single shot rifle.

jersurf101 · May 12, 2014, 07:33 PM

I have loaded 158 gr Hornady XTPFP's over a stiff charge of 2400 for deer in my .357 magnum rifle. Unfortunately I did not see any deer with the rifle in my hand or I would have tried it out. Got a small buck with my .270 last year instead.

buck460XVR · May 12, 2014, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted byNoSecondBest:

The OP didn't say he was going to be using a single shot rifle.

I didn't say he did. He didn't tell us what kind of rifle the boy would be using, that is why I made reference to all three types of known .357 rifles in my posts. You musta missed that..........

garryc · May 12, 2014, 10:19 PM

Rossi 92. It can only be loaded with three rounds. The 158 grain xtp and the 160 grain speer are the only choices here. Of course I could load a lee 158 grain GC bullet.

reloader28 · May 13, 2014, 07:50 AM

If you have the Lee bullet, then why the debate????
Load up some cast boolits and let er buck.
I know the Lee 158gr RF does excellent on deer even with harder clip on WW.

buck460XVR · May 13, 2014, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by garryc:

Rossi 92. It can only be loaded with three rounds. The 158 grain xtp and the 160 grain speer are the only choices here. Of course I could load a lee 158 grain GC bullet.

The concern I had for the 160gr Speer was not it's terminal performance, but how well it would feed in a lever. My Model 92 has fed most everything I have fed it and it's very accurate. I did have to install a taller front sight for shooting 158s at hunting velocities. My concern for the XTP is lack of penetration because of excessive expansion @ carbine velocities if the shoulder is hit. Better penetration @ higher velocities is why they have the XTP-FP. While I prefer it over the standard XTP-HP outta a carbine, it too should work. The XTPs are very accurate and feed very well. Have no experience at all with the 158GC. Odds are it would work fine on deer. If you are limited to only those three bullets, and they all feed well, then I would opt for the one most accurate.

**44 AMP** · May 13, 2014, 11:09 AM

The SWCs feed in the Marlin, but only if you work the lever "just right", otherwise they like to hang up on feeding. RN or the usual JHP profile bullets feed really well.

Can't say what they would do on deer, but I expect they would work well. Saw a fellow get shot, with that exact same bullet, 160gr Speer semi jacketed SWC, on top of a stiff charge of H-110, from a revolver.
He got hit in the shin. Barely missed the big bone, shattered 14cm of the small bone (and I mean shattered, no piece was longer than 3/8"!

).

I imagine a deer's shoulder (and from a rifle) would not seriously impede that load.

griz · May 13, 2014, 11:37 AM

A long time back I used a Speer 140 (or was it 146?) grain Jacketed SWC HP out of a Marlin. The buck weighed about 150 or a little more, and the bullet quartered through the shoulder and stopped at the ribs on the off side. That's only a sample of one, but with a heavier bullet and no hollow point, I would expect the performance to be better. By the way, my idea of better would be complete penetration on an a near broadside shot like that. So as long as it feeds well it sounds good to me.

Mike / Tx · May 13, 2014, 05:26 PM

I have killed deer with my GP-100 using the Speer bullet in the 146gr version, and it did OK. Same with the XTP used on feral hogs, they did OK. Granted you will have a bit more of a velocity edge than I had so you SHOULD get better performance from either of them.

If I were going to choose between them for your specific purpose I wold probably go with the XTP simply due to the rounded nose would be less likely to jam up in a hurried follow up shot scenario. The boy might not be the one with it in his hands at that point in time, and pop might also be a bit excited....

Just adding that out of personal experience as well.

Those Hornady XTP's are really good bullets, and even driven fast as I could get them in my GP and a couple of other bigger magnum revolvers, they have all held up really well and do make a good clean kill.

darkgael · May 15, 2014, 05:12 AM

I have not used the following on whitetails, though I intend to....Hornady's 140 grain LeveRevolution bullet for use in my little Rossi carbine. It is a combo that I shoot well at the short distances that I am apt to see deer here in NEPA.
Pete

May 12, 2014, 09:18 AM	#1
garryc Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2005 Posts: 2,536	357 Magnum Rifle Bullet I'm putting together a 357 magnum load for a 12 years old boy to use deer season. His is on the small side, but now shoots a 20ga slug. I have Hornady 158 grain XTP's that I'm sure would do fine, but I also have 300 or so of the discontinued Speer 160 grain semi jacketed soft points. Both would be with H110. It's not likely the boy will get any shots beyond 50 yards, from the stand he and his father sit in 30 is more likely. I always thought that bullet would do well on a deer from a rifle. Has anyone actually shot a deer with the 160 grain bullet from a rifle? How did it do? It is the second bullet from the left and the center loaded round.

May 13, 2014, 11:09 AM	#14
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,840	The SWCs feed in the Marlin, but only if you work the lever "just right", otherwise they like to hang up on feeding. RN or the usual JHP profile bullets feed really well. Can't say what they would do on deer, but I expect they would work well. Saw a fellow get shot, with that exact same bullet, 160gr Speer semi jacketed SWC, on top of a stiff charge of H-110, from a revolver. He got hit in the shin. Barely missed the big bone, shattered 14cm of the small bone (and I mean shattered, no piece was longer than 3/8"! ). I imagine a deer's shoulder (and from a rifle) would not seriously impede that load. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

May 13, 2014, 05:26 PM	#16
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	I have killed deer with my GP-100 using the Speer bullet in the 146gr version, and it did OK. Same with the XTP used on feral hogs, they did OK. Granted you will have a bit more of a velocity edge than I had so you SHOULD get better performance from either of them. If I were going to choose between them for your specific purpose I wold probably go with the XTP simply due to the rounded nose would be less likely to jam up in a hurried follow up shot scenario. The boy might not be the one with it in his hands at that point in time, and pop might also be a bit excited.... Just adding that out of personal experience as well. Those Hornady XTP's are really good bullets, and even driven fast as I could get them in my GP and a couple of other bigger magnum revolvers, they have all held up really well and do make a good clean kill. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX

May 15, 2014, 05:12 AM	#17
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	loads I have not used the following on whitetails, though I intend to....Hornady's 140 grain LeveRevolution bullet for use in my little Rossi carbine. It is a combo that I shoot well at the short distances that I am apt to see deer here in NEPA. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

May 12, 2014, 10:43 AM	#2
buck460XVR Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2006 Posts: 4,342	The bullet seems to be the old SJSWC. Depending on the rifle, I wonder how it would feed. I know some levers don't like SWCs and have heard some using them in 77/357s have had feed issues with SWCs. In a SS I doubt there would be an issue. While the XTP is a good bullet in .357, for use in my .357 carbines for hunting deer, I prefer their XTP-FP, as it tends to hold together better @ carbine velocities. If that is not available, I prefer to use a JSP as opposed to any JHP.

May 12, 2014, 02:44 PM	#3
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	garryc, I've shot in excess of 50 deer with the handgun and by far the majority were shot with the 357mag. Of those, the most were shot with Hornady 158g XTP bullets. They work very, very well on whitetails within the distances you indicate you will be shooting at. When I've used a 357mag rifle (I had a Marlin in 357mag for a while) I preferred the Hornady 180g XTP. Either one will work very well on deer and expansion will be very good at the distances you mention.

May 12, 2014, 03:04 PM	#4
buck460XVR Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2006 Posts: 4,342	Good reference for XTP bullets. Many JHPs in .357 are designed more for SD/HD as opposed to penetration and expansion in big game. I've always assumed that the reason Hornady gives slower max velocities for it's 158 XTP-HP than its 140 and 125 JHP is because it's thinner jacket is designed to expand at slower SD/HD velocities. My .357 carbine loads using H110 run somewhere in the vicinity of 1700 fps.

May 12, 2014, 03:26 PM	#5
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I think either grain bullet is probably fine... However, I wouldn't load a bullet for .357 Mag that did not have a cannelure ring on it...for crimping. Without that cannelure ring, you risk the bullet moving in the case ( kind of like a kinetic bullet puller ) ...as you fire the weapon. 158 gr should be fine - especially at 30 yds. I've taken several white tail deer - with a lever action Henry in .357 mag...between 50 and 75 yds.

May 12, 2014, 03:41 PM	#6
snaketail Junior Member Join Date: April 25, 2014 Location: Mid America Posts: 2	Depends on the rifle. A Rossi will have a 1:30 twist and works well with 125gr bullets A Marlin has a 1:16 twist and can stabilize a heavier bullet like a 180gr A fast moving 125gr will take a whitetail, however you might need the 180gr for mule deer or those big whitetails in So Texas.

May 12, 2014, 07:33 PM	#9
jersurf101 Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 553	I have loaded 158 gr Hornady XTPFP's over a stiff charge of 2400 for deer in my .357 magnum rifle. Unfortunately I did not see any deer with the rifle in my hand or I would have tried it out. Got a small buck with my .270 last year instead.

May 12, 2014, 10:19 PM	#11
garryc Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2005 Posts: 2,536	Rossi 92. It can only be loaded with three rounds. The 158 grain xtp and the 160 grain speer are the only choices here. Of course I could load a lee 158 grain GC bullet.

May 13, 2014, 07:50 AM	#12
reloader28 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2009 Location: nw wyoming Posts: 1,061	If you have the Lee bullet, then why the debate???? Load up some cast boolits and let er buck. I know the Lee 158gr RF does excellent on deer even with harder clip on WW.

May 13, 2014, 11:37 AM	#15
griz Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2000 Location: Middle Peninsula, VA Posts: 1,588	A long time back I used a Speer 140 (or was it 146?) grain Jacketed SWC HP out of a Marlin. The buck weighed about 150 or a little more, and the bullet quartered through the shoulder and stopped at the ribs on the off side. That's only a sample of one, but with a heavier bullet and no hollow point, I would expect the performance to be better. By the way, my idea of better would be complete penetration on an a near broadside shot like that. So as long as it feeds well it sounds good to me.