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View Poll Results: General Purpose Revolver, with personal defense in mind
Taurus Raging Judge 6" (.454 Casull, .45 Col and .410 Gauge) 6 9.52%
Taurus Raging Judge 3" 1 1.59%
Smith and Wesson "The GOVERNOR" 3" (.45 Colt, .45 ACP, and .410 Gauge) 16 25.40%
**Theoretical** Smith and Wesson "The GOVERNOR 6" 4 6.35%
Other Large Frame Revolver 6" 8 12.70%
Other Large Frame Revolver 3" 28 44.44%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 3, 2013, 12:03 PM   #51
mavracer
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Probably the best, and most truthful, fact based reviews of what the Judge can, and can't do.
Yep it's quite a bit bigger, holds 1 less round, is less powerful and less accurate making it a less effective SD weapon in every way.
Quote:
Had S&W came out with the Governor first it would have been heralded as the greatest innovation in self defense of the decade!
Not by me I figured out the problems and limitations of a 45Colt 410 decades ago with a T/C contender.
If you're happy with your judge that's fine but there are better options.
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Old November 3, 2013, 12:12 PM   #52
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^^^
Obviously you didn't watch both video reviews that disproved your negative comments.

Quote:
Yep it's quite a bit bigger,
I think he said something on the order of "Nearly the same size"

Quote:
is less powerful and less accurate
Not a direct quote, but something like "statistically equal" is how he described the power. Accuracy at 7 yds, the CCW testing standard, was equal as well.


Quote:
I figured out the problems and limitations of a 45Colt 410 decades ago
Again, if you would watch the video reviews you will find out that 'decades ago" there was no 410 ammunition made exclusively to perform well in a short, handgun length barrel. Today there are, and as per the tests performed in the reviews they do quite well.
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Old November 3, 2013, 12:33 PM   #53
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Go ahead and ignore the facts from the video.
30 to 40 FPS less velocity
nearly 2" longer OAL and nearly twice the width.
5 rounds vs 6
and 5.5" at 25 yards is pathetic accuracy for a gun that size.
Sheesh get a reality check I don't care how many times you say 5 is about the same as 6, 6>5
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Old November 3, 2013, 01:16 PM   #54
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What load are you guys using on the coons, Shortwave?
Since most of the coons/opossum I've shot have been in the barn/storage house, they have been at short range. Have used #4 and 6's as well as BB's loaded up by a friend of mine.

If memory serves me correctly I killed the squirrel with 6's. I was sitting on the deck and noticed the top of a corn stalk shaking. He had climbed halfway up a corn stalk and was preoccupied with an ear of my prize sweet corn letting me sneak to about 15ft away.
Could have shot him from the deck with either the .22 or shotgun but I felt like practicing my 'ninja' tactics that day.

He died valorously(for a corn thief) and I can only hope he thought his last meal was a good one.

FWIW, The Winchester PDX-1 round sound like it might be a good round to try as well but I have no personal experience with it.

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Old November 3, 2013, 09:09 PM   #55
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Quote:
Go ahead and ignore the facts from the video.
30 to 40 FPS less velocity
nearly 2" longer OAL and nearly twice the width.
5 rounds vs 6
and 5.5" at 25 yards is pathetic accuracy for a gun that size.
Sheesh get a reality check I don't care how many times you say 5 is about the same as 6, 6>5
Name one SD target that will know the difference of 30 to 40 fps when he is hit with a 200 grain bullet!

Neither I or the reviewer have argued the Judge has the same capacity as the XDs.

25 yards is an unrealistic civilian SD distance for most except the internet educated mall ninja. Possible, but so unlikely as to be non existant. That was also covered in the reviews. Claim SD at 75 feet, and have a very good, and expensive, legal team ready.

To your Judge hater's talking point about the size, as they say, "a picture is worth a thousand words". Here is a side by side, one on top of the opther comparison of my Judge Public Defender Poly, and my cold weather EDC Springfield XD40 Sub Compact. Admittedly a bit wider than the XDs in the review, but still quite concealable, and comfortable in a Theis IWB hybrid holster.








And a Colt 1991a1 Compact I have, but don't use as a CCW weapon.







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Old November 3, 2013, 09:17 PM   #56
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As far as accuracy, here is an example of my personal results with Winchester PDX1 225 gr. HP.

Slow fire, off hand S/A @ 10 yards.


Rapid fire off hand D/A @ 10 yards.

Reality check? I think "reality" is plainly shown here.
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Old November 3, 2013, 11:02 PM   #57
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Cheapshooter

The accuracy with my Judge shooting 45 LC at 10-12yds pretty much mirrors yours as well.

Slugs open up a bit more but are still center mass in the kill zone.
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Old November 4, 2013, 12:30 PM   #58
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check? I think "reality" is plainly shown here.
10 yards rapid fire

"There are better choices for SD than a Judge", does not mean it might not work fine, just that a gun that was smaller and lighter that holds more rounds and is far mor accurate would be better.
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Old November 4, 2013, 03:04 PM   #59
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just that a gun that was smaller and lighter that holds more rounds and is far mor accurate would be better.
I count four hols, the other two must be completely off the target.
No, the Judge PD Poly is not the ideal SD firearm. But it is certainly not the useless "gimmick" it is described as being by it's detractors. As stated in the video reviews it would not make the perfect CCW, but would be an excellent night stand gun for home defense.
I have choices in my CCW EDC firearms from a warm weather grab and go LCP to a KAHR CM9 in a Theis IWB holster, or pocket carry to a Ruger LCR, and a Springer XD40 Subcompact. But my Poly fits the bill perfectly as an anti-carjacking devise riding between the seat, and console of my truck. 8 70 gr., 36 caliber projectiles @ over 800 fps point blank within less than two seconds is undeniably an attack stopping situation. Backed up by 3 rounds of 225 gr, 45 caliber hollow points. Do that with your "six shooter". Just saying.
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Old November 4, 2013, 03:14 PM   #60
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I believe the pictured revolver is a S&W J-frame, holds FIVE rounds, and the paper pretty clearly shows five shots, two of them having gone through the one hole in the bottom right corner of the group.

I'm not so sure that ONE person in an argument MUST be wrong every time.

Sometimes I wonder if the participants agree?
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Old November 4, 2013, 03:18 PM   #61
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I put my take earlier in the thread, but here's another take that I have...

--I would rather carry probably a couple dozen or more different things for personal defense (any situation) than any Taurus Judge

--I would rather carry a Taurus Judge for personal defense than no firearm, for sure

--If coming to -ME- and asking for advice, I would tell anyone I care about to shop far & wide before settling on a Taurus Judge for defense, but at the same time, I will absolutely say and believe that:

--if that person has a choice between a Taurus Judge and no firearm, I'm very happy that they've chosen to carry a Taurus Judge and I'm very, very, very happy that another "good guy" has chosen to go armed.

If it's is your choice to carry a Taurus Judge for defense, I'm still very happy that you've chosen to arm yourself for defense, but you're wasting as much of my time trying to convince me that it's the best choice as I am of attempting to convince you that it isn't.

In the end, one more good guy out there that is armed, and I'm VERY happy about that. It might also be that I don't like the car you drive or the color you chose to paint your house, but I'm not sure why my opinion on THAT matters. (until someone asks me for it...)
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Old November 4, 2013, 04:41 PM   #62
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Buying a Judge or Governor is a personal choice just like anything else. I say buy whatever you like and don't worry about the naysayers on the internet. If Springfield had came out with the Judge instead of Taurus, 3/4 of the BS on the internet would have never happened.
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Old November 4, 2013, 05:25 PM   #63
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I believe the pictured revolver is a S&W J-frame, holds FIVE rounds
But that wasn't the claim in the post.
Quote:
"There are better choices for SD than a Judge", does not mean it might not work fine, just that a gun that was smaller and lighter that holds more rounds and is far mor accurate would be better.
No right or wrong, as long as no claim is made that the Judge/Governor platform is a useless gimick as many of the detractors have done. The video reviews, and personal results only prove that the 45/410 handgun can be a viable self defense option to quote Mchael Bane from his 2010 youtube video blog from the SHOT show.
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Old November 4, 2013, 09:37 PM   #64
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read about it from somebody that has actually shot one

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...rnor-take-two/



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Old November 5, 2013, 09:44 AM   #65
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But my Poly fits the bill perfectly as an anti-carjacking devise riding between the seat, and console of my truck. 8 70 gr., 36 caliber projectiles @ over 800 fps point blank within less than two seconds is undeniably an attack stopping situation. Backed up by 3 rounds of 225 gr, 45 caliber hollow points. Do that with your "six shooter". Just saying.
If you have such confidence in the 410 as a attack stopper why back them up with a less effective round?
How about I just keep my HK USP in my truck that way instead of 8 36 cal 70 gr projectiles I can send 8 45 cal 230gr golddots with 5 more for backup, just saying.

Quote:
But that wasn't the claim in the post.
Not really sure where you're trying to go here are you saying that larger capacity guns dont exist or that you think I can't shoot a compact higher capacity as well as I do a airweight J frame.
Or is the cold hard reality that the Judge's accuracy sucks requiring you to divert attention away by any means?
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Old November 5, 2013, 01:03 PM   #66
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First two rounds of 410 buckshot for very up close target. 45 Colt to back up the first two in case of an additional attacker at a farther distance. In the driver's seat pocket carry would be very difficult to deploy the gun. IWB holster almost as much. But the PD in a holster, nect to the seatbelt buckle is very easy to draw. Also, no moving my EDC from holster to holster entering, and leaving my truck. Just all more reasons that the Judge/Governor platform is a viable SD firearm, not just a gimmick.

I was just pointing out that you mentioned more round capacity, however the photo you posted still only showed 5 hits. That is if as pointed out two were in the same whole.

My accuracy with my PD Poly is just that, my accuracy. The photo I posted was from the very first time I shot the gun. Also, although I didn't have a shot timer to give an accurate reading, the rapid fire group was just that. Pretty much point and shoot D/A as fast as I could pull the trigger 5 times.

Again, I am not saying the 45/410 handgun is the perfect do all SD firearm. For CCW, my XD40 or CM9 are my choices. Along with my Elsie Pea as a BUG, or quick grab and go pocket carry. As a nightstand gun, the Springer, or KAHR are both good, but the Judge starts to have more viability. Of course my Remington 870 18" barreled, 7 shot 12 Ga. Is about as good as It gets for a "house gun". But then there is the roll of an anti carjacking truck gun. That's where for reasons I have pointed out the Judge Public Defender Poly really fits in. As a bonus, It also serves well as a snake protection sidearm. It does produce a very snake proof pattern to 10 to 15 feet with 7 1/2 shot. And just as 75 foot shots in self defense are nearly unheard of, and would most likely result in very expensive legal fees, a poisonous snake even at 10 feet isn't a threat.
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Old November 5, 2013, 01:18 PM   #67
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Or is the cold hard reality that the Judge's accuracy sucks requiring you to divert attention away by any means?
I wasn't precision bullseye shooting that target. As stated It was rapid fire, point and shoot that resulted in that target. More like 5 shots in probably less than 10 seconds. Poor accuracy? Don't think I would want to be the object of those 5 bullets!
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Old November 5, 2013, 01:59 PM   #68
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The Public Defender's accuracy with 45 Colts is sufficient to keep all shots on the torso a 25 yards, provided you can shoot. 50 would be a little iffy but I could make do at that distance.

In the grand scheme of revolvers, it's not very accurate. Viewed in the context of short-barreled carry guns, it's not bad.
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Old November 5, 2013, 02:16 PM   #69
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First two rounds of 410 buckshot for very up close target.
Any evidence that two 45 Colt rounds would be ineffective for this. and since I have 9 rounds on tap in my prefered truck gun (Sig P220) any reason to think 4 230gr golddots still leaving what you started with in the gun would be ineffective.
Quote:
But the PD in a holster, nect to the seatbelt buckle is very easy to draw. Also, no moving my EDC from holster to holster entering, and leaving my truck. Just all more reasons that the Judge/Governor platform is a viable SD firearm, not just a gimmick.
My P220 resides in the same place so this is moot.
Quote:
That is if as pointed out two were in the same whole.
Yes there are 2 in one hole as was pointed out.
Quote:
As stated It was rapid fire, point and shoot that resulted in that target. More like 5 shots in probably less than 10 seconds.
I did have timer 5 shots in under 2 from low ready. 10 ain't rapid just saying.

Quote:
Poor accuracy? Don't think I would want to be the object of those 5 bullets!
I wouldn't want to get splashed in the fase with warm cat urine and if it takes you 2 seconds per shot you're gonna be in a world of hurt before you get the first round off.
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Old November 5, 2013, 02:53 PM   #70
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You have an answer for everything obviously. I didn't say 5 seconds, or 6 or 7 because you would have doubted that as well. It's obvious that you are one of the closed minded "experts" that have no intention of ever giving the 45/410 platform it's due. Probably would be an entire different situation had S&W brought out the Governor first.
Anyway, you have your opinion, I have mine. I gave examples of what the 45/410 can do. Others may do better, others may do worse. I have no concerns about the "poor" accuracy of my Poly. 5 hits in however many seconds it took all in center mass is not an unacceptable level of accuracy for self defense.

But this conversation has led away from the OP which was which one, Governor of Judge NOT is the 45/410 platform a viable self defense firearm.

Judge:
Smaller, and lighter variants available
45Colt/410/454 Casull (454 in larger "raging" model
Lower cost

Governor:
1 round more capacity ( at the expense of a bit more size)
45 Colt/410/45ACP
S&W is to some a more trusted name.

So each has it's own advantage. It depends on what you want it for. Personally my PD Poly works best for the intended purpose, and is also a lot of fun to just play with blowing up various targets.
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Old November 5, 2013, 06:05 PM   #71
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Maybe we could get our own WildBill45 to video his outstanding pistol shooting skills with the Judge/Gov. to see if even he can hit with one.

Would like to see him try his 100yd shots with one.

FWIW, neither are target pistols. Neither were made to be. Neither claimed to be.

Both are capable of shooting accurate enough with the right ammo at SD distance to do the job.
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Old November 5, 2013, 08:22 PM   #72
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I chose the Governor for several reasons. I prefer S&Ws to most other brands and after hearing horror stories from my son's friend I decided the Governor was a better choice for me. I have, however owned Taurus pistols in the past with no problems. YMMV. tom.
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Old November 6, 2013, 03:05 AM   #73
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I truly don't understand polls like this one and threads where the OP asks, "Which gun should I buy"? I have never seen or heard of a specific firearm that didn't have detractors, especially on the internet.

I do not in any way think I'm a firearm expert. There are people much more experienced than I that own many more firearms than me. I own 11 rifles. 7 handguns and 9 shotguns. Each one was purchased after research but I didn't ask for advise on a forum.

I believe in buying what speaks to you and to hell what anyone else thinks. I don't believe in bashing other's firearm choices. I also don't believe in 500 yard shots at big game as so many internet posters allegedly do. These are my personal beliefs and would not try foist them on anyone(except my kids when I am paying for the firearm).

When I was a kid in the 60's I just had to have a pair of PF Flyers "with the action wedge). My mother said they were a gimmick and bought my tennis shoes at Sears. PF Flyers are not around anymore and time will tell if the Governor, Judge and Raging Bull will last. I will never own one but won't bash anyone who does.
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Old November 6, 2013, 05:11 AM   #74
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I'd kind of like to own a judge.
Since it wouldn't be getting a lot of heavy use, I see to reason to spend more on the S&W. Plus, the light weight versions would be more pleasant to carry.

It seems like it would - for me anyway - be a pretty perfect backup gun to carry hunting. A 30-30 does a number on small game, and a 6" 410 seems like it might have the range to pop any grouse unlucky enough to wander under my stand. Also, should the day come that I need a second shot to take a deer, the 45colt would be more than enough to fill that role.
If I lived in snake country, it would have a third purpose.

Also, if I ever again have to crawl under a barn to off a groundhog/raccoon it seems like it would be a pretty good tunnel gun.

For CCW I'll stick to my XDs/G19/SP101,
and for HD I'll stick to my 870/AR15/Wolfhounds
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Old November 6, 2013, 09:08 AM   #75
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsSiyt8XmOg

The above YouTube video shows me shooting the Governor with 6 .410 loads of 4 pellet 000 buckshot into a heart size group at 7 yards. This places 24 rounds on target in approximately 4 seconds. Other videos mentioned in this thread show the considerable penetration and power of these buckshot loads so anyone that thinks that human flesh is tougher than 3/4" plywood is not going to have their mind changed.
I originally bought a Judge but sold it to get the Governor's extra round capacity and S&W fit and action.

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