percieved recoil scoped vs unscoped?

Buzzard Bait · October 9, 2013, 10:32 PM

I have a light weight 308 rifle that for years was punishing to shoot. Better eye sight due to new glasses progressive lenses and a desire to shoot more traditionally got me to remove the scope and shoot iron sights. Now I know the gun is going to recoil harder with out the scope because it weighs less very simple physics. But the perceived recoil to me seems much less. I think I tighten up my shoulder with the scope from fear of being whapped over the eye buy the scope thus feeling more recoil where as with the irons I just let it come back and sort of go with the flow and it feels like less recoil. Has anyone else noticed this are am I just dreaming
bb

TXAZ · October 9, 2013, 10:41 PM

Getting whopped above the eye with a scope is a real pain (I've heard

) and the fear can affect your shooting. Yes the recoil will be marginally greater, but I wouldn't expect it to be substantially greater for a typical scope.

Video tape/ iPhone yourself and look at the difference.

Mobuck · October 10, 2013, 09:20 PM

Psychological fear of getting bopped by the scope very likely caused you to tense up. I've never been "bopped by the scope" but an old hunting buddy used to get the treatment about once a year. He got it from a 7mm mag in Montana, a 12 gauge slug gun in Illinois, and a TC 50 muzzleloader in Colorado while in my presence. He came up asking "did I hit it" each time. I can't say it made him a better shot.

kln4 · October 13, 2013, 04:52 AM

My M1A has a pretty good recoil also. My eye sight got worse as I got older so I mounted a scope. It never really occurred to me of the scope hitting me in the eye, and so far it hasn't. I've shot .308 since the mid 60's and I just "jamb" the butt into my shoulder the way I was trained to do, but sometimes I get lazy and forget and the rifle lets me know about it.

4runnerman · October 13, 2013, 07:02 AM

How does one get hit in the eye with a scope?. Not to pick here,but I have often wondered that. 40 plus years of shooting everything under the sun and never even been close to that happening. To me all I can come up with is it must be almost like limp wristing a pistol except you are limp necking ( new word

). The scope is 3 plus inches away from your eye,as the rifle recoils so does your head and shoulders.---right?.

I can imagine that a scope in the eye from a big hitter would very much be, so to say uncomfortable.

kln4 · October 13, 2013, 07:28 AM

I've seen a few. In every incident either the scope rings were too loose or the scope mount was either attached improperly or not tightened down.

jmr40 · October 13, 2013, 08:57 AM

I ran the math using this site. http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp
and a 150 gr 308 bullet @2800 fps with 47 gr of powder. I figured 7 lbs for an unscoped rifle, 8 lbs for a scoped rifle. That is about right with mounts. Recoil was 14.6 ft lbs vs 16.75 ft lbs. 2 1/2 ft lbs is about the same as the difference between a 30-06 and 308, so it should be noticeable. If your rifle is lighter, or heavier, the numbers will vary slightly, but the spread will be about the same.

I've long said that most felt recoil is between the ears. People often complain about certain guns recoil, magnums in particular, while suggesting a non-magnum alternative that actually has more recoil.

Quote:

I think I tighten up my shoulder with the scope from fear of being whapped over the eye buy the scope thus feeling more recoil

You are probably right. The secret to shooting heavy recoiling rifles is to relax and go with the flow. Fight it and it hurts. This is the same reason a lot of 150 lb guys are bothered much less by recoil than a 250 lb guy shooting the same gun. The little guy just moves with the recoil, while the heavier guy soaks it all up.

Art Eatman · October 13, 2013, 09:12 AM

Bloused eyebrow? Generally, from one or more: Scope mounted too far back, maybe due to short eye-relief. Crawling forward on the stock. Holding the rifle rather loosely, with the shoulder moving back from recoil.

JD0x0 · October 13, 2013, 11:32 AM

Getting bitten by the scope is 99% the shooters fault IMO. Good technique will avoid it, along with proper eye relief. It's the reason why my bro has been 'bitten' by his .177 cal pellet gun, yet my .270 win rifle has never gotten me, despite the optics having the same eye relief.

Mobuck · October 13, 2013, 07:46 PM

Several of the contacts I've seen were direct result of "crawling the stock" and/or shooting prone and not accounting for the change in angle of the body to stock.

Ricklin · October 13, 2013, 08:29 PM

Let's not forget the DIY guys. Most scope mounts allow a fair amount of latitude with regard to eye relief. Easy for a newbie to make a painful error with regard to eye relief.

Another is crawling the stock, probably more common.

Jim243 · October 14, 2013, 09:14 AM

Recoil on a scoped or non-scoped rifle will be the same regardless. How you hold the rifle will make the difference whether you get scope eyebrow or not.

I too have the habit of ridding up on the scope on high powered rifles, especially with high magnification (24 power) where the eye relief is less (about 3 inches).

The solution is to use a slip-on recoil pad which will give you a 1 inch longer length of pull on the stock and force you to stay away from the scope as well as reduce the felt recoil.

Jim

October 9, 2013, 10:32 PM	#1
Buzzard Bait Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Republic of Texas Posts: 502	percieved recoil scoped vs unscoped? I have a light weight 308 rifle that for years was punishing to shoot. Better eye sight due to new glasses progressive lenses and a desire to shoot more traditionally got me to remove the scope and shoot iron sights. Now I know the gun is going to recoil harder with out the scope because it weighs less very simple physics. But the perceived recoil to me seems much less. I think I tighten up my shoulder with the scope from fear of being whapped over the eye buy the scope thus feeling more recoil where as with the irons I just let it come back and sort of go with the flow and it feels like less recoil. Has anyone else noticed this are am I just dreaming bb

October 9, 2013, 10:41 PM	#2
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	Getting whopped above the eye with a scope is a real pain (I've heard ) and the fear can affect your shooting. Yes the recoil will be marginally greater, but I wouldn't expect it to be substantially greater for a typical scope. Video tape/ iPhone yourself and look at the difference. __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

October 13, 2013, 07:02 AM	#5
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	How does one get hit in the eye with a scope?. Not to pick here,but I have often wondered that. 40 plus years of shooting everything under the sun and never even been close to that happening. To me all I can come up with is it must be almost like limp wristing a pistol except you are limp necking ( new word ). The scope is 3 plus inches away from your eye,as the rifle recoils so does your head and shoulders.---right?. I can imagine that a scope in the eye from a big hitter would very much be, so to say uncomfortable. __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

October 13, 2013, 08:29 PM	#11
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,016	DIY?? Let's not forget the DIY guys. Most scope mounts allow a fair amount of latitude with regard to eye relief. Easy for a newbie to make a painful error with regard to eye relief. Another is crawling the stock, probably more common. __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free

October 14, 2013, 09:14 AM	#12
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	Recoil on a scoped or non-scoped rifle will be the same regardless. How you hold the rifle will make the difference whether you get scope eyebrow or not. I too have the habit of ridding up on the scope on high powered rifles, especially with high magnification (24 power) where the eye relief is less (about 3 inches). The solution is to use a slip-on recoil pad which will give you a 1 inch longer length of pull on the stock and force you to stay away from the scope as well as reduce the felt recoil. Jim __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum

October 10, 2013, 09:20 PM	#3
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	Psychological fear of getting bopped by the scope very likely caused you to tense up. I've never been "bopped by the scope" but an old hunting buddy used to get the treatment about once a year. He got it from a 7mm mag in Montana, a 12 gauge slug gun in Illinois, and a TC 50 muzzleloader in Colorado while in my presence. He came up asking "did I hit it" each time. I can't say it made him a better shot.

October 13, 2013, 04:52 AM	#4
kln4 Member Join Date: August 13, 2013 Posts: 82	My M1A has a pretty good recoil also. My eye sight got worse as I got older so I mounted a scope. It never really occurred to me of the scope hitting me in the eye, and so far it hasn't. I've shot .308 since the mid 60's and I just "jamb" the butt into my shoulder the way I was trained to do, but sometimes I get lazy and forget and the rifle lets me know about it.

October 13, 2013, 07:28 AM	#6
kln4 Member Join Date: August 13, 2013 Posts: 82	I've seen a few. In every incident either the scope rings were too loose or the scope mount was either attached improperly or not tightened down.

October 13, 2013, 09:12 AM	#8
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Bloused eyebrow? Generally, from one or more: Scope mounted too far back, maybe due to short eye-relief. Crawling forward on the stock. Holding the rifle rather loosely, with the shoulder moving back from recoil.

October 13, 2013, 11:32 AM	#9
JD0x0 Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2013 Posts: 1,037	Getting bitten by the scope is 99% the shooters fault IMO. Good technique will avoid it, along with proper eye relief. It's the reason why my bro has been 'bitten' by his .177 cal pellet gun, yet my .270 win rifle has never gotten me, despite the optics having the same eye relief.

October 13, 2013, 07:46 PM	#10
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	Several of the contacts I've seen were direct result of "crawling the stock" and/or shooting prone and not accounting for the change in angle of the body to stock.