shooting(smashed) 9mm and .22lr brass out of a 12 ga shell.

cajun47 · December 13, 2012, 11:07 AM

i smashed some 9mm brass with a sledge hammer that look pretty wicked with some sharp edges. smashed them like pancakes. i can fit 4 in a remington #8 low brass shell. would they damage the inside of the barrel?

i fit 21 of smashed .22lr brass.

hogdogs · December 13, 2012, 11:27 AM

If they get crossways, could they bind up?

That could be a bad pressure spike i reckon...

The other risk is that 2 or more get too tight together... Not being lead they will not swage down with the same ease...

Sounds like a recipe for disaster...

I surely would not try such... And under no cicumstances include any spectators in your folly if you choose to move forward by pulling the trigger backwards...

Brent

CurlyQ.Howard · December 13, 2012, 12:05 PM

Get them to try it on Myth Busters first.

hogdogs · December 13, 2012, 12:07 PM

Curly has a good idea...

Brent

Old Grump · December 13, 2012, 12:24 PM

Fit inside a shotshell cup probably not, key word being probably. Problems will happen after they leave the muzzle because of their shape. Wad falls away and their ballistics will be horrible, they will lose velocity fast and most likely spread out all over the place so forget about patterns unless you are belly button to belly button with your target. Things will get shot you never intended to get shot and your target will probably be the only thing not in danger. I would strongly advise against this particular experiment.

hogdogs · December 13, 2012, 12:27 PM

One more question??? You did remove the primers before smashing, correct???

Some if not most primers in the 9mm casings could be made of steel, right...

Brent

SoilworK777 · December 13, 2012, 03:52 PM

I'd guess they would produce a pretty poor pattern, and questionable penetration.

I wouldn't invest too much time and energy trying to make shotgun ammo that is "more deadly" than the over the counter variety.

cajun47 · December 13, 2012, 06:42 PM

well im glad i asked. i'll stick with lead.

MagnumWill · December 14, 2012, 09:26 AM

Something tells me it would mimic confetti made out of razor blades, as opposed to a cohesive shotgun pattern. Might come in handy- if you're fighting crows in an Alfred Hitchcock movie

Lee Lapin · December 15, 2012, 12:16 PM

A better approach to brass recycling - reload the 9mm brass, and swage .22 centerfire bullets out of the .22LR brass (http://www.corbins.com/jackets.htm#rfjm). Both of those projects will work out a lot better than shooting that brass out of a shotgun... for the reasons explained by previous posters.

PointOneSeven · December 15, 2012, 02:23 PM

A couple years back someone loaded dimes I believe on here, and they said the same thing. Flat projectiles don't pattern or penetrate well. Some of the 'SD' loads out there are interesting, with multiple size shot. Just for the 'science' or 'cool factor' I guess.

Creek Henry · December 15, 2012, 05:17 PM

If you fill the shell with some buffering medium, usually plastic filler these days, you should be fine... maybe.

jeepstrapped · December 15, 2012, 06:54 PM

Not quite the same but similar, I think I remember reading about something similar in the ABCs of Reloading.

If I remember correctly it had to do with cutting squares, and / or, triangles out of thin sheet metal.

I've always been a little intrigued by the idea.

johnwilliamson062 · December 16, 2012, 01:02 PM

Please pull by string.
300 year old oak tree optional.

Lee Lapin · December 16, 2012, 02:43 PM

In the days when fixed choke shotguns were all you could get, there were various options for "spreader" loads or brush loads to be used at close range, to mimic the effect of an open choke on patterns. Various approaches were used - inserting card stock dividers in the shot column for example. I even saw square shot available for reloading, don't know if it was ever commercially loaded or not. I used to slightly flatten round lead shot with a hammer to load my own spreader loads, and that definitely would open a pattern fast.

The last 'spreader' load I saw was one sold as a defensive load (can't recall if it was from Federal or Winchester), and it used a post molded into the center of the plastic wad/shot cup to open up the shot charge faster. A similar approach is used By Polywad today for upland game loads - http://www.polywad.com/spredr.html.

Lightweight, flat projectiles fired out of a shotgun are going to spread really fast, and lose velocity fast as well, and from the standpoints of patterning and penetration, be pretty much useless...

Shotgun693 · December 16, 2012, 04:06 PM

Billy the Kid really killed a Deputy with a load of silver dimes fried from a SXS shotgun. It was probably less than 7 yards distance. For some reason I never figured out, some guys would pour birdshot out of a shell and replace it with carpet tacks. I never worked a shooting where anyone was shot with carpet tacks but I'm sure it happened. All kinds of junk has been fired out of guns. The idea that some how the projectile might get wedged in the barrel is very improbable. If it's smaller than the bore and moving at 1200 fps it's going to exit.

BlackWorksInc · December 16, 2012, 05:51 PM

If you'r gonna try shooting weird projectiles out of a gun, why not use a blunderbuss? After all, wasn't it pretty much loaded with what ever you could fit in it?

CurlyQ.Howard · December 16, 2012, 07:25 PM

Here ya go! http://www.veteranarms.com/Reproduct...underbuss.html

Shotgun693 · December 17, 2012, 07:59 PM

Unless you're trying to convert a bird load to something heavier during an emergency situation, you're much better off just picking up a couple of boxes of buckshot.

johnwilliamson062 · December 18, 2012, 01:51 AM

I never thought about the flattening shot idea. If I can figure out a way to do it somewhat scientifically and quickly...

darkgael · December 18, 2012, 07:05 AM

Quote:

If you'r gonna try shooting weird projectiles out of a gun, why not use a blunderbuss? After all, wasn't it pretty much loaded with what ever you could fit in it?

No. That "load with what ever you could fit" is a myth. It is probably based on the appearance of the wide belled muzzle. It looks big. The actual bore, however, is a standard gauge, 12 for example.
BBs were most commonly used aboard ships and on stagecoaches.
The function of the belled muzzle was to facilitate reloading while on a moving platform. The standard load was shot. The non-standard load was more shot.
I have a 14 gauge BB with a 14" bbl. It is a hoot to shoot.
Pete

BlackWorksInc · December 18, 2012, 12:13 PM

Oh, interesting. I've always been told that they used small rocks, tacks, or what not in blunderbusses. Learn something new everyday.

December 13, 2012, 11:07 AM	#1
cajun47 Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Location: swamp people Posts: 539	shooting(smashed) 9mm and .22lr brass out of a 12 ga shell. i smashed some 9mm brass with a sledge hammer that look pretty wicked with some sharp edges. smashed them like pancakes. i can fit 4 in a remington #8 low brass shell. would they damage the inside of the barrel? i fit 21 of smashed .22lr brass.

December 13, 2012, 11:27 AM	#2
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Hey Ya'll watch this... If they get crossways, could they bind up? That could be a bad pressure spike i reckon... The other risk is that 2 or more get too tight together... Not being lead they will not swage down with the same ease... Sounds like a recipe for disaster... I surely would not try such... And under no cicumstances include any spectators in your folly if you choose to move forward by pulling the trigger backwards... Brent

December 13, 2012, 12:24 PM	#5
Old Grump Member in memoriam Join Date: April 9, 2009 Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in Posts: 3,144	Fit inside a shotshell cup probably not, key word being probably. Problems will happen after they leave the muzzle because of their shape. Wad falls away and their ballistics will be horrible, they will lose velocity fast and most likely spread out all over the place so forget about patterns unless you are belly button to belly button with your target. Things will get shot you never intended to get shot and your target will probably be the only thing not in danger. I would strongly advise against this particular experiment. __________________ Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster--

December 14, 2012, 09:26 AM	#9
MagnumWill Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Location: Central Colorado Posts: 1,001	Something tells me it would mimic confetti made out of razor blades, as opposed to a cohesive shotgun pattern. Might come in handy- if you're fighting crows in an Alfred Hitchcock movie __________________ Those who hammer their swords into plow shares will plow for those who didn't...

December 15, 2012, 12:16 PM	#10
Lee Lapin Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2004 Location: SE NC Posts: 1,239	A better approach to brass recycling - reload the 9mm brass, and swage .22 centerfire bullets out of the .22LR brass (http://www.corbins.com/jackets.htm#rfjm). Both of those projects will work out a lot better than shooting that brass out of a shotgun... for the reasons explained by previous posters. __________________ Mindset - Skillset - Toolset. In that order! Attitude and skill will get you through times of no gear, better than gear will get you through times of no attitude and no skill.

December 13, 2012, 12:05 PM	#3
CurlyQ.Howard Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2012 Posts: 280	Get them to try it on Myth Busters first.

December 13, 2012, 12:07 PM	#4
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Curly has a good idea... Brent

December 13, 2012, 12:27 PM	#6
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	One more question??? You did remove the primers before smashing, correct??? Some if not most primers in the 9mm casings could be made of steel, right... Brent

December 13, 2012, 03:52 PM	#7
SoilworK777 Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2009 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 247	I'd guess they would produce a pretty poor pattern, and questionable penetration. I wouldn't invest too much time and energy trying to make shotgun ammo that is "more deadly" than the over the counter variety.

December 13, 2012, 06:42 PM	#8
cajun47 Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Location: swamp people Posts: 539	well im glad i asked. i'll stick with lead.

December 15, 2012, 02:23 PM	#11
PointOneSeven Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2006 Posts: 579	A couple years back someone loaded dimes I believe on here, and they said the same thing. Flat projectiles don't pattern or penetrate well. Some of the 'SD' loads out there are interesting, with multiple size shot. Just for the 'science' or 'cool factor' I guess.

December 15, 2012, 05:17 PM	#12
Creek Henry Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2009 Location: Dallas Posts: 514	If you fill the shell with some buffering medium, usually plastic filler these days, you should be fine... maybe.

December 15, 2012, 06:54 PM	#13
jeepstrapped Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2009 Location: SD Posts: 141	Not quite the same but similar, I think I remember reading about something similar in the ABCs of Reloading. If I remember correctly it had to do with cutting squares, and / or, triangles out of thin sheet metal. I've always been a little intrigued by the idea.

December 16, 2012, 01:02 PM	#14
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	Please pull by string. 300 year old oak tree optional.

December 16, 2012, 02:43 PM	#15
Lee Lapin Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2004 Location: SE NC Posts: 1,239	In the days when fixed choke shotguns were all you could get, there were various options for "spreader" loads or brush loads to be used at close range, to mimic the effect of an open choke on patterns. Various approaches were used - inserting card stock dividers in the shot column for example. I even saw square shot available for reloading, don't know if it was ever commercially loaded or not. I used to slightly flatten round lead shot with a hammer to load my own spreader loads, and that definitely would open a pattern fast. The last 'spreader' load I saw was one sold as a defensive load (can't recall if it was from Federal or Winchester), and it used a post molded into the center of the plastic wad/shot cup to open up the shot charge faster. A similar approach is used By Polywad today for upland game loads - http://www.polywad.com/spredr.html. Lightweight, flat projectiles fired out of a shotgun are going to spread really fast, and lose velocity fast as well, and from the standpoints of patterning and penetration, be pretty much useless... __________________ Mindset - Skillset - Toolset. In that order! Attitude and skill will get you through times of no gear, better than gear will get you through times of no attitude and no skill.

December 16, 2012, 04:06 PM	#16
Shotgun693 Senior Member Join Date: September 3, 2011 Location: Poteet, Texas Posts: 959	Billy the Kid really killed a Deputy with a load of silver dimes fried from a SXS shotgun. It was probably less than 7 yards distance. For some reason I never figured out, some guys would pour birdshot out of a shell and replace it with carpet tacks. I never worked a shooting where anyone was shot with carpet tacks but I'm sure it happened. All kinds of junk has been fired out of guns. The idea that some how the projectile might get wedged in the barrel is very improbable. If it's smaller than the bore and moving at 1200 fps it's going to exit.

December 16, 2012, 05:51 PM	#17
BlackWorksInc Member Join Date: October 23, 2012 Posts: 28	If you'r gonna try shooting weird projectiles out of a gun, why not use a blunderbuss? After all, wasn't it pretty much loaded with what ever you could fit in it?

December 16, 2012, 07:25 PM	#18
CurlyQ.Howard Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2012 Posts: 280	Here ya go! http://www.veteranarms.com/Reproduct...underbuss.html

December 17, 2012, 07:59 PM	#19
Shotgun693 Senior Member Join Date: September 3, 2011 Location: Poteet, Texas Posts: 959	Unless you're trying to convert a bird load to something heavier during an emergency situation, you're much better off just picking up a couple of boxes of buckshot.

December 18, 2012, 01:51 AM	#20
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	I never thought about the flattening shot idea. If I can figure out a way to do it somewhat scientifically and quickly...

December 18, 2012, 12:13 PM	#22
BlackWorksInc Member Join Date: October 23, 2012 Posts: 28	Oh, interesting. I've always been told that they used small rocks, tacks, or what not in blunderbusses. Learn something new everyday.

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