|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
November 30, 2012, 07:08 AM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 10, 2012
Posts: 3,881
|
which Ar would you choose to buy ?
I have been looking at a Colt match target competition model and a Windham Weaponry varmint exterminator and deciding which one to buy.
I believe the Windham would be more accurate with a better trigger, compass lake chamber and matching bolt. The Colt trigger is not so good and I have heard of the Colt being referred to as a glorified service rifle with nothing really match grade about it. I have friends at the gun club that own the Windham and I know they are extremely accurate. The Windham is a 1 in 8 twist and the Colt is a 1 in 9 twist. Who on here has the Colt and what kind of accuracy do you get ? Last edited by rebs; November 30, 2012 at 08:56 AM. |
November 30, 2012, 06:14 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 9, 2008
Location: Woooooshington
Posts: 1,797
|
Either one would be fine. I've had Colt MTs that would shoot 3/8" with no other tweaks but a good scope and Black Hills match ammo. This is what I know about the Compass Lake chamber. I've not owned a Windham, but have every intention of getting one in the next few months. Based on what I've seen and read, I think they are, arguably of course, one of the best ARs out there for the money.
__________________
Shoulder Drive Nicholson Club |
December 1, 2012, 12:44 AM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 18, 2009
Location: NorthWest USA
Posts: 1,996
|
Sorry, but I just couldn't go with Windham since it's a zombie of the original Bushmaster because they're right back to cutting the same old corners in the same old factory.
Any AR that comes with a commercial diameter receiver extension is automatically off my good to go list. You won't see that in a Colt. When you see the commercial tube you can bet it's just the start of other cost savings measures a manufacturer considers acceptable. |
December 13, 2012, 10:18 AM | #4 |
Member
Join Date: October 22, 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 41
|
I bought my wife a Colt preban R6830 7.62x39 for her birthday in 1992. She loved it then and still does. I bought myself a Colt preban R6601 2.23 match H Bar in 1994. Both are great rifles. They don't have all the fancy bells and whistles on them available today. In fact other than the Trijicon on hers and the collapseble stocks on both, they are just as we bought them 20 or so years ago. I haven't shot a new one, but I'm sure if you spend somewhere between $1100 and $1500 and a major brand, you will be very happy.
__________________
Life member NRA |
December 13, 2012, 11:14 AM | #5 |
Staff in Memoriam
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA
Posts: 24,798
|
I bought a like-new Colt 20" plain vanilla about five years back. With irons I can get three shots into one MOA off the bench. Decent trigger. Plenty good for a social gun. I then got a CMMG 20" slow-twist upper, flat-top, for varmint and truck-gun use. Weaver K4 on top. Again, 3-shot one-MOA shooter.
I don't doubt that there's a bunch of others just as good, but the price was right and it's plenty good for non-precision messing around. |
December 13, 2012, 12:28 PM | #6 |
Member
Join Date: August 3, 2009
Posts: 32
|
Build one. If you can push two pins together you can put an AR together from an upper and lower reciever, and avoid the 11% tariff.
Also, Quentin2, you need to read up on Windham. They are more like the ORIGINAL bushmaster not the Ilion, NY crap that Remarlington puts out now. The Original Bushmaster rivaled Colt quality up until Remington ruined them. They shuttered the factory in Windham ME, layed off employees by moving production to the Ilion NY complex, and sold the rest back to the founder of Bushmaster. After 5 years of non-compete clause wore off, the founder of WW restarted the plant with some of the original workers, and started building Colt-Quality ARs again at affordable price. Look at a WW SRC and compare it to a Colt LE6920. you can do that at most Walmarts in the Southern US. Fit and Finish on the Windham is comparable to the Colt in every way except rate of twist (1/7 twist isn't good for 55 grain bulk ammo) Also, read up on who makes Colts lower recievers. A commercial tube is on 90% of the consumer ARs on the market including DPMS, Del-Ton, Doublestar and others. Just order a $30 UTG stock kit with the mil-spec tube and move on. That has no bearing on the quality of the rifle IMEO |
December 13, 2012, 12:35 PM | #7 |
Member
Join Date: October 29, 2012
Posts: 89
|
I second the Windham, worth a look. The barrel does have the 1in9 twist, fwiw.
Bob |
December 13, 2012, 03:35 PM | #8 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 18, 2009
Location: NorthWest USA
Posts: 1,996
|
Quote:
ETA: Also in your opinion why isn't 1/7 good for 55gr? In my experience and most others, 1/7 does just fine for 55gr and up. If you want to shoot low weight varmint rounds then 1/9 may be better however if you want to go above 69gr then 1/7 makes more sense. It's a tradeoff and we all must know what we're going to use the rifle for. BTW, I normally shoot 55 gr from my BCM, DD and PSA. Last edited by Quentin2; December 13, 2012 at 03:47 PM. |
|
December 13, 2012, 04:52 PM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 3, 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 1,244
|
I'd go with the Colt, it's the standard by which all other ARs are judged.
Does it cost more? Yes. Is it worth it? IMO, yes. Good luck.
__________________
"A man can be destroyed but not defeated". Ernest Hemingway Protect our 2nd Amendment Rights -- Join the NRA |
December 13, 2012, 05:03 PM | #10 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 15, 2010
Location: East Central Ohio
Posts: 143
|
Quote:
__________________
First it's pretty tires, then it's pretty guns and bows...next thing you know, you're shavin' your beard and wearin' capri pants |
|
December 13, 2012, 06:29 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 10, 2012
Posts: 3,881
|
There is a colt MT 6700 at the local gun shop right now brand new for 1300.00 out the door, BUT something in the back of my mind tells me not to buy it. Its a chrome lined barrel and I don't care for a chrome lined barrel, the trigger is kind of rough and heavy pull. I just don't see it as a match target rifle.
|
December 13, 2012, 08:21 PM | #12 |
Staff in Memoriam
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA
Posts: 24,798
|
rebs, I only know from reading, but most comments about chrome-lined say that they are a bit less capable of really-tight groups than are the plain steel.
Trigger comments have included very careful stoning of the sear engagment and polishing of the hinge pin. Most seem to change out to a Jewell or McCormick trigger or equivalent. |
December 14, 2012, 06:57 PM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 15, 2007
Posts: 1,707
|
Today held a Knights Armament rifle. The ambi controls are cool. The finish on the rifle was without peer for a rifle of that nature.
$2,300 price tag. Nice rifle if you have $2,300. |
December 14, 2012, 07:42 PM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 16, 2009
Posts: 201
|
Yes. Colt is certainly a standard by which others are judged.
Here is the rub, many are judged to be equal and BETTER than the Colt standard. In school, you can get a F, D, C, B, or an A grade. The "C" is the standard by which others are judged. |
December 14, 2012, 08:05 PM | #15 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 6,323
|
Quote:
Colt builds their guns "right." Still, if I want a match AR, I'll be shopping Compass Lake and requesting a premium barrel blank, which OMG is NOT chrome line, so it is match accurate! It is not reall milspec in any way! If I want a best fighting AR, I will build my own of top shelf BCM, Armalite, DD, etc parts so I KNOW the assembly is right. Likely, it won't be milspec either. If I want a plinking AR, it will be made by me from PSA, Magpul, SAA, etc parts. It will be the closest to milspec, but not as it will be purpose built for non-war fun. To buy your AR, know the spec basics, look the gun over, feel the trigger, weight balance and pick one for your mission. If you guessed wrong, you will likely be able to modify it to fit your mission better for a few $100, or likely, you could adapt yourself to help your gun fit its role! |
|
December 14, 2012, 08:09 PM | #16 |
Junior member
Join Date: February 27, 2009
Location: NC Foothills
Posts: 1,150
|
NCHP and most local LEO's here are carrying Rock River.
-7- |
December 14, 2012, 09:41 PM | #17 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 28, 2012
Posts: 215
|
Quote:
But, just making a general statement about Colt being the best just fuels the fire that you are just paying for the name. I think we should focus on what makes a Colt AR a good AR as opposed to it being good because it's a Colt. |
|
December 15, 2012, 05:01 PM | #18 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 3, 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 1,244
|
Quote:
I'm sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities with my post. I certainly wasn't implying what you read into it. On the other hand, I figured we all knew the history of Colt rifles and why they're regarded as an industry standard. BTW, I noticed you didn't offer the OP any suggestions about what to purchase. I'd suggest the next time you write a post you take a positive approach.
__________________
"A man can be destroyed but not defeated". Ernest Hemingway Protect our 2nd Amendment Rights -- Join the NRA |
|
December 16, 2012, 03:00 PM | #19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 24, 2002
Posts: 589
|
Bottom line, Colt bought the AR15 from the original Armalite. They have the TDP for both the M16 and M4. Thats what they build. BCM and Daniel Defense and others will also built to mil spec, but Colt has it down.
Buy what you like. But you can't go wrong with Colt especially for what 6920s have been available for lately. |
December 16, 2012, 04:37 PM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 25, 2007
Location: South Florida
Posts: 924
|
Have you considered building your own?
The truly critical parts are the barrel / bolt, bolt carrier, trigger group. The rest of the parts just hold the critical parts together. As long as they are made to MilSpec or equivalent, there is no need to spend big $ for a name. Buy yourself a high quality barrel / bolt. Preferably, buy the BCG from the same company. Buy a high quality trigger assembly, Geissele comes to mind. The lower and uppers, as long as they are made properly are not stressed, do not handle firing pressures and can come from any decent manufacturer. Build your own and save the $100.00 federal tax on complete firearms too! (Help wean the federal spendthrifts off our tax $. Spend the $ yourself.) Roger
__________________
Trigger control + Breath control + Sight alignment = Gun Control. http://www.hrpclub.info/ NRA Smallbore Prone Master, High Power Master |
December 16, 2012, 07:57 PM | #21 |
Junior Member
Join Date: December 16, 2012
Posts: 1
|
My duck hunting partner has a Les Baer flattop with a scope for ground squirrels. I have shot it and am convinced you could shoot golf balls at 300 yards.
They run around $2,200. |
December 18, 2012, 04:55 PM | #22 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 12, 2005
Location: North central Ohio
Posts: 7,486
|
Quote:
As to my recommendation, since the op stated that he is interested in a "match target competition" rifle, I say look at the Rock River Arms National Match A4. It comes with the Wylde chamber, the superb NM 2-stage trigger, a 20" long, air gauged, heavy match s/s barrel with a 1:8 twist and a detachable handle. The RRA rifle is relatively affordable (at least as compared to the Colt and other equivalent rifles), comes with a lifetime warranty and is guaranteed to shoot 3/4" MOA groups @ 100 yards. I have competed in the Service rifle matches at Camp Perry and other sites and have found my RRA match rifle to be accurate, reliable and well-made.
__________________
ONLY AN ARMED PEOPLE CAN BE TRULY FREE ; ONLY AN UNARMED PEOPLE CAN EVER BE ENSLAVED ...Aristotle NRA Benefactor Life Member |
|
December 18, 2012, 05:19 PM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,556
|
I would buy the Colt. They are a better known name with a good reputation. As it is, even though I never really thought I would, I'm thinking of getting a second LE6920.
|
December 19, 2012, 10:03 AM | #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 12, 2011
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,315
|
Colt is milspec. Day in and day out. That is best. It is not the very best money can buy. At some point you must consider better the enemy of good. Good enough is great. It all depends on your standards. Milspec is a good standard.
|
December 19, 2012, 11:15 AM | #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 25, 2012
Posts: 755
|
To be honest other than the finish, I have yet to see a newer manufactured AR style rifle that is unreliable. I own a DDV4, M&P15, CMMG, & Hk MR556. Each rifle has been 100% reliable. I only have a couple hundred rounds through the Hk, but still. I have owned Colt, DPMS, and RRA's versions too. All function exactly as they were designed. You need to decide which you want, because of the features you like. We can only offer facts and opinions. Best of luck with the decision, and enjoy whichever you choose.
__________________
" The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government...." - Thomas Jefferson |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|