Kidnapping Scenario:

ETorbin · February 8, 2002, 12:00 PM

You are alone it’s about 10:00 AM on a Saturday morning. You arrive at Home Depot (or any other store with a large parking lot) and are forced to park near the end of the lot about 200 feet to the door. After you have walked about 75 feet from your car and about 120 feet from the door, a full size van traveling perpendicular to you (which you noticed but was not unusual for the area) stops about 15 feet in front of you with the side of the van facing you. The door opens and a man in the back yells at you to get in while pointing a handgun at you. You are carrying in whatever way would be normal for you, and you assume that the bad guys don’t know. There are two men in the front of the van and only the one in the back.

What do you do?
1. Draw your weapon and fight.
2. Run away while screaming bloody murder (or FIRE).
3. Get in the van and hope your weapon is not discovered.
4. Something else.

If the bad guy had a shotgun or rifle instead of the handgun would your decision change?

Does the fact that you are a man/woman change your opinion?

I’m not sure if this scenario is survivable without gross incompetence from the bad guys.

Betty · February 8, 2002, 12:12 PM

Best case scenario: I'd duck (really, really fast) for cover between the other vehicles - I'm not going to draw on a guy who's already pointing a gun on me. After ducking down, I'd try to scoot away while drawing my gun, just in case he decides to get out of the van and come after me. I'd try to avoid a firefight if at all possible - there's probably bystanders around. If he comes after me, I'd have to shoot to defend myself.

I'd probably be screaming at the top of my lungs the whole time. I would believe most kidnappers want a quick hit-and-go without drawing too much attention to themselves, and the screaming would also get other people's attention, and they would hopefully hit the pavement upon seeing the man with a gun.

If the vehicle leaves, I'd try to get a license plate number and best description that I can.

I'd sure as heck try not to submit and get into van - that's his territory, and I'm not going into the lion's den.

striderteen · February 8, 2002, 01:28 PM

Well, it's a crowded parking lot, so there should be plenty of cover in the form of cars. Put my hands up and take a step towards the van, then fake a trip and get behind cover ASAP.

I'd shoot the gunman immediately and without hesitation -- he's a direct threat, and in any case he'll attack someone else if I don't put him down. Retreating isn't therefore really a viable option; I can get away, but the next victim might not.

Once the gunman's down, I'd order the two in the van out...if they didn't come out I wouldn't go after them, but if they try to run I'll try to shoot out the van's tires.

And, of course, I'd be yelling bloody murder throughout.

Dave R · February 8, 2002, 03:35 PM

What runt said. Drawing under that circumstance would definitely get you shot. Complying would probably get you killed, too. A fair assumption anyway. Dive for cover and hope the gunman is not a clays champion. Once behind cover, draw and prepare to defend. Let them approach your position.

Hate to say it, but if the gunman had a shotgun, I might think twice about diving for cover. And that would probably decrease the odds of survival right there.

I guess that means a shotgun is the most intimidating weapon at close range, eh?

C.R.Sam · February 8, 2002, 04:01 PM

Get in the van, you probably dead.
Crowded lot, plenty of cover, go for cover.
Shotgun or handgun, same plan.

Sam

fix · February 8, 2002, 04:04 PM

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DONT SHOOT ME!!! PLEASE!!! HERE, TAKE MY WALLET!!! THERE'S LOTS OF...BANG BANG BANG BANG...BULLETS IN IT!!!

David Scott · February 9, 2002, 10:05 AM

I say run to the back of the van and around it, to cut off their line of fire quickly. Holler like mad for the cops. Disappear between the cars and try to work your way to the safety of the store. If they drive off, you're cool, but if they come after you, take cover behind the engine block of a vehicle and be ready to fire at them if they're closing in.

I wonder whether it would be a good idea to fire one shot into the asphalt. First, it would get attention, and second, it would tell the BGs you're armed, which might make them change their minds. Opinions?

tag · February 10, 2002, 01:07 AM

Given the situation, seem like the only thing to do is run. Get a good distance away, find good cover and draw my weapon. Watch for their next move.

Hemicuda · February 10, 2002, 04:27 PM

I always knew there was a reason that my gun rides in a Jak-Slide belt holster above my wallet...

offer them my wallet, and give them as many of the bullets in my gun as I need to to stop them...

Dive for cover if it seems prudent... (if there's decent cover a short"dive" away...)

draw and fire at the van's passengers, guy in back goes first, whomever presents a target second...

ETorbin · February 11, 2002, 07:31 AM

When I started this thread, I was thinking about the possibility of actually getting in the car with the bad guys. Particularly if they were armed with a shotgun.

Typically it is never a good idea to get in a car with someone and hope for a better situation. If they had a shotgun, and you believed that running would get you shot, it might actually put you in a better situation to get into the car.

If the bad guys assumed that you were not armed and therefore did not frisk you, the chances might be good that you could surprise them when in the van.

I guess you would be betting you life on the fact that they might not frisk you. On the other hand, if you ran, you would be betting that they wouldn't shoot you as soon as you move, and if you decided to draw and fire, you would be betting that their first shot or two would miss.

I'm not sure that you could survive this without a lot of luck.

CMichael · February 15, 2002, 09:08 AM

Run away.

If you get in the van your life is in grave danger.

If you resist you are in grave danger.

The only thing you can do is run away.

Michael

February 8, 2002, 12:00 PM	#1
ETorbin Member Join Date: October 17, 2001 Posts: 28	Kidnapping Scenario: You are alone it’s about 10:00 AM on a Saturday morning. You arrive at Home Depot (or any other store with a large parking lot) and are forced to park near the end of the lot about 200 feet to the door. After you have walked about 75 feet from your car and about 120 feet from the door, a full size van traveling perpendicular to you (which you noticed but was not unusual for the area) stops about 15 feet in front of you with the side of the van facing you. The door opens and a man in the back yells at you to get in while pointing a handgun at you. You are carrying in whatever way would be normal for you, and you assume that the bad guys don’t know. There are two men in the front of the van and only the one in the back. What do you do? 1. Draw your weapon and fight. 2. Run away while screaming bloody murder (or FIRE). 3. Get in the van and hope your weapon is not discovered. 4. Something else. If the bad guy had a shotgun or rifle instead of the handgun would your decision change? Does the fact that you are a man/woman change your opinion? I’m not sure if this scenario is survivable without gross incompetence from the bad guys.

February 8, 2002, 03:35 PM	#4
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	What runt said. Drawing under that circumstance would definitely get you shot. Complying would probably get you killed, too. A fair assumption anyway. Dive for cover and hope the gunman is not a clays champion. Once behind cover, draw and prepare to defend. Let them approach your position. Hate to say it, but if the gunman had a shotgun, I might think twice about diving for cover. And that would probably decrease the odds of survival right there. I guess that means a shotgun is the most intimidating weapon at close range, eh? __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

February 9, 2002, 10:05 AM	#7
David Scott Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2000 Posts: 2,456	I say run to the back of the van and around it, to cut off their line of fire quickly. Holler like mad for the cops. Disappear between the cars and try to work your way to the safety of the store. If they drive off, you're cool, but if they come after you, take cover behind the engine block of a vehicle and be ready to fire at them if they're closing in. I wonder whether it would be a good idea to fire one shot into the asphalt. First, it would get attention, and second, it would tell the BGs you're armed, which might make them change their minds. Opinions? __________________ "As I looked at my two young sons, each with his gun, and considered how much the safety of the party depended on these little fellows, I felt grateful to you, dear husband, for having acquainted them in childhood with the use of firearms." -- Elisabeth Robinson, in The Swiss Family Robinson by Johann Wyss

February 10, 2002, 04:27 PM	#9
Hemicuda Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2001 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,757	I always knew there was a reason that my gun rides in a Jak-Slide belt holster above my wallet... offer them my wallet, and give them as many of the bullets in my gun as I need to to stop them... Dive for cover if it seems prudent... (if there's decent cover a short"dive" away...) draw and fire at the van's passengers, guy in back goes first, whomever presents a target second... __________________ Hemi. gun and car collector. Rare cars, and rarer guns.

February 8, 2002, 12:12 PM	#2
Betty Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2000 Location: southern U.S. Posts: 1,807	Best case scenario: I'd duck (really, really fast) for cover between the other vehicles - I'm not going to draw on a guy who's already pointing a gun on me. After ducking down, I'd try to scoot away while drawing my gun, just in case he decides to get out of the van and come after me. I'd try to avoid a firefight if at all possible - there's probably bystanders around. If he comes after me, I'd have to shoot to defend myself. I'd probably be screaming at the top of my lungs the whole time. I would believe most kidnappers want a quick hit-and-go without drawing too much attention to themselves, and the screaming would also get other people's attention, and they would hopefully hit the pavement upon seeing the man with a gun. If the vehicle leaves, I'd try to get a license plate number and best description that I can. I'd sure as heck try not to submit and get into van - that's his territory, and I'm not going into the lion's den.

February 8, 2002, 01:28 PM	#3
striderteen Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2001 Location: Pasadena, California Posts: 590	Well, it's a crowded parking lot, so there should be plenty of cover in the form of cars. Put my hands up and take a step towards the van, then fake a trip and get behind cover ASAP. I'd shoot the gunman immediately and without hesitation -- he's a direct threat, and in any case he'll attack someone else if I don't put him down. Retreating isn't therefore really a viable option; I can get away, but the next victim might not. Once the gunman's down, I'd order the two in the van out...if they didn't come out I wouldn't go after them, but if they try to run I'll try to shoot out the van's tires. And, of course, I'd be yelling bloody murder throughout.

February 8, 2002, 04:01 PM	#5
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Get in the van, you probably dead. Crowded lot, plenty of cover, go for cover. Shotgun or handgun, same plan. Sam

February 8, 2002, 04:04 PM	#6
fix Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2001 Posts: 919	PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DONT SHOOT ME!!! PLEASE!!! HERE, TAKE MY WALLET!!! THERE'S LOTS OF...BANG BANG BANG BANG...BULLETS IN IT!!!

February 10, 2002, 01:07 AM	#8
tag Senior Member Join Date: September 3, 2001 Location: Middle TN Posts: 111	Given the situation, seem like the only thing to do is run. Get a good distance away, find good cover and draw my weapon. Watch for their next move.

February 11, 2002, 07:31 AM	#10
ETorbin Member Join Date: October 17, 2001 Posts: 28	When I started this thread, I was thinking about the possibility of actually getting in the car with the bad guys. Particularly if they were armed with a shotgun. Typically it is never a good idea to get in a car with someone and hope for a better situation. If they had a shotgun, and you believed that running would get you shot, it might actually put you in a better situation to get into the car. If the bad guys assumed that you were not armed and therefore did not frisk you, the chances might be good that you could surprise them when in the van. I guess you would be betting you life on the fact that they might not frisk you. On the other hand, if you ran, you would be betting that they wouldn't shoot you as soon as you move, and if you decided to draw and fire, you would be betting that their first shot or two would miss. I'm not sure that you could survive this without a lot of luck.

February 15, 2002, 09:08 AM	#11
CMichael Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2001 Location: MI Posts: 1,516	Run away. If you get in the van your life is in grave danger. If you resist you are in grave danger. The only thing you can do is run away. Michael