Are 20 gauge shotguns useless? - Page 3

BigJimP · March 10, 2009, 11:12 AM

There seems to be some confusion about gagues vs ounces of shot - and power( knockdown power, I guess ..).

Its traditional for a 12 ga to shoot 1 1/8 oz of shot - but by dropping a 12ga down to 1 oz (balistically its the same as a traditional 16ga load) - and if you drop the 12ga down to 7/8 oz then balistically its the same as a 20ga - to 3/4 oz same as a 28ga ...

7/8 oz of shot at 1200 fps coming out of a 12ga / performs and hits exactly as hard as 7/8 oz of shot at 1200 fps out of a 20ga. There is no difference in Ft-Lbs of energy / number of pellets, etc.

Personally, I like all of my hunting, sporting clays or skeet guns - in Over Unders, semi-autos - to be around 8 1/2 lbs ( even the .410 ) / so I add weight to all of my guns to get them to around the same point. The heavier the gun - for a given shell - the less recoil you get - so a little heavier gun is a good thing (if you can handle it). Yes, traditionally, most 20ga, or 28 ga etc ( were built on smaller receivers ) and were a little lighter, had shorter length of pulls, etc - but these days, gun mfg's are doing all kinds of things a little different.

I shoot a fair amount of 12ga - but I really like the 20, 28ga and the .410 as well .

prt · March 10, 2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

For an adult human at 10ft-25ft distance it is reasonable to say that a 12guage is overkill

I didn't know there was such a thing as "overkill" in a home defense situation.

Over-penetration, maybe, but not overkill

I think 20 gauges are good starting places for many adult women and a lot of young people who have never fired a shotgun previously.

I'm so close to buying a semi in 20 gauge because it's available while the 12 isn't due for another 4-6 weeks.

prt

roy reali · March 10, 2009, 08:04 PM

First off, I am not an expert shotgunner by any stretch of the imagination. I do know and have hunted with several guys that are very good wing shots. One guy in particualr rarely misses. He is good at hitting small flying birds to the point of being disgusting. All these good bird shooters I know use shotguns smaller then 12 gauge. In fact, that really good shot uses a 28 gauge over and under. Guys that I have hunted with that miss often like me seem to favor 12 gauge shotguns.

I know some of you will claim to know great 12 gauge hunters and lousy 20 gauge hunters. You might even claim that you never miss with a 12. I just wanted to state my observations.

One more point. If you can't hit flying objects with a smaller gauge shotgun, no 12 gauge will magically turn you into a Bob Knapp-like shooter.

ford pu · July 15, 2009, 12:38 PM

Any info or directions for the above will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

rustypigeon · July 15, 2009, 01:58 PM

If I am going to carry a gun in the field, I am going to get my 20 gauge. Although a pound or so doesn't sound like much, it makes a big difference when you are carrying it for a few hours.

When I am shooting skeet, I am going to get my 20 gauge. It's smaller frame just seems to point and swing effortlessly for me. By the way I load my skeet loads down to 3/4oz of shot for less recoil and cost effectiveness. I have even used these 3/4oz loads for 16yd trap with good results.

For home defense or to hunt turkeys, I am going to get my 12 gauge. And even then I am going to use a 2 3/4 inch shell.

~kev~ · July 15, 2009, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Why have a 20 gauge shotgun?

I bought my 13 year old daughter a 20 gauge because its a lot easier for her to shoot then a 12. If I were to have her shoot a 12, she may never pick up another shotgun ever again.

Even though I said "I bought my 13 year old daughter a 20 gauge" - it stays locked in my room and she does not have access to it. All of ym children have been taught gun safety and that starts with not touching a firearm unless an adult is present.

20 gauges have a lot of uses, especially for small framed people - including men and women. And recoil is a major factor in that decision.

neon · July 15, 2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Why have a 20 gauge shotgun? When you can just use a 12 gauge with reduce recoil rounds, or load your own and use less powder.

12 gauges are more common in the gun store and in many cases cheaper than their 20 gauge counterpart.

You cannot make the same argument for 12 gauge vs. 10 gauge because
10's are much more expensive and not as nearly as common.

Super Dave,

I am with you on this one. If you can handle the recoil of the 20 gauge
you can most certainly handle a 12 gauge.

~kev~ · July 15, 2009, 03:02 PM

Quote:

If you can handle the recoil of the 20 gauge you can most certainly handle a 12 gauge.

Tell that to my 13 year old daughter. She might have a few choice words for you.

She shot my 12 gauge and she said never again. But she can shoot the 20 gauge just fine.

I personally find the 20 gauge more comfortable to shoot then a 12.

People can not be lumped into a group. Just because you can shoot a 20, does not mean you can shoot a 12.

neon · July 15, 2009, 03:09 PM

Have you tried the "light" target loads? and a good recoil pad?

Russ5924 · July 15, 2009, 03:51 PM

I can't believe some of you people! Are some of you for real? Have you ever hunted all day lugging around a 12ga by the end of a day what little bit lighter 20ga feels a lot better. Have shot lots of different birds and deer with a 20ga. I have used a 410 for HD. Now if you want to say 16ga is useless maybe I could say so. But never 20ga I own three but also own four 12ga all have there use.

oneounceload · July 15, 2009, 05:17 PM

Recoil is recoil, and it can hurt. To insinuate that anyone should be able to handle the recoil of a 12 is juvenile. Recoil pads don't mean squat if the gun doesn't fit. Fit is first and foremost. Light loads help. While weight is great to tame recoil, when you're hiking up and down mountains all day chasing grouse, chukar and the like, every ounce counts. a 5.5# to 6# 28 or 20 will get the birds, and you'll be able to make a full day out of it. I've seen way too many folks with their 12's, that by the end of the day, are barely able to get their gun on the game, resulting in misses.......

For targets, make it heavy, for miles of walking, make it as light as possible......

wncchester · July 15, 2009, 05:30 PM

"Why have a 20 gauge shotgun? When you can just use a 12 gauge with reduce recoil rounds, or load your own and use less powder."

That's one of those "If you have to ask, you ain't gonna understand the answer" questions.

March 10, 2009, 08:04 PM	#53
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	Another Observation First off, I am not an expert shotgunner by any stretch of the imagination. I do know and have hunted with several guys that are very good wing shots. One guy in particualr rarely misses. He is good at hitting small flying birds to the point of being disgusting. All these good bird shooters I know use shotguns smaller then 12 gauge. In fact, that really good shot uses a 28 gauge over and under. Guys that I have hunted with that miss often like me seem to favor 12 gauge shotguns. I know some of you will claim to know great 12 gauge hunters and lousy 20 gauge hunters. You might even claim that you never miss with a 12. I just wanted to state my observations. One more point. If you can't hit flying objects with a smaller gauge shotgun, no 12 gauge will magically turn you into a Bob Knapp-like shooter.

July 15, 2009, 12:38 PM	#54
ford pu Junior Member Join Date: July 15, 2009 Posts: 1	20ga. Round Ball Load(s) Any info or directions for the above will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

July 15, 2009, 03:51 PM	#60
Russ5924 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Posts: 1,874	I can't believe some of you people! Are some of you for real? Have you ever hunted all day lugging around a 12ga by the end of a day what little bit lighter 20ga feels a lot better. Have shot lots of different birds and deer with a 20ga. I have used a 410 for HD. Now if you want to say 16ga is useless maybe I could say so. But never 20ga I own three but also own four 12ga all have there use. __________________ Russ5924

March 10, 2009, 11:12 AM	#51
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	There seems to be some confusion about gagues vs ounces of shot - and power( knockdown power, I guess ..). Its traditional for a 12 ga to shoot 1 1/8 oz of shot - but by dropping a 12ga down to 1 oz (balistically its the same as a traditional 16ga load) - and if you drop the 12ga down to 7/8 oz then balistically its the same as a 20ga - to 3/4 oz same as a 28ga ... 7/8 oz of shot at 1200 fps coming out of a 12ga / performs and hits exactly as hard as 7/8 oz of shot at 1200 fps out of a 20ga. There is no difference in Ft-Lbs of energy / number of pellets, etc. Personally, I like all of my hunting, sporting clays or skeet guns - in Over Unders, semi-autos - to be around 8 1/2 lbs ( even the .410 ) / so I add weight to all of my guns to get them to around the same point. The heavier the gun - for a given shell - the less recoil you get - so a little heavier gun is a good thing (if you can handle it). Yes, traditionally, most 20ga, or 28 ga etc ( were built on smaller receivers ) and were a little lighter, had shorter length of pulls, etc - but these days, gun mfg's are doing all kinds of things a little different. I shoot a fair amount of 12ga - but I really like the 20, 28ga and the .410 as well .

July 15, 2009, 01:58 PM	#55
rustypigeon Member Join Date: September 5, 2006 Location: PA Posts: 18	If I am going to carry a gun in the field, I am going to get my 20 gauge. Although a pound or so doesn't sound like much, it makes a big difference when you are carrying it for a few hours. When I am shooting skeet, I am going to get my 20 gauge. It's smaller frame just seems to point and swing effortlessly for me. By the way I load my skeet loads down to 3/4oz of shot for less recoil and cost effectiveness. I have even used these 3/4oz loads for 16yd trap with good results. For home defense or to hunt turkeys, I am going to get my 12 gauge. And even then I am going to use a 2 3/4 inch shell.

July 15, 2009, 03:09 PM	#59
neon Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2009 Posts: 196	Have you tried the "light" target loads? and a good recoil pad?

July 15, 2009, 05:17 PM	#61
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Recoil is recoil, and it can hurt. To insinuate that anyone should be able to handle the recoil of a 12 is juvenile. Recoil pads don't mean squat if the gun doesn't fit. Fit is first and foremost. Light loads help. While weight is great to tame recoil, when you're hiking up and down mountains all day chasing grouse, chukar and the like, every ounce counts. a 5.5# to 6# 28 or 20 will get the birds, and you'll be able to make a full day out of it. I've seen way too many folks with their 12's, that by the end of the day, are barely able to get their gun on the game, resulting in misses....... For targets, make it heavy, for miles of walking, make it as light as possible......

July 15, 2009, 05:30 PM	#62
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"Why have a 20 gauge shotgun? When you can just use a 12 gauge with reduce recoil rounds, or load your own and use less powder." That's one of those "If you have to ask, you ain't gonna understand the answer" questions.